[Deck] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)

[catmint]

Don't think its good and it can't replace a land (in my 18 land manabase). Why would be better than something else in a spell slot. if you want late game value you can run something like Sylvan Library or snapcaster mage (which I am not a fan of).

[Purgatory]

RUG players trying to waste-surgical in the mirror is probably because some people who got tired loosing with monoblack buying a tier deck and are still convinced it is a good tech.

Yes, works once in a while and you "blow the opponent out", but it often does not work, because lands are in play or people play around it... or it simply does not matter because what's on board kills you. A counter, a removal, a threat or a filter spell provide straight up value and not some narrow nonsense.

In all my years of playing RUG and decks similar like it in both Vintage and Legacy, I've lost to the "Extraction/Extirpate your lands hurr"-plan once, and I know a lot about losing with these decks. In this case, my opponent chump blocked a threshed Mongoose and then Extirpated my Tropicals post-combat, taking me down to 6 cards in the graveyard, which killed the Mongoose. This was before Delver, so I had no way of casting any more threats - and didn't draw my 4 Bolts and a Fire // Ice

[Mark Sun]

Let's talk about Cephalid Coliseum.

Actually a fan of this card, and I think it has potential, and I debated on replacing a Spell Pierce with it this past weekend. Just helps with card quality, is all.

[lambert101]

I have been having some good test results with:

4 Mongoose
4 Delver
3 Goyf
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Fow
4 Pierce
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Forked Bolt
4 Wasteland
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Sclading Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest

3 Submerge
2 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Hidden Gibbons
3 Pyroblast
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Ancient Grudge

Boarding Plans:

VS Maverick
On Draw:
-4 Daze

+ 1 Ancient Grudge
+ 3 Submerge

On Play:
-4 Stifle

+ 1 Ancient Grudge
+ 3 Submerge

VS RUG
-4 Force of Will
-3 Forked Bolt
-2 Daze

+3 Submerge
+3 Hidden Gibbons
+3 Pyroblast

Vs. Control:
-3 Forked Bolt
-4 Daze
-1 Spell Pierce

+2 Sulfuric Vortex
+3 Hidden Gibbons
+3 Pyroblast


Took last couple pages of information are brought it together. I really like the Hidden Gibbons tech from RaNDoMxGeSTuReS.

[lordofthepit]

For those of you who play Life from the Loam, how have you liked it? I've run it in the sideboard as well as in the mainboard, and even in the matches where I think it would be good, I end up spending too much time durdling with it. Definitely a bit disappointed.

[Sturtzilla]

Actually a fan of this card (Cephalid Coliseum), and I think it has potential, and I debated on replacing a Spell Pierce with it this past weekend. Just helps with card quality, is all.

I think that it could be a good card in our mid to late game. It would serve to filter some unnecessary lands or dead soft counters. I think that is it worth a shot. I would rather topdeck it than another land or daze, say after turn three or four.

For those of you who play Life from the Loam, how have you liked it? I've run it in the sideboard as well as in the mainboard, and even in the matches where I think it would be good, I end up spending too much time durdling with it. Definitely a bit disappointed.

I played with Life from the Loam in my board for quite a long time. I never really found it all that useful. In games where you are getting Wastelanded, you might be able to cast it, but it has been my experience that is very rarely the case. Additionally Waste-locking your opponent is difficult unless you are playing the mirror. In this case you need a LftL, a Wasteland, and two more land one of which is green. That is a pretty specific set of four cards and it could still end in you losing the game to an early resolved threat.

I only ever ran it as a one of. I would hardly ever draw it and never really needed it when I did end up with it in hand. I have since taken it out of my board. I think Stifling opposing Wastelands is generally a better play as it fits more into our Instant speed suite of spells and essentially answers the same issue. I never really liked tapping (or even tapping out) for a LftL, I just always felt as if I was leaving my self open to be blown out.

[Sturtzilla]

Additionally, I figured that I should mention that I managed to win locals this week. I went 4-0-1. My record was the following: Goblins (2-1), Aggro Loam (2-1), BRG Storm (2-1), U/W Miracles (1-1-1), and Stoneblade/Miracles Hybrid (2-1). Ended 1st overall, which was good for my next tourney free and $35 in store credit. I think that the sideboard I was working with could still use a bit of work, but that is almost always how I feel. I had changed my maindeck a bit and had worked a playset of Stifles in... I was pleased with them. Stifling Wastelands, Miracle triggers, and Storm triggers just makes me smile.

[ImpinAintEasy]

Agree with the above post. I took a similar approach this past weekend at Gen Con and if not for an unfortunate turn of events, would have made Top 8 on Saturday.

List: Same one that catmint posted, except -1 Spell Pierce, +1 Sylvan Library. Scary how close it was, actually. Also debated on cutting another Spell Pierce for a Cephalid Coliseum, but didn't want to last minute.

SB:

4 Submerge
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Flusterstorm
1 Envelop
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Rough/Tumble

Only change in the list was that for the Prelim on Friday I ran -1 Flusterstorm, +1 Red Elemental Blast. After that event, Flusterstorm was insane for me so I made the small switch.


Top 4 Prelim:
2-0 Sneak Attack
2-1 Omniscience Combo
2-0 Esper Blade
2-1 Goblins
2-1 Elves
ID
ID
Top 8: 2-0 Goblins (different player)
Top 4: 0-2 Dredge

Expected results, because I chose to forego GY hate to gain an edge against tribal (Rough/Tumble) and have something better to fight combo with the extra Flusterstorms.


Legacy Champs:
2-0 MUC
2-0 Hypergenesis
2-1 Affinity
2-1 Esper Blade
2-1 Sneak Show (eventual tournament winner)
1-2 Lands (Bobby who made Top 8, same playgroup)
2-0 Omniscience Combo
2-0 Mirror

Then... At this point I'm 7-1 in the tournament, 4th place with 71% breakers going into the last round and I thought I could draw in, but based on how the pairings are (which I'm unfamiliar with, not topdown), I get paired against another 7-1 in my bracket who has 60% breaks, so I'm forced to play it out. It's the guy who was playing the Bant Maverick deck, so after seeing one red spell the entire match, I unfortunately pack it in.

0-2 Bant Maverick

Ended up in 10th place, wondering what happened. Not really tournament report worthy, but overall I still thought the list was a good choice for the event (and the weekend itself) and is pretty solid going forward, especially with combo making somewhat of a comeback here.

First of all, grats on the 10th place finish.
Second of all, was nice meeting you!
Third of all, wish I would of took your advice on the stifles md and no gy in board. I ended up playing 1 stifle md, which ironically saved me at round 3.

My weekend wasn't the greatest unfortunately. Got 13th in the friday prelim, same one u got 3rd in. Saturday tournament was terrible.
Beat UW Counter Miracles Round 1 2-1 after dropping game 1
Beat UW Counter Miracles again (Chris Renner) after dropping game 1
Was feeilng pretty good with my game play coming back in both games
Lost round 3 to Caleb D. with Nic Fit, got him down to 8 life with double goose on board and him topdecking. Next turn he rips green sun, ooze took over from there. Really wish I had 4 stifles, took them out 5 mins before tourney.
Lost round 4 to Mono Red Stax - had 3 turns to find a bolt with 3 cantrips and shuffle effect, no luck, welder got there and game 2 I had to mull to 4 for land.

Oh well got some serious trading done, turned a bunch of crap into 3 jaces which was cool.

Twas cool meeting ya though!

Onto Coliseum - can't replace a land with it if you are running 18, in a 19 land build I could easily see it being the 19th land. I'll test it out on modo and get back to ya!

[Koby]

@Impin
I am disappoint you cut Stifle. *tsktsk*

@Mark Sun/catmint
Glad to see the deck you guys are piloting is returning back to Stifle roots. Stifle is mighty strong in the metagame, even more with all the extra triggers AEther Vial is providing.

[NidStyles]

I think that it could be a good card in our mid to late game. It would serve to filter some unnecessary lands or dead soft counters. I think that is it worth a shot. I would rather topdeck it than another land or daze, say after turn three or four.



I played with Life from the Loam in my board for quite a long time. I never really found it all that useful. In games where you are getting Wastelanded, you might be able to cast it, but it has been my experience that is very rarely the case. Additionally Waste-locking your opponent is difficult unless you are playing the mirror. In this case you need a LftL, a Wasteland, and two more land one of which is green. That is a pretty specific set of four cards and it could still end in you losing the game to an early resolved threat.

I only ever ran it as a one of. I would hardly ever draw it and never really needed it when I did end up with it in hand. I have since taken it out of my board. I think Stifling opposing Wastelands is generally a better play as it fits more into our Instant speed suite of spells and essentially answers the same issue. I never really liked tapping (or even tapping out) for a LftL, I just always felt as if I was leaving my self open to be blown out.

It's been my experience in the past two weeks that LftL really is only good with Thought Scour builds. I think it works better in that build than the Gitaxian Probe or traditional Spell Snare builds. I run it MD as the Mirror is a very likely matchup for me here, and it's along with 3 Thought Scour.

I was running 3 Gitaxian Probes and a single Spell Snare until about two weeks ago when the mirror started to reappear. I've had to go up to 19 lands again to reliably support it as well. I had been running 19 before until I saw that there were no other Thresh decks in my area until this other guy got his Goyfs like two weeks ago. 18 lands with LftL just always seems shaky at best.

I'm now running for land:
4 Trops
3 Volcs
8 Blue fetches
4 Wastelands

Has everyone else dropping the whole Ooze plan as well? I never find the time or mana to be able to use the guy, and at best he eat's a bolt that would have otherwise gone to my face. I still like the GSZ tech though.

[catmint]

In all my years of playing RUG and decks similar like it in both Vintage and Legacy, I've lost to the "Extraction/Extirpate your lands hurr"-plan once, and I know a lot about losing with these decks. In this case, my opponent chump blocked a threshed Mongoose and then Extirpated my Tropicals post-combat, taking me down to 6 cards in the graveyard, which killed the Mongoose. This was before Delver, so I had no way of casting any more threats - and didn't draw my 4 Bolts and a Fire // Ice

Good to hear someone else made similar experiences. Gerry Thompson in his recent Article "Preparing for Legacy MOCS" writes "Also, using Wasteland + Surgical Extraction in the mirror is a viable strategy if you think you are outclassed. " ... At this point I will quit my premium membership which I only have for legacy articles. Not that many articles published anyway and besides stupid "combo/card hyping" I don't like the "group think syndrom" which has as a result that there is no real debate, but somone comes to a conclusion and then everyone does it and thinks its the nuts. Since people are netdecking SCG lists it brought up the following non-sense:

- 4 snapcaster mage instead of 4 Nimble Mongoose (popular for a while, just horrible)

- Cutting Stifle for 3 Thought Scour and +1 Land (pupolar now,...commented already)

- 1 random Ooze (of course good at narrow times but most of the times mediocre or bad and does not fit the general tempo game plan)

Only articles I really find good and enjoy on SCG are Carstens and those are for free anyway. :)


As for Life from the Loam. Also a typical card for control decks seeking inevitability. Only situation where it is good is if we can wastelock an opponent in the mirror on an empty board. However he can still keep fetchlands and play a threat, so just wastelands will never be enough. That situation is very uncommon, so I would not cut anything from my post-board 60 for a loam in the mirror. Only other situation where loam would be super good is vs. 12 Post: Wastelock and dredge ancient grudge to the yard to kill their pesky artifacts (some play pithing needle for wasteland)...

[xfxf]

catmint, I just wanted to drop in to say I agree with you 100%.

[wcm8]

I ran a few test runs over the last two days with the Stifle configuration and didn't lose a single match except once to Dredge (which is expected, cutting GY hate after all).

The way I see it, GY hate might just not be worth the cost of eating into your SB slots when there are other popular matchups that require more attention. So you pretty much auto-lose to Dredge, but other 'graveyard-y' decks like Reanimator are still manageable with all of the counter-magic. Even then, Dredge might not be an auto-scoop if you get somewhat lucky with early Delvers, countermagic, and Stifles on their relevant triggers. You can also kill a Delver to exile their Bridges.

Regarding the 19th land: I'm not a fan of Cephalid Coliseum. I see how it can provide mid/late-game value, but you never want it to be your sole blue source and the life-loss can be relevant. I think either the 4th Volcanic or Tropical Island is a better choice. Against decks NOT playing Wasteland, you can SB out the 19th land to draw into more business spells.

[catmint]

I had a similar thought. I even win a G1 against dredge from time to time. However I would go down to 3 surgical extraction like i saw others playing instead of 0 Gy hate spots, since surgical can be used in many other matchups to a certain extent.

Concerning SB things I am testing atm:

- Sulfuric Vortex. So far provided some kills against control
I feel somehow naked without ancient grudge. Also I do not to board a lot versus goblins where all the countermagic is just so bad, so I am still undecided.

- Creature hate:
I was playing with 1 single Sulfur Elemental to respect lingering souls. Sulruf is of course narrow, so I am thinking about running 1 Hurly-Burly, Rain of Embers, Simoon or Yamabushi's Storm instead. It does not do much against Merfolk/Goblins (still more than the Elemental), but has a similar effect against Maverick & Lingering souls while providing random utility against elves, enchantress, bitterblossom, narcomoeba, Elspeth, zombie.dec

[Purgatory]

It's been my experience in the past two weeks that LftL really is only good with Thought Scour builds. I think it works better in that build than the Gitaxian Probe or traditional Spell Snare builds. I run it MD as the Mirror is a very likely matchup for me here, and it's along with 3 Thought Scour.

I was running 3 Gitaxian Probes and a single Spell Snare until about two weeks ago when the mirror started to reappear. I've had to go up to 19 lands again to reliably support it as well. I had been running 19 before until I saw that there were no other Thresh decks in my area until this other guy got his Goyfs like two weeks ago. 18 lands with LftL just always seems shaky at best.

I'm now running for land:
4 Trops
3 Volcs
8 Blue fetches
4 Wastelands

Has everyone else dropping the whole Ooze plan as well? I never find the time or mana to be able to use the guy, and at best he eat's a bolt that would have otherwise gone to my face. I still like the GSZ tech though.

In your manabase, I'd rather go 4 Volcs, 3 Trops, provided you play with the standard 8 Green Dudes, 6 Burn spells build. Even though you have technically more green cards than red, I find myself always fetching Volcanics first if you play Delver, simply because with a threat on the board, having red mana for Bolt is a lot more appealing than having green mana for more dudes. Also, in games two and three you often need red mana to cast hate, like Blasts or Ancient Grudge.

[NidStyles]

In your manabase, I'd rather go 4 Volcs, 3 Trops, provided you play with the standard 8 Green Dudes, 6 Burn spells build. Even though you have technically more green cards than red, I find myself always fetching Volcanics first if you play Delver, simply because with a threat on the board, having red mana for Bolt is a lot more appealing than having green mana for more dudes. Also, in games two and three you often need red mana to cast hate, like Blasts or Ancient Grudge.

I see what you're saying. The problem I have had is that now everyone is actively hating on the Trops, so I have been playing around it by keeping a Trop in my hand during most games. I cut Fire/Ice to a 1 of and honestly most of the time I never want to use it. My meta is literally like 8 Griselbrand decks of both variety one Maverick deck and 2 Thresh decks other than mine. So the Green mana is used more than Red. Red really only offers bolt and REB for me. For the Griselbrand decks I have 3x Gilded Drakes out of the board.

On the GY hate, I have seen the same thing, most of the time I am usually just dead to Dredge, and that does not really both me. I can't justify trying to push this deck to have a positive matchup against Dredge by killing the matchups against everything else. In the BUG control matchup LftL is an all-star IMO. I still haven't figured out the Miracle matchup without just siding EE which just slows the deck down, and a lot of the time you can race them outright.

[BKclassic]

This is were I am for MODO right now:

18 lands
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Preordain

3 Spell Pierce
3 Spell Snare
4 Daze
4 Force of Will

4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fire/Ice

SB
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Rough/Tumble
2 Ancient Grudge
4 Submerge
2 Envelop
1 Grafdigger's Cage

-The MODO metagame is lousy with aggro right now, hence the 3 Rough/Tumble in the SB. I like Rough way more than other options, Grim Lavamancer is too slow and makes us vulnerable to Wasteland, Sulfur Elemental is too expensive and narrow, Cursed Totem is okay, but some players run answers to it and Rough has broader applications (Dredge, Belcher).

-Holding up mana, hoping for my opponent to run into Stifle is just not were I really want to be with this deck, I want to be aggressive as possible. As such, I am running Preordain right now. I think it is simply better than Thought Scour, which is great with Mongoose, but that's pretty much it besides Sumberge in the SB. Preordain helps boost Tarmogoyf and set up Delver of Secrets as well. Also replacing Stifle is Spell Snare, which I am finding no shortage of targets for right now and has been really good for me.

-Envelop has been great for me. Tons of people play Elves online and it is pretty helpful there, countering Green Sun's Zenith and Glimpse of Nature. Its obviously great against problem cards like Perish, Terminus, Reanimate, and Show and Tell. Envelop definitely helps compensate for the lack of Stifle in the MD. The second Envelop might be better off as Gilded Drake, but I am just not seeing a lot of Sneak and Show or Reanimator right now.

-1 Grafdigger's Cage is all the graveyard hate I can afford to run right now, and is probably too much since no one plays Dredge on MODO.

-I am not really all that happy with Fire/Ice, but I figure it is the card that can win me the most games. I think I may try Vapor Snag or a single Dismember and something else.

[catmint]

-Holding up mana, hoping for my opponent to run into Stifle is just not were I really want to be with this deck, I want to be aggressive as possible. As such, I am running Preordain right now. I think it is simply better than Thought Scour, which is great with Mongoose, but that's pretty much it besides Sumberge in the SB. Preordain helps boost Tarmogoyf and set up Delver of Secrets as well. Also replacing Stifle is Spell Snare, which I am finding no shortage of targets for right now and has been really good for me.

Maybe that is an explanation why there are so many non stifle builds around. Because people are not able to play their creatures aggressively if they hold a stifle which an opponent could walk into. That is just bad thinking. You play your threats and THEN have mana open to counter, burn, stifle,... to win with your threats. It is that easy... playing stifle does not mean: "i have to manascrew my opponent totally" or "i have to stifle his first land". Depending on the deck you have tons of good stifle targets and it is also very powerful to stifle land number 2,3 or 4+ while attacking.

[xfxf]

Turn 1 Stifle decisions are not really hard imo. If I'm holding a Delver I cast it, if I'm holding a Mongoose I hold mana up for Stifle. If I don't have a creature in hand (but kept the hand because I have cantrips) then I naturally hold mana up for Stifle. It is also a very flexible card and can dagger your opponents in many ways he wouldn't foresee. Attacking your unthresholded Mongoose into Mother of Runes with Stifle in hand is a valid play as well as countering Miracle triggers, Griselbrand activations (7 damage lightning bolt) and many more.

[Purgatory]

Turn 1 Stifle decisions are not really hard imo. If I'm holding a Delver I cast it, if I'm holding a Mongoose I hold mana up for Stifle. If I don't have a creature in hand (but kept the hand because I have cantrips) then I naturally hold mana up for Stifle. It is also a very flexible card and can dagger your opponents in many ways he wouldn't foresee. Attacking your unthresholded Mongoose into Mother of Runes with Stifle in hand is a valid play as well as countering Miracle triggers, Griselbrand activations (7 damage lightning bolt) and many more.

+1. Turn 1, I always cast a Delver if I have it against and unknown opponent if I'm on the play. If I have Mongoose I wait for turn two, playing Mongoose with U up for Stifle, or Spell Pierce is so great. :)