I dunno. The more I think about it, the more I dislike the sorcery-speed part of the card. Destroying Jace as a sorcery is okay, but it costs two, so Spell Snare gets it in addition to all the usual countermagic. Pulse costs one more but also hits equipment and multiples of things, which are both relevant upsides.
If the card had been an instant, it would have been an obvious Terminate replacement. As it stands, I feel like regular Terminate may still be better unless you want to go Pulse-less, something of which I'm not a huge fan. RUG and combo don't run planeswalkers, Maverick might run a few Elspeth but instant-speed Terminate is better there, and Stoneblade's Jaces will be well-protected.
EDIT: There is no card I'd want to cut for Salvage. The card is not good enough.
you're crazy. That card's really good. +1 card (probably a good one, seeing as how all our creatures are bombs) and dig for loam? At instant speed?Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies
That said, it's probably better in a BGx shell, though because it just screams to be built around. Aggro Loam features some red cards that don't want to be shipped to the yard.
This is how I look at it:
I don't want to cut removal for it. I need all my removal because I am a midrange deck and board control is pretty much the only way I can interact with an opponent.
I don't want to cut creatures for it. The deck can often feel creature-light and all of the guys it runs are good, whether at certain points in the game or in certain matchups.
I don't want to cut lands for it. Dropping the land count makes Mox, Loam, and Assault worse, and to be honest, there aren't any lands I want to cut. I need fetches/duals/basics to cast stuff, cycling lands and Wastelands aren't really cuttable because of the synergy with Loam, and I'd want to keep a Stronghold if I was to run this card.
That leaves basically just Sylvan Library, and I think that card is better than this one.
I guess if you are running Faithless Looting or Lilianna, this may be a better use of those slots, but I'm not too keen on those versions of the deck.
never mind. I read that as you get a land AND a creature, not land OR a creature.
yeah, card's dog shit. I got all excited over nothing. Non-blue never gets instant speed CA.
edit:
I really can't emphasize just how disappointed and let down I am. misread FTL.
I would actually run it over Libraries if it hit both a land and a creature. I don't know that it would necessarily make this deck competitive again, but it would help fix the issue of being very clunky in the early game.
Ok, but I don't know who told you this deck isn't competitive.
I'd play Maverick or RUG over it if I still had the cards for either. Combo is pretty good right now and I would not want to pilot this deck in any meta with more than 15% combo.
I read it initially as creature + land
The thing is, who's playing Spell Snare right now? No one.
-Matt
I guess? I haven't been keeping up with the meta recently.I read it initially as creature + land
The thing is, who's playing Spell Snare right now? No one.
-Matt
So yeah, about that Maelstrom Pulse replacement I'd been wanting...
The addition of non-SA burn spells to the deck makes planeswalkers easier to control, though "planeswalkers" means "Jace TMS" probably 75% of the time. Pulse can hit those, and this can't. The rest of the time, this card is going to be miles better because of the cheaper mana cost and uncounterability. Losing the ability to take out multiples of a card honestly feels fine because this costing two is huge. Pulse was ridiculously clunky.
I don't know what the fuck I typed up when I was drinking last night, but this is what I found on my desktop. Looks janky enough to test, but before I do, any suggestions? Not sure if this is a shitty Junk deck or a shitty Loamstyle deck, but figured you guys might have some suggestions.
LANDS:
4x Windswept Heath
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Dryad Arbor
4x Wasteland
2x Savannah
4x Bayou
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Forest
1x Swamp
36
Artifacts:
4x Mox Diamond
2x Sensei's Diving Top
2x Engineered Explosives
SORCERIES AND INSTANTS
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Grisly Salvage
4x Life from the Loam
CREATURE: 16
2x Lotleth Troll
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Tarmogoyf
4x Knight of the Reliquary
4x Dark Confidant
1x Eternal Witness
1x Terravore
SIDEBOARD:
15x Dumb cards
I see no purpose to Lotleth Troll in a deck that runs 16 creatures, none of whom you want to discard. That card much more belongs in some sort of Bloodghasty-recursive creature deck.
You can fuel it with Dryad Arbors. I guess what's why he's running 3 copies.
Trust me, the list is terrible, but I think the synergy with Dryad Arbor, LftL, and the Troll is good. Maybe this belongs more in the deck Living Dead Girl, fueling Troll and Carrion Feeder along with Bloodghast and Gravecrawler.
I came to this thread because I thought there might be a strong synergy between Dryad Arbor, Troll and Seismac Assualt, but last night's brew didn't really turn out that way.
I wonder if this is the two drop that finally dates goyf in this deck. I've been itching to get goofy out of my 75 for a long time. He's just soooo mediocre in every matchup....except the red ones.
So yeah, about that Maelstrom Pulse replacement I'd been wanting...
The addition of non-SA burn spells to the deck makes planeswalkers easier to control, though "planeswalkers" means "Jace TMS" probably 75% of the time. Pulse can hit those, and this can't. The rest of the time, this card is going to be miles better because of the cheaper mana cost and uncounterability. Losing the ability to take out multiples of a card honestly feels fine because this costing two is huge. Pulse was ridiculously clunky.
You shouldn't replace Goyf with a removal spell, IMO. This deck is low on threats as it is and if you remove Goyf you'll only be left with Crusher and probably some Oozes as beaters, which doesn't strike me as aggressive enough.
One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
This, pretty much. The deck is threat-light enough as it is. I would rather replace removal spells with removal spells, and given the amount of burn we have for planeswalkers, I feel like Pulse is the most expendable.
So I played it again today, same standard list i usually do.
Went 4-2, finished 10th :(
Won R1 (2-0) against... stoneblade i believe.
Lost R2 (1-2) against junk. Damn Knight of the Reliquary. He drew them pretty good.
Won R3 (2-0) against Sneak and Show. Yep, 3 MD Liliana, 6 SB discard is some good. I can't believe it either.
Lost R4 (0-2) against Maverick. Again, damn Knight of the Reliquary.
Won R5 (2-0 or 2-1) against Merfolk.
Won R6 (2-1) against RUG. My bob flipped 2 Terravore and 2 Liliana. Otherwise I would have won in 2.
All the players were pretty solid players. Sorry for the brevity of the report, I wasn't entirely sober all day.
So yeah, I am totally on board with Abrupt Decay. Killing Knights will become more and more crucial I think.
Hey all, just wanted to give you a brief report from the SCG Legacy Open in Atlanta this past weekend. I played Aggro-Loam to a top 64 finish going 6-3 with the following list:
Creatures
3 Countryside Crusher
2 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
2 Scavenging Ooze
Planeswalkers
1 Liliana of the Veil
Artifacts
4 Mox Diamond
2 Engineered Explosives
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Life from the Loam
3 Thoughtseize
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Seismic Assault
Lands
2 Badlands
2 Taiga
1 Bayou
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacomb
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Forgotten Cave
2 Tranquil Thicket
4 Wasteland
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Mountain
1 Forest
Sideboard
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
2 Firespout
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Zuran Orb
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Darkblast
My matches went as follows:
R1 vs Goblins: 1-2 (0-1): Kept a slower hand game 1 on draw and got crushed. Boarded in Spouts, Darkblast, and 1 Ancient Grudge. Game 2 went much better, used removal to hold him off and was able to grind out the game. Game 3 he had another fast draw and was able to wasteland/port me early to lock me out of casting my spells.
R2 vs Goblins 2-0 (1-1) Won the die roll this time. Both games I had removal for his early spells. Was able to resolve early goyfs/crushers to keep his creatures at bay.
R3 vs Goblins 2-1 (2-1) Same story as round 1 except I won the die roll and got to start on the play. Kept hands that had removal + early blockers. Game 3 I was able to wasteland his cavern and he was stranded without mana for 4 turns while I built up.
R4 vs Esper Stoneblade 2-0 (3-1) I consider this a good mu for us. Our game plan is bigger than theirs and ancient grudge out of the sideboard is really good against SFM. For boarding, I bring in grudges and REB/Pyroblast.
R5 vs RUG Delver 0-2 (3-2) Both games my opponent had draws that included multiple lands/threats/counters. He was able to resolve and protect delver + Mongoose/goyf. I had wastelands, but for every wasteland I played he seemed to have the fetch to make up for it. It didn't help that I drew fairly threat-light both games, but them's the beats.
R6 vs BUG Delver 2-0 (4-2) Both games I was able to resolve Bob's on turn 1 and my opponent didn't have immediate answers. Game 1, I was at 2 life from being attacked by a delver for 5 turns. I managed to resolve seismic assault with a loam in the yard and a land in hand. I killed the Delver and my opponent had no follow up. Game 2, I fought through 3 Surgical Extraction ripping my wastelands, loams and bob's. Surgical just isn't very effective against us because while it did hinder plan A, I was able to switch gears and rely on Goyf and Crusher to seal the deal.
R7 vs UW Stoneblade 2-0 (5-2) Same story as above. I really feel like this match up is highly favorable for us. They don't really run answers for seismic assault, so resolving one is very, very good. In game 1, my opponent was able to flash in batterskull off of a SFM he was able to protect. I responded by resolving crusher. My opponent attacked into me with crusher and I had multiple cycle lands in hand + loam in the yard to blow him out.
R8 vs WB Stoneblade 2-1 (6-2) Lost the first game off a mull to 6. Opponent led with t1 and t2 discard, leaving me with only lands. I then proceeded to draw land for the next 3 turns while my opponent resolved SFM and flashed in batterskull + sword of fire and ice. Games 2 and 3 were more on par with the other Stoneblade matches. I was able to resolve Bobs and Seismic Assaults.
R9 vs UR Delver 0-2 (6-3) Both games my opponent had pretty solid hands that included delver/guide and burn spells. I boarded in Zuran Orbs, but didn't draw one. I don't know if it would have made a difference. His hand in game 2 was really good, having multiple bolts/chain lightning + delver/guide and fireblast to end the game. These decks also play price of progress, which is very scary for us.
Ended the day at 6-3 which was good for top 64 and a $50 cash prize. This was my first ever cash in a SCG event, so I was pretty happy. I managed to dodge combo all day and stay out of the draw bracket where all of the UW miracle decks were. My sideboard plan for SnT was ensnaring bridge. Most SnT decks don't have an answer for the artifact, outside of SnT'ing an Angel of Despair. The bridge can make our crusher's less impressive, but it completely locks griselbrand/emrakul from ever attacking until it is dealt with, allowing us plenty of time to resolve Seismic Assault.
One thing I wanted to mention, and this is simply just an observational opinion, is my feelings toward UW miracles and, more specifically, Sensei's Divining Top. I really hope that WotC considers banning top in legacy, not because it is overpowered or too good, but because it causes an inordinate amount of draws to occur. A friend of mine was doing really well in the event, sitting at a comfortable 6-2, until he faced against UW miracles is round 8. The game went to time and eventually ended in a draw, which put him in the draw bracket which was filled to the brim with multiple other UW miracle decks. Inevitably, he played against another miracle player in round 9 which also ended in a draw. The 2 draws knocked him out of the money and were strictly caused by both player's over-utilization of Top. Every time a spell was cast or an ability was activated, the miracle players would activate top and spend 10-15 seconds looking at cards and reordering. While 10-15 seconds doesn't sound like much, when you activate top 30-40 times over the course of a match, it adds up.
Top seems much more fair on MTGO because of the way time is kept, more inline with how time is kept in a chess tournament. If the top player spends all his time topping, he loses. In paper magic, the non-top player is punished with a draw because his opponent spent 15-20 minutes of the game durdling around and doing nothing.
Anyway, that's my rant. I know the report isn't super in-depth, but I'm at work right now and don't have access to my notes.
If anyone has ideas of a better sideboard card, other than Zuran Orb, I could use to help combat burn-based decks, please feel free to suggest. Thanks!
I think Top is fine, but I understand what you're doing. I think if my opponent spent more than 5-8 seconds Topping, then I'm calling Judge. It doesn't take that long to reorder 3 cards.
I think they need to have a total time per round to Top, which should be, say, 3-5 mins total.
-Matt
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