1 SoLaS MD and 1 SoFI SB was my configuration after testing, but I sort of got talked out of it, so now I am running the reverse (1 SoFI main, 1 SoLAS side). I got over-thrown by the wisdom of convention I guess, but you are right. 3 Life gain helps us survive our own ancient tombs, denies lightning bolts and pro white protects against plow, which were my main reasons for playing it. However, my bodies already are resistant to plow, but I dont have many forms of creature removal / card advantage, so soFI should be better. as you can see, I am still struggling with this decision myself.Originally Posted by L10
Imo, if he had a Myr Battlesphere, this would have been the optimal play. He really just needed to force-bait the plow and either race with Battlesphere if Forgemaster got plowed, or get Sundering Titan if Battlesphere got plowed. This way, he would not be blown out of the water by the first plowshares. And yes, he greatly misplayed his forgemaster activation by not sacking his Mishra's Factory to it. He should not have sacked that crucible.
I think your list is definitely in the right direction for the Prototype portal build. The list is super tight right now, but I think Etched Champion has a good place to shine in this deck. Please tell us your testing progress.
In more light-hearted news:
I am very proud to announce that I almost completely foiled out the entire archetype for legacy and vintage: mythic mud/meandeckmud/godomud/prototypeportal mud/vintage mud/workshop aggro/redshop aggro/vintage stax).
The last foils I am looking for are:
1 Karn Liberated
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Arcum Dagsson (yeah, this one is coming too)
and the new Ancient Tombs :D.
Some of the sweeter cards?
Godo's, Batterskulls, Goblin Welders, Grim Monoliths, Workshops, Wastelands, Rishadan Ports and Thran Dynamo's. :D Oh and, even though Moltensteel Dragon is a dirt cheap foil, that card looks like a million bucks!
bruizar, I am actually recommending playing both SoLaS and SoFI in the MD. I am going to try out Godo next week and see how it goes. Not sure how I want to configure yet, but I think I want 3 Godos, 3 Batterskulls, 1 SoFI, and 1 SoLaS. I may even fit in Moltensteel Dragon if I can find the room, but I find Steel Hellkite's one-sided EE to be very good.
I have had 2 / 2 / 2 - godo / skull / swords, 3 / 2 / 1 godo skull swords and 2 / 2 / 1 godo skull swords right now. I'm still not sure what the right configuration is. The flexibility of different swords is pretty sweet.
I played a bunch against ANT the other night. I have not lost a single game on the play. In one game, I landed a first turn Chalice of the Void for 1 followed by a Moltensteel Dragon. Moltensteel Dragon provided me with a really fast clock and the ANT player couldn't do anything about it. Obviously, Chalice won that game for me, but Moltensteel Dragon on turn 2 provided me a way to close the game very quickly.
If you're going for equips, here are some other equipments to consider. Disclaimer: Most of these suggestions will suck compared to swords and batterskull, but I like to be thorough with our options. Here are my results from looking through the gatherer:
Elbrus, the Binding Blade -> Really? Well, I dunno, you don't really want to Godo for it, but it's a decent topdeck with Blinkmoth Nexus. Cheap equip cost, but disasterous casting cost, worst topdeck ever on a creatureless board. If you managed to jump through its hoops, then flipping becomes another issue (plowshares / lightning bolt will try to prevent you from summoning Withengar Unbound.
Umezawa's Jitte -> Very decently costed, works well with Blinkmoth Nexus. Otherwise, the deck is too threat light to support it I think. It's still a decent option against burn to complement your Batterskulls.
Lightning Greaves -> In case you already landed a Batterskull, you probably want to have Lightning Greaves as your Godo target.
Grappling Hook -> Gets 12 damage through, and you get to pick off troublemakers such as Hierarchs, stoneforge mystics and Teeg. Problem is, this needs godo under a teeg to get in play. So
Argentum Armor -> 12 mana if youdon't have Godo is too much. That said, if you can cast a godo, you can cast an Argentum Armor, unless you used Grim Monolith to tap for it, or if they waste your sol land. If it was a little cheaper to equip, I'd play it in a heart beat since it has insane synergy with Godo.
Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang -> This card is much more inefficient than Batterskull, HOWEVER, it can get you a 5/5 flyer and doesn't need a body to equip. Equipping it on Godo means you still get 16 damage through in the first attack, and your Godo will be very hard to block with even a knight or a goyf. I am not exactly sure how Tatsumasa interacts with Swords to Plowshares. Does it stay in exile? Can someone confirm the rules of this card please?
Deathrender -> Cool effect, I just don't see it happening
Nim Deathmantle -> I haven't actually tried this yet, but I've always been intrigued by the card. Intimidate is actually relevant, as it protects your Godo, or ensures that Batterskull can lifelink on both offense and defense. The Deathmantle is a source of card advantage and acts as a line of defense against aggro decks. It's only 2 mana to cast so it's not shut down, and easily castable. The activation costs are probably too much though.
O-Naginata -> This used to be a Workshop-favorite. Works on everything except Metalworker and Blinkmoth Nexus/Factory unless pumped. Pretty much outclassed by swords
Basilisk Collar -> Chalice doesn't help, but Basilisk Collar is a nice card. Unfortunately, it's better in more creature dense decks.
Sword of Kaldra - > Perhaps it's overkill, perhaps not, at least you will be killing a bunch of creatures with it. If it comes through, it hurts yeah, but the equip cost is too much.
Manriki-Gusari I don't think this is necessary. We have better Stoneforge Mystics than stone blade.
Quietus Spike You don't want to block it and you don't want to let it through
Grafted Wargear I love this card, but not for this deck.
Moonsilver Spear This card is interesting. A recurring source of threats. Great with manlands and great with godo. Turns metalworker into something useful when you have nothing to cast.
Mortarpod -> sideboard Dredge hate. Used in elves because they have a lot of fodder, but we could use it as an extra tormod's crypt that is accessible in the late game with Godo.
Umbral Mantle It can untap something, perhaps combo with Metalworker, but I don't see it.
Runed Stalactite Helps non-godo creatures untap, but we don't need it.
Grafted Exoskeleton Turns godo into blightsteel colossus (5/5 infect with 2 strikes), but with all the same issues of bsc. (plow and summoning sickness)
Blazing Torch Cheap removal for Gaddock Teeg perhaps in the board.
EDIT:
Sword of Vengeance - Suggested by L10. Swiss army knive with first strike for extra survivability. Makes Wurmcoils really scary. You could use this over Lightning Greaves if you feel like you need something that gives you haste, but with some additional aggression.
Last edited by bruizar; 08-24-2012 at 12:27 PM.
I am at work right now. I will take a better look at your list tonight. But one equipment you are missing is Sword of Vengeance. It turns Wurmcoil Engine into a bigger Batterskull, with trample. Sounds amazing too me.
I realized that a one-of Prototype Portal can be quite good in a build with Forgemaster and Voltaic Key, since it lets you generate tons of Voltaic Key tokens (which you can sacrifice to activate Forgemaster), as well as untap Forgemaster.
Example:
Kuldotha Forgemaster and Voltaic Key in hand. Play Forgemaster.
Next turn, untap (with 6+ mana), sac 3 artifacts to get Prototype portal, imprint Voltaic Key.
1 mana, first Voltaic Key Token. 1 mana, tap Key, untap Portal.
1 mana, second Voltaic Key token. 1 mana, tap Key, untap Portal.
1 mana, third Voltaic Key token. 1 mana, tap Key, untap Forgemaster.
Tap forgemaster, sac 3 Voltaic Key, get another threat.
Next turn, create 3-4 voltaic keys tokens, sac 3 of them to tutor a new threat...
If you have more mana (thanks to Metalworker?), you can go broken and generate a lot of keys... Once you have a dozen Voltaic Key tokens, you can tutor a one-of Staff of Nin and kill the opponent (untapping it with key).
Sensei's Divining Top would also be interesting in such a build (comboes with Key as well as Prototype Portal).
Problem is, I want to play too many things, but have too little space:
- Forgemaster
- Wurmcoil
- Godo / Bonfire of the Damned
- Voltaic Key / Sensei's Divining Top (which also helps with Bonfire) / Prototype Portal
- Chalice
- Staff of Nin
Also, it seems like Voltaic Key usually goes in the MUD Stompy build (with Grim Monolith + Thran Dynamo), while the Forgemaster Build does not play Key / Thran Dynamo.
Sword of Vengeance should be on the list, edited the post to keep everything together.
When you get back, take an extra moment to think about Moonsilver Spear. The more I think about it the better I think it is. When you attack just once, you get a new, evasive flyer that you can equip the Spear to. It's a shame that the card doesn't pump, because the first strike on Godo would really help him out (he has to attack twice so he's sucking up damage with only 3 toughness). It has obvious synergy with manlands, and the token is enough to block delvers forever. The best thing is that you don't have to connect to get the token.
Batterskull, godo, swords..we are trying to make a stoneforgeless-bladenot a bad idea , anyone went to a tournament with Godo?
Before I say anything, SoFI, SoLaS, and Batterskull are clearly the best Godo targets. But let's expand our horizon and look at other equipment targets.
Not interesting:
Elbrus, the Binding Blade -- I use this in EDH for fun but I don't think it will function well in MUD. With the mana cost at 7, I'd rather bring out a threat, Staff of Nin for card advantage, or Karn Liberated for control. Also, we really do not run much evasion cards. Another downside it that there are more flyiers now (Delver, Griselbrand, Angel tokens) than in the past so Blinkmoth may not get us there. Elrus may never transform, and our opponent may find a permission card once we do connect. I don't think it is worth our effort.
Umezawa's Jitte -- A good sideboard option against creature decks. I actually think SoLaS and SoFI makes Godo a much more scary threat, since his 3/3 body is less than impressive. It would have been amazing if Godo had Double Strike so we can use Jitte counters after the first strike. Bus alas, he does not. Again, a good SB option. But there are better swords available for the MD.
Argentum Armor - Yeah, pretty much what you said. Without Godo, we waste a turn to bring it out, and another turn to equip it on a creature, assuming we have one. Not worth it in my opinion. Getting 12 generic mana in one turn does not seem likely, or we'd be playing Blightsteel Colossus.
Tatsumasa, the Dragon's Fang -- If the Token gets bounced or exiled, we do not get our sword back. No thanks.
Deathrender -- The problem with this card is that we do not run that creatures (and Batterskull does not count) and the +2/+2 effect is pretty underwhelming. I can see it being used it it did more, in a different deck.
Nim Deathmantle -- I am not sure if we will have four mana open just to use Nim's trigger. Maybe in the late game? Though, people leave three mana open to bounce Batterskull, so how knows. I will probably skip it.
O-Naginata -- Pretty much what you said. I preffer Loxodon Warhammer to be honest.
Basilisk Collar -- Basilisk Collar + Goblin Sharpshooter is pretty funny. I used to fool around with it in Vial Goblins. Don't think it will make an impact in MUD, considering it does nothing for Wurmcoil Engine, which is my main beater.
Sword of Kaldra -- Overkill. I mean, with the +5/+5, we can pretty much kill any creature anyways. The second affect is not needed. And we can't kite creatures with Sword of Kaldra to make it useful.
Manriki-Gusari -- Agreed. Not needed. I mean, what equipments do we want to destroy? Batterskull? Well, we have one too, and other bigger robots. Jitte? Nah.
Quietus Spike -- I don't find this necessary. Godo with his 3/3 body can easily be match. If we equip it to another large robot, it seems overkill, as it does not have much value in the late games. It will probably allow use to kill our opponent with one less hit, but this is not needed.
Grafted Wargear -- What do you like about this card? The oracle text makes it not worth equiping to manlands.
Mortarpod -- Yeah, I can see this as a 1-of SB card against dredge.
Umbral Mantle -- It's utility is too narrow and the +2/+2 is underwhelming. I'd rather have the 4th Key. As a Godo target, useless.
Runed Stalactite -- A hilarious SB option against Merfolk with LoA out, but it's crap. Looking at your comment, you meant a different card, right?
Grafted Exoskeleton -- Not only Godo, but it turns all of our creatures into potential Blightsteel Colossus. The thing is though, Blightsteel Colossus can usually win the turn he comes out in Meandeck MUD because of Lightning Greaves and good timing. A second win condition may seem as a win-more move, and may not actually help MUD's strategy overall. Regardless, this is one of my favorite Godo targets in EDH, for obvious reasons. ;)
Blazing Torch -- Meh. I'd rather run removals, like Sudden Shock, against Teeg and other annoying utility creatures. In fact, I find Sudden Shock to be fantastic in my Dragon Stompy deck.
Interesting:
Sword of Vengeance -- As discussed.
Lightning Greaves -- Actually, I find Lightning Greaves an incredibly good equipment, period. I used it three weeks ago when tinkering my deck before going to a tournament, and found it decent at chalice slot. I didn't want Chalice because I liked my Keys not getting countered, but wanted a form of protection against StP. Lighting Greaves does just that. A hasty Metalworker is also gamebreaking, and won me a couple games. Hasty robots also give Miracle decks headaches after they used Terminus the previous turn. Not a good Godo target but a great equipment overall in MUD.
Grappling Hook -- Actually, this does look realy good. Godo with double strike is very scary and this can be used as a form of removal, twice. It also goes well REALLY with Wurmcoil Engine. Deathtouch + Double Strike + Provoke sounds like an insane combo, and we also gain 12 life per turn? Sounds good to me. This card is at least cute.
Moonsilver Spear -- Lu Bu and his Lunar Spear was my first reaction. After reading card, I had a moment of laughter to think this is our Entreat the Angels. The synergy is obvious and we do have the mana, so this card may be worth a slot.
So yeah, these are my opinions. I am especially excited for Sword of Vengeance, Grapping Hook, and Moonsilver Spear.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////
But now we have another issue, where do we find the room? This is a list that I just brainstormed.
// Lands (22)
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Great Furnace
4 Snow-Covered Mountains (love the Ice Age art)
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep (Seems good with Godo)
1 Hammerheim (Because I like the art. Saved me once against Merfolk with Spreading Seas in totally different deck. Once.)
// Ramp (14)
4 Thran Dynamo
4 Grim Monolith
3 Metalworker
3 Voltaic Key
// Beats (14)
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Godo, Bandit Warlord
3 Batterskull
// Tools (4)
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Magus of the Moon
1 Sword of Vengeance
1 Grappling Hook
1 Moonsilver Spear
Suggestions?
Before I think about other Equipment for Godo why don't you complete the playset of Godo/Batterskull? It is obviously the best combination. You don't need mana to equip, you can keep going with casting more threats.
And since Godo is very easy to handle you don't mind having two legendaries in hand.
Play 4 Godo, he's the nuts!
IMO Etched Champion feels very comfortable with Godo/Batterskull. Simply equip him with skull and ride to victory. He races even a progenitus + another creature! Unremovable is a big plus!
@Runed Stalactite: It makes the equipped creature a Samurai so you get to untap it with Godo. It's still crap though, but an interesting interaction.
I really like a miser Shinka, The Bloodsoaked Keep. First strike is a very relevant ability and it gives Godo some extra survivability in combat.
Too bad Untaidake, the Cloud Keeper doesn't tap for 1 mana on normal spells, otherwise I would have liked to test it with Karn Silver Golemns and Godo's as Sol Land 9-12 (brings consitency which is why workshopshop is so succesful in vintage).
Batterskull and Swords are head above shoulders the best equipments that we can run, but we shouldn't be blind to alternatives. I'm unsure which non-batterskull, non-sword equipment I would run at this point and will likely just stick to what we have, but considering alternatives is important when we have thousands of cards in the card pool.
On the topic of equipments, maybe it's worth it to look at the other swords too:
Sword of Fire and Ice
1) Card draw is something this deck lacks.
2) extra damage / removal against Gaddock Teeg and other utility creatures.
Sword of Light and Shadow
1) Raise dead gets back threats. We have a lot of big bombs, so getting them back is good.
2) Life gain eases damage from Ancient Tomb
Sword of Body and Mind
1) Extra body is useful. Be sure to equip the sword to the wolf because:
2) Mill only grows Knight of the Reliquary and Scavenging Ooze to mythic proportions.
Sword of Feast and Famine
1) Discard is great against combo.
2) Untap works with Manlands and Grim Monolith. Untapping Ancient Tomb is pretty useless unless you like self-inflicted damage a lot.
Sword of War and Peace
1) Extra damage can easily be enough for an alpha strike with Godo
2) Life gain is nearly irrelevant, as you won't have close to 7 cards in your hand anyway.
Blue Protection:
Jace, the Mind sculptor
Delver of Secrets
flash Snapcaster Mage block
flash Vendilion Clique block
Merfolk
White Protection:
Flash Aven Mindcensor block
Swords to Plowshares
Knight of the Reliquary
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Mother of Runes
Path to Exile
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Gaddock Teeg
Qasali Pridemage
Red Protection:
Lightning Bolt
Goblins
Black Protection:
Germ Token
No relevant creatures in the current meta that I am aware of.
Green Protection:
Nimble Mongoose
Gaddock Teeg
Noble Hierarch
Scavenging Ooze
Tarmogoyf
Eternal Witness
Knight of the Reliquary
Scryb Ranger
Qasali Pridemage
Blue protection is not as important when your creatures are already strong against cards like Jace. Unless you're expecting a lot of Merfolk, I wouldn't mind leaving without a blue sword. White and Green are the most relevant protection colors right now. White is better because it shuts down Swords to Plowshares. You need at least protection from Knight of the Reliquary in this format, because he can outgrow everything you have. This makes War and Peace or Light and Shadow an important sword. War and Peace has great protection against removal, but the abilities itself are not that hot. The lifegain is about the same as Light and Shadow, and pro-red protects from lightning bolt and pro-black protects against Batterskull germ token. It comes down to the preference between:
War: Added damage (faster clock)
Shadow: Raise dead (virtual card advantage)
For the second sword, if you're going to pick Sword of Fire and Ice, you will have 2 pro-red swords with War and Peace, and nothing against Stone Blade (except better Batterskulls!).
If you're going to pick Sword of Feast and Famine, you will have something against Batterskull and perhaps a better sword against combo, while also having pro-green which is relevant against the best decks (RUG: Nimble Mongoose, Tarmogoyf, Maverick: Nearly everything). Maverick can still use Mother of Runes to block though. Locking in to Feast and Famine means you still need pro-white. This feels suboptimal because taking light and shadow means you have overlap on pro-black (batterskull), whereas the utility from War and Peace isn't really big.
Sword of Body and Mind is the last option for the sword package. Body and Mind is very versatile, but you have to be careful about what you mill. You don't want to accidentally mill 8 lands and get alpha-striked by MoM+Knight of the Reliquary. The good news is, artifact creatures generally don't care about MoM, but the bad news is, Godo and Wolf tokens do have a color identity. That said, Sword of Body and Mind gives you a recurring source of creatures in a creature light deck, while also giving 2 very relevant protection colors. In my opinion, the best combination of swords right now are:
Sword of Light and Shadow + Sword of Fire and Ice
This gives you 2 sources of virtual card advantage and a way to get rid of problematic creatures while protecting your dudes against lightning bolts.
OR
Sword of Light and Shadow + Sword of Body and Mind
This gives you 2 sources of virtual card advantage, relevant protection colors against the formats' biggest beaters, and the ability to have both a Green and White sword to play with against Maverick.
This lets me come to the following conclusion:
Maindeck:
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice OR 1 Sword of Body and Mind
Sideboard:
1 Sword of Fire and Ice OR 1 Sword of Body and Mind
I do not think Feast and Famine is currently worth it, since we already have Lodestone Golem and Chalice of the Void against combo. It would be good against decks like spiral tide and show and tell, but you will probably not be able to win that match fast enough anyway.
Godo MUD is the real deal. I've had the pleasure of playing against many iterations of the deck. Bruizar and I have talked about the deck for hours and hours, not to mention the number of games we've played. I usually bring the usual suspects; Delver RUG, Maverick, UW and ANT.
Delver RUG is a favorite, although not overwhelmingly so. The Delvers are rough to deal with because they apply early pressure while the Dazes and Spell Pierces protect them from the few answers the deck has against them (Bonfire or Rolling Earthquake). Not only that, Tarmogoyf tends to grow to be a 5/6. Without equipment, Godo MUD doesn't have a threat that trumps this size and the deck often dies to it. Delver RUG is just so efficient at getting the opponent in boltrange that it doesn't really matter if Godo MUD can stabilize the board, as it just dies to one or two Bolts to the face. The countersuite RUG has is often enough to slow down MUD long enough to win the game. That said, it also happens often enough that I have the wrong counters for the cards that are thrown at me. Needless to say I lose those games.
Maverick is a slight dog. Zenith into Teeg (often only sideboard) is a serious problem but we've tweaked the deck to handle it better. Although Pridemage is very good against this deck, it's difficult to answer each threat Godo MUD can present, as well as being a bit mana intensive (especially from a Zenith). The sol lands and artifact acceleration make it possible to present threats at a high rate. Maverick must work to get some board presence going before it can start answering threats, otherwise it's not going to win games (except when the MUD deck craps on it's pilot). Godo and Karn are amazing, as Maverick can't counter or plow them (plowing Godo answers half the threat). That said, Maverick is still a very powerful deck, well-equipped to deal with just about anything. Sometimes it just has a good draw, and that's all it takes.
UW is a favorite, though not by much. Results may be skewed as games go very long so it's hard to get accurate results because it's easy to mess up something, giving away the advantage. I've won games I shouldn't have won and vice versa. Godo trumps Jace and Plowshares because it presents two threats (not to mention Batterskull is a recurring threat) but Vendilion Clique and hardcounters like Counterspell and FoW have shown to be extremely good against this deck. I'm playing a Blade variant so I can't say anything about the UW Miracles match-up, except that Terminus would probably be a nuisance.
ANT is a slight dog, although we haven't played any sideboarded games. The games have a vintage feel to it, where games end very, very quickly. Chalice at one is usually all it takes to dismantle ANT game one because I don't get enough time to reach threshold (which is near impossible without throwing away cards into Chalice, leaving me with little action to kill), while the MUD player can easily follow up with another Chalice or Lodestone Golem, which spells GG. On the play it's easier because I can name Chalice with Therapy or get rid of it through a Duress. Duress can sometimes screw me over when MUD has a double Chalice hand or a hand with turn two Lodestone Golem when I don't have enough action to go for the turn two kill (as I'm aggressively looking for discard spells in my opener). The player who wins the die roll has the best chance of taking the match but if I had to pick a favorite, it would be MUD.
These are four of the best decks legacy has to offer and I can't say any of the four decks really dominates it. It has the tools to beat up both fair and unfair decks and it has a nice element of surprise to it (I know the contents of the deck and find it hard to consistently beat it with streamlined builds of tier one decks so imagine someone oblivious to Godo MUD). Not only that, this is a work in progress, competing against decks that have passed the test of many, many tournaments. So although I've won more games than I've lost to this deck, I'm still very impressed by what it's capable of!
bruizar, I think SoFI + SoLaS is the best combo. SoBaM is terrible because of the mill affect. It is basically a dead card against any deck that uses the graveyard, which is basically everybody. Which mean against those decks, we can only use this as a defensive tool. I don't find the 2/2 body to be relevant either.
Also, I did try out the three non-skull and swords I thought was interesting (Sword of Vengeance, Grappling Hook, Moonsilver Spear). Of the three, I thought Sword of Vengeance was the best Godo target because it turned him into a big threat. With five power, it can beat Batterskull (first strike = no lifelink), Goyfs a lot of times, and an early Knight. And of course, it also goes well with our other robots. Grappling Hook would have been my second choice if there were a bunch of utility creatures and I want them dead, Godo can usually take them down. Grappling is also insane with Wurmcoil Engine, as expected. Though, I found his mana cost and equip cost too high to cast it regularly. Same goes with Moonsilver Spear. Moonsilver Spear was pretty good if my robots manage to live a couple turns. Otherwise, I can potentially pay 8 mana for 0 Angels if my robot gets destroyed, or just 1 Angel if the robot is weak, which is a loss of investment. So in summary, Sword of Vengeance is awesome, Grappling Hook has it's place, and Moonsilver Spear was decent. Though, I don't think my list catered to use Moonsilver Spear, which may have been the issue.
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What do you guys think about this list by Aaron Chism? It made 14 out of 142 players:
// Lands [22]
2 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
4 Wasteland
// Creatures [14]
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
2 Myr Battlesphere
3 Sundering Titan
4 Metalworker
4 Wurmcoil Engine
// Sorceries [3]
3 All Is Dust
// Artifacts [21]
1 Trading Post
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Mox Diamond
2 Staff of Domination
3 Lightning Greaves
3 Voltaic Key
4 Grim Monolith
4 Trinisphere
// Sideboard
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Platinum Angel
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Mindslaver
1 Karn Liberated
I have thought about using 12 Post + Sol Lands, but I never thought it would be consistent without Expedition Map to fetch the Cloudpost.
I am still not a believer of 12-post in the deck. Its just too slow with less utility in the manabase (look at Zirath's list)
As for Trading Post, I still think that card is potential. Has anyone seen the Black Market decks in Standard. Although its more of a black staxx-like
Anyways, Trading Post:
-can gain you life if you're low on life. It can also feed Goblin Welder
-it can act as a pseudo Forcefield
-it can recur artifacts (as long as you sacrifice Hellbent Metalworker. With that, you can even play combat tricks (sacrifice a tapped Wurmcoil Engine to create two blockers.
-it can draw cards if you have 'worn out' artifacts.
I can see Trading Post going with Goblin Welder but not as a combo build, but rather a value build. Run Chalice of the Void with it (thank you Cavern of Souls), essentially a hybrid.
As for the Forgemaster build, I just checked the GenCon Meta and apparently 4 people played the Forgemaster build and non of them even managed to top-32. I think everyone is prepared for it. On the other hand, I think a lot of them rely too much on Forgemaster (which I personally think is a mistake). Forgemaster should only be there if you want to tutor something if you're down (aka you have no threats but only utility artifacts). I would never sacrifice artifacts that are not 'worn out' to Forgemaster. Only sacrifice tapped Grim Monolith, Hellbent Metalworkers, extra Mox Opals and Voltaic Keys. I would never sacrifice a Great Furnace if I can't recur it. I would never sacrifice a Lodestone Golem. I would only activate Forgemaster if I know I'm on the clear (and can win with it) or if I'm really down.
Also, as for that kind of build, I think Faithless Looting is a must as it will turn the deck into all-in early bash and win kind of deck. Durdling around with Forgemaster/Welder type of build will lead to nowhere.
Personally, I think Chalice is the way to go right now. It either address most of the problem cards this deck faces or totally shuts down a lot of deck to beats. If theres more Goblins/Merfolk/Maverick around your area, I would go for the Forgemaster/Welder one (and play it properly) but if your'e meta is Tempo and Combo, I would go for the Chalice/Stompy builds.
I am convinced that WotC is "dumbing" the game because of all the stupid posts they come across on MTG-related forums
I'm still digesting thev12 post list. It is interesting, but I would need to run that mana base a while to get a sense of how it plays. My first thought is, not many ways to land a turn 1 chalice. As for trading post,mi haven't had time to play around with it yet but have seen it in standard and layer7b/legacy.
I gonna test my list this tuesday, meanwhile I did some goldfishes with cards I wanted to test, mainly as a prototype portal target.
I tried Urza's bauble and Mishra's bauble instead of sensei's divining top. It is cute but not that much useful. I tried Lotus bloom instead of metalworker. The possibility to create at least a black lotus every turn seems very strong.
Lotus bloom doesn't have a mana cost, but it has a converted mana cost, so if I am not wrong we can imprint it.
When smokestack is on play, lotuses gives us more choices when we need to sacrifice permanents.
Lotus bloom, fallowed by a sol land and chalice at one on the first turn seems to be a strong play as it let us cast a portal turn 3 with tangle wire, phyrexian metamorph or batterskull imprinted and activate it this very turn.
Creating multiple portals with a metamorph imprinted one circumvent counterspells. This makes me questioning myself about the best way to fight stifle and pithing needle.
I've been playing a 12post + Sol land manabase for a few months now. I think it works out really well in a more controlling build with more emphasis on Metalworker + Staff since cloudpost also lets you abuse Staff. I don't like that he didn't include Mishra's Factory since it seems like a natural fit, but it is an interesting list. Kind of a hybrid of what I've been playing and traditional MUD. I think I'll test it out and see what I think.
This is what i plan to make:
4#Great Furnace
4#City of Traitors
4#Ancient Tomb
3#Cavern of Souls
3#mountain
3#Mishra’s Factory
4#Chalice of the Void
4#Lodestone Golem
3#Goblin welder
3#Magus of the moon
2#Phyrexian Metamorph
3#Metalworker
3#Thran Dynamo
4#Grim Monolith
4#Wurmcoil Engine
3#Godo, Bandit Warlord
4#Batterskull
1#Sword of Fire and Ice
1#Sword of Light and Shadow
Only problem is my red mana, since i put in welders i often cant find red mana for either welder or godo. Maybe ill ad 2 mox opals if i can find some space. I have also been thinking about dropping metalworker all together in favour of magus of the moon since it kills so many decks. What do you think?
PS: ebrus binding blade seems OK with godo. only 1 to equip.
Last edited by Alex Holland; 08-31-2012 at 02:45 PM. Reason: deck updated cut wastes add magus
Nice list. It's close, but different from what I play, but I can give you some advice on the manabase. I think you are underestimating basic Mountain. Great Furnace opens you up to color screw, and mox opal is simply bad in a deck with high CC artifacts. I would change either Factory or Wasteland, depending on your preference, to a couple of basic mountains for consistency and being less prone to wasteland yourself.
i still dont feel those basics, bu if i drop the wastelands i can add some. By doing so i can also take out the crucibles and replace them by some magus of the moon guys. If i play magus i dont need wasteland anymore in most cases. And by adding mountains i get less color screw. If been pulling some nice hands, much more coistent and aggressive this way. Whats the opinion about magus here?
Whats your list?
I have one stupid question: Why is MUD called MUD? I can't figure out what these letters stand for.
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