[Deck] Death and Taxes

[Finn]

I think that in the main deck, you must have either Grunts or tutorable Batterskull. Our guys are very susceptible to anti-Thalia splash damage, and I feel that this policy hedges your bet on seeing stuff like Dread of Night and Sulfur Elemental. Considering Batterskull is one card vs. Grunts which are three, my current inclusion is largely one of arithmetic.

[Curby]

Mangara does seem slow, and I'd probably board her out against some decks. That said, running 2x of anything in this deck just seems too inconsistent. IMO 3+ or 0 for anything that can't be searched for.

I'm wondering though; when do you side out Mangara? I'm thinking combo (incl Elves) and Dredge where you'd want more specific hate instead. Not sure about Reanimator.

Considering Batterskull is one card vs. Grunts which are three, my current inclusion is largely one of arithmetic.

This is one of my main arguments for Batterskull in decks that are boarding out Grunts. You still want some critter that's naturally 4+, and you want that capability with a minimal expenditure of deck slots.

[_erbs_]

@kirbysdl
Its true that anything less than 3 in this deck is almost impossible to search in a game, but I feel i can't cut anything more in the main deck. Im considering wisp to be 3 so i could fit in the 3rd mangara.

I don't bored out mangara against reanimator what i bored out are the equips stoneforge and mother of runes. Sometimes when your opponent is forced to play show and tell landing a mangara is game breaking or if your opponent was able to cast an iona, and your only out is vial, vial in mangara and grab the win.

Right now the 2 gunts in the main feel enough though i would like to push it to 3 but sometimes having too much grunts in your hand sucks. So right now im keeping it 2 main and 1 sb.

@Honor of the Pure
I've tested that route and surprisingly its a good strategy if you could execute it. Right now im running 3 honor and 2 tutors. In what MU do i use them well, before it was used mainly against rug, but now im able to use it against mav. Which sometimes becomes a matter of who gets a mother of runes online will most likely win the game especially when jitte hits the board.

Mav and DT have the same utility cards (mom, sfm & wasteland), thats why i decided to try a different approach against them.

Before what i do is just board in 1 more grunts and 2 pte / oust against them, but as playtesting shows when a mom gets online and a sfm comes its all downhill if you don't have a revoker or someway of dealing with the equips and mom.

With honor approach i go aggro mode against them. What i do now is bored in 2 tutor 3 honor 2 pte 1 grunt 2 pithing needles and board out the ff: 1 sfm, 2 mangara, 1 sofi & 4 thalia.

Landing 1-2 honor and with DTs evasive creatures your clock becomes fast before mav can out muscle you with kotr or terravore.

The honor strat is nice against gobs aswell as he is most likely going to board in artifact hate same goes with other decks.

[Quantum]

Monday legacy at Card Kingom; meta has some pretty good players.

4x Karakas
4x Wasteland
4x Rishadan Port
10x Plains

4x Mom
4x Stoneforge
4x Serra Avenger
3x Jotun Grunt
3x Thalia
3x Phyrexian Revoker
3x Flickerwisp
3x Mangara
4x Swords
4x Vial
1x Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow

SIDEBOARD
4x Enlightened Tutor
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Thorn of Amethyst
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Wheel of Sun and Moon
1x Stony Silence
1x Path to Exile
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x COP: Red


Round 1: Shawn with RUG Delve - Shawn top 8'ed the SCG Open in June
Game 1: He gets a little land screwed, and Thalia screwed. Gets to the point where he stifles my Vial ticking up. After he finally gets rid of Thalia, he's tapped out, I bring in Mangara get rid of his one colored source (Trop), Waste his Waste, drop a Grunt (making his 'Goose useless). We're both on no lands, but I have a Flickerwisp and a Grunt in play to a shrinking Goose.

Sideboard: Still new to the deck, and haven't actually played RUG Delver.
+1 Path, +1 Thorn, +1 Ensnaring Bridge, +2 Enlightened Tutor

Game 2: Slow start, but get to taxing pretty quickly after a mull to 5. A very, very close game, but he's unable to flip Delvers to block Serra Avenger. After Swordsing 2 Goyfs and Pathing an unflipped Delver, Serra Avenger eventually gets her man.
1-0, 2-0

Round 2: Adam with UW Top Stoneblade
Game 1: I have a slow start, dropping Phyrexian Revoker on turn 2, naming Jace (thought he was on Esperblade, as he was last time I played him), only to see Top drop next turn. Not much to say, other than every time I built pressure, he either miracle'd Terminus, or hit my dude with Swords. Made my most egregious misplay of the night when I forgot to pay upkeep with a Grunt, but even then, it would've been swept that turn anyways. Thought about Flicker-ing Revoker to name Top, but who knows. Eventually scooped to save time when he had Batterskull and Jace active, despite me having a few outs.

Sideboard: +1 Revoker, +1 Needle, +1 Oblivion Ring, +1 Metamorph, +2 E. Tutors
-4 Swords (he only ran 2 V. Cliques last time, I think he had 4 Snapcasters this time as well, w/no Jitte), -1 Stoneforge, -1 Serra Avenger

Game 2: Close one, but more of the same, except this time I got wrecked by EE. There were 3 to 4 turns where I could have swung the tide, but he was able to top for Terminus. Made minor punt where I played a revoker with a SOLAS in play, where he had Jace+Batterskull with Jitte equipped, named Jace instead of Jitte; might have allowed for an extra couple of turns where I could have forced Jace to bounce instead of fate-seal, but whatever.

Great games, but not seeing early Thalia, Mom or Vial really hurt.
1-1, 2-2

Billy with Esper Stoneblade
Billy is probably even newer to the format than I am, and had just purchased Scrublands/Seas that hadn't arrived, so he was on shocks for half his land-base.

Game 1: Tug-of-war... he had a hand disruption heavy start, of the Thoughtseize variety. Combined with his Shocks and he hurt himself pretty badly at the start of the game. Eventually I was able to get to parity, except for the Jace in play. I had a Vial on three and a SOFI, but he was fatesealing me every turn. Couldn't get to Flickerwisp, he Jace-ultimate'd me.

Sideboard: +1 Revoker, +1 Oblivion Ring, +1 Metamorph, +1 E. Tutor
-3 Swords, -1 Serra Avenger

Game 2: Great game. I was on a mull to 6, with one land/Vial/Mom/bunch of two drops, but he kept a mono-removal hand, and thankfully, after drawing a second land, he Pathed a couple dudes, so land was never an issue, and actually was HUGE later on. He got Jace down, but I O-Ringed it; he dropped Batterskull but then I Flickered the token, and was able to Waste enough of his landbase, and triple port him to prevent him from casting either another Jace or recasting the Batterskull. Eventually he started on the triple Snapcaster beatdown, but I was able to get Thalia and SOFI down. He wasted a ton of removal trying to get rid of Thalia, but with Vial on 2/3 and Karakas, I was able to pull all sorts of tricky shenanigans; favorite play was after having to bounce Thalia using Karakas, casting Flickerwisp (just prior to Vial on 3) resetting Karakas, and then casting SOLAS. Eventually got there, but time ran out.
1-1-1, 3-3

Round 4: ??? with Dredge
Game 1: Knew he was on Dredge, kept a very quick hand including Grunt. He was able to Breakthrough Grunt lock pretty effectively after a couple of turns, but eventually I got Jitte counters, killed a Revoker removing all 4 Bridges in response to EOT Ichorid trigger. Never expected that...

Sideboard: -3 Mangara, -4 Swords
+4 E. Tutors, +1 Wheel of Sun/Moon, +1 Tormod's Crypt, +1 Revoker

Game 2: I mulliganed twice, he was able to get through Tormod's Crypt and Wasteland for his 1 land. :(

Game 3: He mulled to five, I kept one-lander with Wheel of Sun/Moon. Never was able to cast it, but he didn't dredge anything worth anything, so despite 2x Cabal Therapy, I won.

2-1-1, 5-4

Love the deck, love the format, will stay true, even if I have just acquired all the pieces to Goblins. ;)

[Finn]

Quantum, I can't go into detail here because this is just a quick post. But briefly, don't side in any tutors against RUG, Miracles, Stoneblade, or any other deck that smells like control.

Thx for the report.

[Barbed Blightning]

Spoiler from RtR:

Judge's Familiar

Creature - Bird
Flying
Sacrifice Judge's Familiar : Counter target instant or sorcery spell unless its controller pays 1.
1/1

Seems like it might be good for us, but I'm not totally convinced. Thoughts?

[hyggli]

i think we are the only deck in legacy that can succesfully run it.

We need test though. And I can't imagine what to cut

[tsabo_tavoc]

i think we are the only deck in legacy that can succesfully run it.

We need test though. And I can't imagine what to cut

I would play 4x Birds, and cut Avenger or Grunt.

[hyggli]

Guys I'm heading to a pretty big tournament this sunday.

I'm searching for something to side vs Miracle. If I cannot find something, I think I'll try with some ghostway or such ahah.

The meta I'm expecting would likely be something like miracles(mostly without sfm), canadian, esperblade, snt/lands/dredge. I'd like to set up for it and the list I thought about is something like this

11 Plains
3 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland

3 Mangara of corondor
4 Serra avenger
4 Mother of runes
4 Stoneforge mystic
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Thalia, guardian of thraben
4 Flickerwisp

4 Aether vial
4 Swords to plowshares
1 Umezawa's jitte
1 Sword of light and shadow
1 Batterskull

sb:
2 Jotun grunt(canadian,dredge,lands)
1 Sword of fire and ice(canadian mostly,goblins)
1 Umezawa's Jitte(random goblins,maverick,merfolk,mirror,uw sfm)
1 Sword of light and shadow(esper,miracle)
2 Wheel of sun and moon(lands,dredge,random reanimator)
2 Relic of progenitus(lands,dredge,random reanimator,maverick)
2 Gut shot(maverick,goblins,lingering)
4 Path to exile(canadian,random nic fit)

any advice?

there will be no storm nor random combos, so I'm cutting canonist, although it's ok vs canadian or snapcaster.

[Quantum]

Quantum, I can't go into detail here because this is just a quick post. But briefly, don't side in any tutors against RUG, Miracles, Stoneblade, or any other deck that smells like control.

Thx for the report.

Thanks for the tip. Sideboarding is probably my weakest part of playing with the deck.

[Barbed Blightning]

My friend and I came up with a theoretical D&T list, employing the new Familiar in the Side:

Main
4 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Serra Avenger
4 Flickerwisp
3 Mangara of Corondor

4 Æther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow

4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Karakas
10 Plains

Sideboard
1 Batterskull
3 Jötun Grunt
3 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Judge's Familiar
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Oblivion Ring


We justify the 10-plains manabase because our curve is essentially two. When we commit to 3 mana in this deck, we're going for the lock-win (Mangara, Flickerwisp) or we're suiting up a beater for the win (SoFI, SoLaS)

Here's the theory for the SB:

Batterskull shores up (that is, automatically wins) our Tribal matchups, and helps Burn/UR with the lifelink and fast clock.

Grunt is obviously our best Tempo Thresh hate. Plus, he has a big butt to take a lot of burn. With this side, we'll never worry about leaving home without him. He also becomes much better with the time that the cage buys us.

Canonist as a 3-of means that she can be draw reliably enough, esp. with our 4 MD Thalia, and if Storm decks rise in popularity she can even become a four of.

Familiar is definitely not a mainboard card, not while creature decks are popular. However, I've been convinced that the Bird is spectacular tech. Brought in for out Combo or Control matches, he adds an amazing amount of Tax--and can supplement our Flying crew even more. 4 feels right, esp. since we'll most likely be switching STP's out in our Storm matchup, and we'll definitely want him first turn in that matchup.

Which leaves Cage and O-Ring. My intent for either is that their numbers can be adjusted depending on your meta. More Dredge and Reanimator obviously warrants more Cages, more Show&Tell decks means Ring is better.

I would also make an argument for Surgical Extraction--maverick runs it, and the added effect of it being able to grab nonbasic lands means that it can also be its own kind of Tax--on top of allowing for us to take a peek at our opponent's hand. It's only problem is Thalia interference, and that it can be spell pierce'd.

With the addition of Familiar, I think it's time we consider dropping the E Tutor board. The Bird catches much on his own, and with this proposed SB we still get to keep all the tools we have determined to be essential. We will lose the autowin cards, like Wheel of Sun & Moon or CoP: Red. We gain a significant amount of power, however, while maintaining a consistent deck armed to the teeth for each round of our matches.

[colo]

I would also make an argument for Surgical Extraction--maverick runs it, and the added effect of it being able to grab nonbasic lands means that it can also be its own kind of Tax--on top of allowing for us to take a peek at our opponent's hand. It's only problem is Thalia interference, and that it can be spell pierce'd.

Everyone siding in Spell Pierce against D&T is very welcome to sit down against me on the other side of the table, really. ;)

[Barbed Blightning]

Everyone siding in Spell Pierce against D&T is very welcome to sit down against me on the other side of the table, really. ;)

You'd be surprised by the number of Tempo Thresh opponents I've faced who keep it in in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. I'm always flabbergasted by it.

[Justin]

When on the play for g2/3, keeping Spell Pierce in the deck is probably the right call against D&T because it counters an early Aether Vial. When on the draw, however, it should definitely be boarded out.

[lochlan]

from Cairo just won SCG Portland with Death and Taxes! Go go Portland magic! Check out the list here: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=49260

[Barbed Blightning]

And stomped the hell out of miracleblade. Damn that felt good to watch!

Congratulations to Cairo!

[berksowl]

As far as I know there were two of us, of 130ish players, playing D&T. It's awesome that Ben won it. He definitely knew what he was doing, and he seems like a cool bloke. I'm less experienced with the deck, but it treated me well, and I finished 20th, though partly due to a charitable final round concession.

My deck differed from Ben's in that I played two main Jotun Grunts, and he did not. And he had Gut Shot and Leonin Bola in his side. I'm real curious to hear how those cards performed.

Anyway, with what's coming from RtR, I feel exited. But then maybe with a SCG win maybe we'll stay seeing some hate.

[from Cairo]

My deck differed from Ben's in that I played two main Jotun Grunts, and he did not. And he had Gut Shot and Leonin Bola in his side. I'm real curious to hear how those cards performed.

Thanks for the props Lochlan, Barbed Blightning and Berksowl.

The Gut Shots did a bit of work for me against Elves and Maverick, which were the matches they were intended for. Offing Llanowar/Wirewood and Mother. They also struck me as a solid out to Grims which didn't end up being relevant, dodging Team Italia and beating the RUG deck playing them in games 1 and 2, they'd have probably come in game 3 had it gone to that.

The Leonin Bola was borrowed tech, from Mr. Thomas Enevoldsen, as a viable target against Show and Tell, for SFMs. The deck doesn't have space in the SB to pull the SFMs for relevant hate, but I figured with 1 Bola I'd have an option for shutting down Emarkul or Griselbrand. I managed to dodge Show and Tell all tournament so it wasn't boarded in.

I didn't take notes, but as far as matches go, I played versus:
Esper 2-1
Lands 2-1
RUG 2-0
Elves 2-1
Maverick 1-1-1
Miracles 2-1
Goblins ID
Merfolk 2-1
RUG 2-1
Miracles 2-0

I felt like this deck had great game against fair decks going into the event and that played out as expected. Thalia with Karakas as Rescue protection was MVP of the event although really the MD felt like it all pulled it's weight all day. The Sword of Fire and Ice wasn't tutored much at all, but came online drawn naturally a couple games. It may be unnecessary, but I dreaded 4 SFMs with only 2 equips and not getting value via fail to find. The Bola and Manriki-Gusari maybe could have been more powerful cards, but while lesser in power being tutorable options was their major appeal.

Going into RTR I'm interested in testing Judge's Familiar, at least out of the SB, and who knows what else is in store.

[Claymore]

is there an SCG write up for this tournament? I can't find anything but decklists and top 8 profiles

[Barbed Blightning]

@Cairo: How was Fiend Hunter? In which matches did you bring him in?