No deck "has" to do anything, but rather it's a matter of what you want it to do. Force solves a lot of problems for the deck (unfair decks) and having countermagic makes up for the deck's slow clock. Now, when you strip their hand with therapy, you can counter their topdecks.Originally Posted by OCPunisher
Edit: Lost my win and in in MN to hive mind. Won game one after double forcing Hive Mind (he couldn't pay for his pact of negation) before losing a drawn out game two where I needed another turn and getting turn two'd g3 on his mull to five. I mulled a bit in three games as well, but couldn't find a cabal therapy (which would've taken g2org3). So it goes.
Overall I was happy with my play in the event, with a blind therapy rate of approx 1:1. In the board, the Thrun and maybe another card will probably come out for a pair of Thoughtseizes.
@Caleb -- were you content with the rate of speed that your deck won at (aka with no real bombs aside from Sphinx, who isn't much of a combat-oriented bomb). It seemed like you were playing very quickly in the merfolk feature matchup...obviously this is necessary to play Nic Fit in general, but I couldn't help but think that if you had another bomb somewhere in your deck, you would have been able to take your time a little bit more. Even moving the Tusk maindeck might help.
@jbone -- Sucks that the wheels fell off after such a strong start =(
A few things --
-) Nightmare gets boarded out almost every game 2, and then brought back in for roughly 50% of game 3's. It all depends on what graveyard hate your opponent is running. I always expect people to bring in the hate vs the Rector version, so I board out various graveyard interactions. Then if I don't see hate g3, I reboard to bring back in some of the more powerful cards....of which Nightmare is definitely a member.
-) Leylines seem bad because they are. You can make an argument for a singleton Sanctity as a Rector target vs burn and combo, but there are better options vs combo, and you don't care about burn now that you have Thragtusk. Unless burn gets another good toy soon, it'll lose whatever relevance it somehow is clinging to. Likewise, Nic Fit is a natural predator of Dredge with a strong matchup that doesn't require (much) hate. Reanimator is a problem, but in my experience, Reanimator is fought better with different weapons. Note that if your local meta has a lot of Reanimator, then I'd endorse Voids....but not for a major event.
-) How was Eldarami's Call compared to Diabolic Intent?
-) Don't board out the Fetters vs RUG! I've won a lot of games because of Fetters in that matchup...locking down a Goyf or a Delver is perfectly fine, and don't forget that you can Rector it in attached to Nimble Mongoose to get around its shroud. Sometimes just sticking it on one of their duals just to gain 4 life is all it takes to win a matchup.
-) Your r5 opponent is good at life, it would seem. The really fast, hyper-aggro hands are the only hands out of RUG that we lose to. If they have like 1 land, dude, dude, filter, filter, counter, counter, we can't beat them. On any statistically average hand, we crush. But when they get those outliers...it's really hard.
-) I don't really understand how that monoblue deck is a thing, at all. It looks like a steaming pile....no FoW in your monoblue deck? Really? Pretty sure Raking Canopy is actually better than his deck.
-) I'd recommend Harmonic Sliver instead of Pridemage. Also, running one G/x naturalizer is perfectly fine in the sideboard. I don't think there's enough reason to run it maindeck at this particular meta-moment.
-) I don't see much mention of Sigarda in your report....did you just never see/go for her? She's usually a workhorse.
-) Probes are largely unnecessary, and can be stronger cards. I could see running them in a BUG build, but running them just for Probe+Therapy seems poor. They'd be better when you can at least cycle them for value later without having to worry about your life.
-) Underworld Dreams is vastly too cute, and Chains of Mephistopheles is better if you want to attack on that angle. Just remember that it also hurts your Tops and Arena. The other problem with Chains is that in order for it to do anything in the matchups where you want it, you have to see it -early-, which all but necessitates that you run Enlightened Tutors.
-) Glad you had a good time and did fairly well, though =) It's a really hard deck, so I wouldn't worry about that. Just keep working on it and success will come in time. I'd definitely focus on refining your sideboard first and foremost...it looks really rough to me, and the sideboard is actually really important for Nic Fit. We have so many more tools than other decks that it can be challenging to figure out what to run. Try to keep the hooks and needles idea in mind when building your board -- you want Hooks that knock out your opponent (Raking Canopy vs Miracles, Nether Void vs storm, Humility vs Sneak / Reanimator), and Needles that annoy them while you set up the hooks (Extirpates, annoying gsz critters, more discard, etc).
I'll try to reply more to everyone else as I get time throughout the day.
Aggressive 1-drop that turns off dread return, therapies (booo), past in flames storm, and snapcaster targets.
I could see siding out therapy/explorer against u/w snapcaster decks and siding in this and carpet of flowers.
I don't know how effective this would be against us in D&T or Maverick. I imagine it would be decent, but aside from therapy and pulse, we aren't extremely vulnerable to the card.
I was worried about it last night when I first saw it, and then I realized that it's meaningless unless it's in their opener and they're on the play. In those instances it will suck, but only in those instances. 90% of the time we'll be leading with Therapy anyway, and at the point at which we set off the first Explorer, we rarely care beyond that. It's annoying, but it's definitely not the end of the world.
In other news, I just spent $1 on a foil Starved Rusalka. It's not the GSZ sac outlet that I want, but I'm convinced that Rector needs the ability to make its GSZs into a sac outlet. Hopefully RtR brings something like Scarland Thrinax, except actually on color =.=;; Until then, I'll test the Rusalka and see how good having the additional sac outlet is. Not sure where I'm squeezing it in yet -- I am strongly considering dropping to 1 Elspeth in exchange for a Diabolic Intent. Elspeth's crazy good [in the Moat version], but I only really need one of her if I'm running an Intent, because that's a virtual 2 copies....except I also get the additional flexibility that Intent offers. That also lowers my curve slightly, which is appreciated.
I'm wondering if Vexing Sphinx would be viable in a deck with 2 phyrexian towers and 2 diabolic intents. Also maybe 2 md bloodghast, and a loam to round it out?
The obvious bane of that card is STP and Jace bounce, but if we can find a way to abuse the discard, it's an awesome flier that brings tremendous value when it dies.
I was thinking of maybe dryad militant as a GSZ target for against RUG? It slows their threshhold and reduces the number of things that pump Goyf. Also it would probably be good against High Tide? And storm combo a bit. Turns off thresh for cabal ritual. And dredgelike you said. Turns off all of their sacrifice outlets like therapy and DR
For straight GB or GBW I can't think of a reason not to at least try it. In a gifts/intuition build, it wouldn't be ideal, but one could work around it.
I don't know if I have said anything in here about it, but I'm not a fan of the Gofts/Intuition builds. If were playing Blue I would rather just play control. gifts and intuition tries to be a bit too cute IMO
@Megadeus -- There has always been and will always be a section of people (I include myself in this) that have a soft spot for Gifts Rock. It's like the people who call for Monoblack Control's return every time there's a new set spoiled. Whether or not it's actually "good," it will always be attempted. While I think there are probably better things to do with the options blue offers than Gifts/Intuition, I have nothing but respect for those who are trying to tune them and get them to work. Hell, I just spent the morning sketching out a Greater Gifts list for modern to dick around with later. God only knows if it will work or not (probably not), but if it does, the return is amazing.
@everyone else -- Why are you guys thinking about trying to put the Dryad in a deck that revolves around abusing Cabal Therapy, exactly? We aren't maverick. In the matchups we would want to board it in vs (thinking storm-based combo specifically), we want every Therapy we can get our hands on. Losing the flashback half of Therapy (often the better half of the spell) is just absurd in the storm matchup. Especially when storm combo is already running Dread of Night, Pyroclasm, Massacre, Infest, and any of a half-dozen other options. It's a good card, and it plays well with GSZ, but I really don't think it's where we want to be in the matchup. Hell, disregarding Therapy, it means we also can't Witness back Extirpates or Cranial Extractions, which are often our strongest weapons!
Storm can go off with or without this card on the battlefield. I was thinking of using this card against decks where explorer/therapy isn't ideal (i.e. snapcaster/jace decks, dredge, perhaps high tide.)
Even then, though, Therapy vs Dredge naming LED or Breakthrough can save game ones where they just go busted, and postboard Therapy can be important to take away their hate cards (Chain of Vapor, Nature's Claim especially). It's also valuable as a ramp engine in this matchup because you need acceleration to keep up with them. As for Snap/Jace decks, Therapy is equally valuable here, as it checks for counterspells before trying to resolve a bomb. Beyond that, however, there is the problem against a Snapcaster blue control deck, the odds of the Dryad living are nonexistent. Maybe it's just personal playstyle, but I'd rather have the ability to reuse my Pulses and Cranials vs heavy control decks...even if it means their Snapcasters are live.
If you want to test with it go ahead...I just don't see it ending well, honestly =/
I haven't posted anything, but my inspiration is Gifts control from Vintage. Combo-control feels like one of the strongest possible archetypes, by combo-control meaning control that combos because it can, not combo that controls because it has to. It would be so awesome to lose the clunky expensive late-game cards, instead control the game for a few turns, Gifts EOT, untap and win the game.
SummenSaugen: well, I use Chaos Orb, Animate Artifact, and Dance of Many to make the table we're playing on my chaos orb token
SummenSaugen: then I flip it over and crush my opponent
For the curious, this is what I ran in Minneapolis:
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Marsh Flats
2 Phyrexian Tower
3 Plains
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Eladamri's Call
3 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Vindicate
3 Academy Rector
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Humility
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Sun Titan
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
Sideboard:
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Extirpate
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Raking Canopy
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Humility
1 Memoricide
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Terminus
The Terminus wasn't so hot. I wanted another sweeper and that's what I had avx.
I can't compare to Intent, but I loved the Call. I'm keeping it and adding Intent. There were occasions when I was stuck on 5 mana and being able to EOT search up Sigarda or Baneslayer and then play on my turn was good.
Brandon is on a private board I'm on and kept talking about running Ninjas. I thought he was joking. Joke's on me I guess
I agree here. You're going to have to spend the same amount of mana for a Pridemage or a Harmonic to destroy something and at least I never want to leave a Pridemage hanging out there waiting for it to be removed before I have a chance to activate it. Exalted I don't think does enough for us to warrant running the Pridemage out earlier than you need its activated ability.
I like this idea. My logic for adding the Intent is that it's A) a sac outlet, and B) a means to get another sac outlet (hello Tower). Being able to GSZ for one also sounds good. Not sure I'd drop an Elspeth though. I was never sad to see her.
@everyone else RE: Militant Dryad. Not loving it. It might be good to keep a Mongoose off Threshold, but its anti-goyf uses only apply if you land it very early otherwise there's a good chance there's already a sorcery or instant in the bin. Pretty much sucks late, the P/T is such that you can't really swing with it early either because it dies to everything (half the reason Thalia rocks is the First Strike).
Touching on the other dryad, I'm thinking I may put Dryad Arbor back in. Looking for non-Explorer ramp, Dryad doesn't seem so bad to me at the moment. Probably going to drop an Elder for the arbor.
That's fair. Room is tight enough that I doubt I'll be able to add both...and I feel like Intent synergizes better overall than Call does. Call definitely seems legit, though...especially since you can do the same chain that Bruizar was talking about with Chord of Calling -- Call a Witness, Witness back Call, etc.
The other nifty thing about Rusalka is that it's a 1-drop. This means that despite Deranged Outcast being a "better card," it's much cheaper. And since it's 1, people will assume that you're Zenithing for an Explorer. Then, suddenly, sac outlet! lol. I dunno. I like the CONCEPT of GSZ for a sac outlet. I don't like Starved Rusalka. I think that you'd have to be mad to actually LIKE Starved Rusalka. I'm really hoping that Ravnica gives us a better option here....I saw the Troll that got spoiled, and it was all like:Brandon is on a private board I'm on and kept talking about running Ninjas. I thought he was joking. Joke's on me I guess
I agree here. You're going to have to spend the same amount of mana for a Pridemage or a Harmonic to destroy something and at least I never want to leave a Pridemage hanging out there waiting for it to be removed before I have a chance to activate it. Exalted I don't think does enough for us to warrant running the Pridemage out earlier than you need its activated ability.
I like this idea. My logic for adding the Intent is that it's A) a sac outlet, and B) a means to get another sac outlet (hello Tower). Being able to GSZ for one also sounds good. Not sure I'd drop an Elspeth though. I was never sad to see her.
BG
Trample
2/2
Sac a creature, put a +1/+1 counter on it
B: Regenerate ~
And I came.
And then I looked again, and it's not sac a creature at all, it's "discard a creature card."
And I was really, really sad. Here's hoping there's something somewhere in Ravnica =.=;;
I'm never really unhappy to see Elspeth either, but at some point strong cards have to be cut in order to make the overall deck better. I'm certainly not getting rid of my second copy....I'll try it for a while in that configuration and see if I like it. Time will tell.
I think that's a major reason why I don't like Militant Dryad. She doesn't do anything retroactively to stuff that's already there. See: Jotun Grunt. She would probably be too powerful if she did...she's kind of like a g/w version of Leyline of the Void, almost. She doesn't do anything unless she's in your opening hand, but she can swing. But she can also die easily because she's a creature. Meh.@everyone else RE: Militant Dryad. Not loving it. It might be good to keep a Mongoose off Threshold, but its anti-goyf uses only apply if you land it very early otherwise there's a good chance there's already a sorcery or instant in the bin. Pretty much sucks late, the P/T is such that you can't really swing with it early either because it dies to everything (half the reason Thalia rocks is the First Strike).
Touching on the other dryad, I'm thinking I may put Dryad Arbor back in. Looking for non-Explorer ramp, Dryad doesn't seem so bad to me at the moment. Probably going to drop an Elder for the arbor.
How were the Sakura-Tribes for you? I don't like Arbor primarily because it dies to Deed -- the other issue with it is that it encourages "wasting" a GSZ. I'd rather GSZ for an Explorer than an Arbor any day of the week, and GSZ gets substantially more powerful the longer the game goes on. If the Rusalka checks out, I'll probably try to bump up to 4x Green Sun...but even then, I don't really like the idea of Green Sunning for a land. Depends on the hand, I guess =/
EDIT: Also, does anyone know the guy that top8'd with ScapeWish? I'm hoping we get a report out him. I very much don't agree with cutting a Wood Elves, btw, if you happen to see this.
I enjoy the straight BUG control but I wouldn't play it without FoW. I find that Gifts Ungiven grants closure to any Aggro, and Control based matchup.
I will be trying out Sphinx of Uthuun tonight, I'll bring some news.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
At one point I did get a nifty sequence of Call for Sigarda, Sigarda, E.Witness for Call, Call for Baneslayer, Baneslayer. That was fun
This is true. With Intent providing a virtual Elspeth maybe going to one is okay.
The Elders were good and bad. On the plus side, you get a wider range of keepable openers because you've got more ramp in the deck. It also gets you a Recurring Nightmare target if somehow you don't already have one. (I've been in this boat before.) On the minus side, they're terrible late, they're nigh-useless beaters.
I don't really like losing the arbor to Deed, but I'm planning on it as land 23 (ie +1 land) that you can use T1 GSZ if need be. By the time you crack a deed losing the land shouldn't hurt too much. I actually talked to the guy running GBu about this after our round (in the 30 seconds we had since right after we finished the next round was posted) since I was surprised to see him w/ the Arbor given how down most of us here have been on it.
Pretty sure I'm going to make changes like this:
-1 Humility, -2 Elders, +1 Moat, +1 Arbor, +1 Intent
Hopefully my Moat and Intent show up before Thursday when the local shop runs Legacy.
Pretty sure a friend lost to him, I know that much. (Unless there were multiple Scapewish decks there.) I'll ask for any comments on the match.
Seemed to be a few Nic Fit variants around:
Myself and jbone on Rector.
Caleb + my round four opponent on GBu (never saw an Agent from my opponent)
36th place on a pod/rector build (interesting looking list)
7th place ScapeWish
I guess I may be the only person running non scapeshift Jund in here, but Rakdos' Return? Seems solid vs. control and maybe combo?
We don't play Mind Shatter as is, and I don't forsee the burn half being super relevant to us.
Also @everyone with a hard on for the new Militant
I'm on board with Arianrhod and silkwilly that it's not really that good for exactly the reasons they listed.
The card was just spoiled, so excuse us for discussing a card that is in the deck's color that specifically hoses archetypes that historically give the deck trouble. If the card is bad, at least we got to discuss why.
I was expecting to face some sort of loam or lands deck but the 2 extraction should be good for that. I think I miser sanctity is good for burn, and some random matchup (like pox or something with Lily, maybe even jace?)
They both seem to have their uses.
Teeg seems like it would have been better to sideout (or just keep in the board)
The mono blue deck was based on pauper faeries? He had echoing truths main deck so that could have possibly hurt the canopy. He bounced fetters to free an attacker to win. Kinda of sucked.
Sigarda was boss as usual.
One of thoughtsieze or IOK worth it?
I'm still torn on E. Tutor. Of course, it seems more useful vs. the unfair decks.
I have another legacy tournament at my big local legacy store this Saturday. I'll see what a different sideboard does.
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