All B/R update speculation.

[ahg113]

Kiki-Mite combo exists. Why not Earthcraft-Squirrel's Nest?

No part of the Earthcraft-Squirrel's Nest combo has the keyword Awesome, nor does it enable any shenanigans with cards that have the keyword Awesome. Therefore, it'll prolly stay on the ban list.

[John Cox]

Kiki-Mite combo exists. Why not Earthcraft-Squirrel's Nest?

Because SquirrelZ have The Nutz

[Lemnear]

Because SquirrelZ have The Nutz

Seems valid



Earthcraft has more application than just squirrel nest but I don't know if it isn't ok today. I don't expect Anything to happen at 20th Sept. Sad, because Vintage needs some shakeup

[sdematt]

Survival, why you no come back? Surgical is itching to eat your Vengevines.

-Matt

[Gheizen64]

No changes. MAYBE we could see Twist or Earthcraft off, but i doubt it.

[xeraseth]

Kiki-Mite combo exists. Why not Earthcraft-Squirrel's Nest?

One involves two creatures, one of which is 5 mana. The other involves 2 enchantments, with the most expensive being 3 mana. I am not saying Earthcraft shouldn't be unbanned, but comparing Kiki-Mite vs SquirrelCraft isn't a good comparison.

[kiblast]

I don't expect Anything to happen at 20th Sept. Sad, because Vintage needs some shakeup

Ban fucking Vault, for example. /OT

[John Cox]

Ban fucking Vault, for example. /OT

This is interesteing, because I don't see time vault as a problem card for vintage. However since it's un-errata time vault has dominated vintage entirely, -that's not something that indicates a healthy format.

[dontbiteitholmes]

This is interesteing, because I don't see time vault as a problem card for vintage. However since it's un-errata time vault has dominated vintage entirely, -that's not something that indicates a healthy format.

This is pretty much entirely false.

Dredge and MUD are both 10x as "unhealthy" for Vintage as Time Vault ever will be, and even with them in the format Vintage still seems fine for now.

[Lemnear]

This is pretty much entirely false.

Dredge and MUD are both 10x as "unhealthy" for Vintage as Time Vault ever will be, and even with them in the format Vintage still seems fine for now.

Dunno; I'm kinda tired of "playing" against Dredge and Workshop at least 4 rounds outta 7. It's basically draw 7, reveal hands, compare, Game 2 unless I Start with FoW and/or a broken play against Shop or have a fast Way to grab maindeck graveyard hate against dredge. It's really boring for me and unless they restict bridge from below or Lodestone i doubt something will change in a relevant timeframe. Time Vault was oppressive before gush and Lodestone with T4K in the pool; now it's more in line with Tinker and y.will as a trifecta and less of a problem. However, I listed my Beta power on MkM for Sale and focus @ Legacy atm.

[feline]

The birth of a monster? Gp Ghent - Pietro Cavalletti - Sunday July 22nd
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Taiga
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
16 lands
1 Angel of Despair
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
1 Maelstrom Wanderer
3 Progenitus
4 Shardless Agent
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Terastodon
1 Urabrask the Hidden
4 Force of Will
2 Hypergenesis
4 Misdirection
4 Show and Tell
4 Violent Outburst
-sb
3 Dismember
2 Ingot Chewer
4 Leyline of Sanctity
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Terastodon

Show and Tell is looking more and more cautious, I know the format has been diverse as heck which is awesome, but something that can be this consistent, fast, and have just enough back up to push it through enough, is something that I cannot even ignore myself. 8 Spirit guides, 4 Force's, 4 Misdirections, enough cascades, and then just Show and Tell themselves.

[alekill]

I don't understand why you are bringing that up now. That's almost two months ago and in those two months the deck has done nothing.

Hypergenesis loses to almost any disruption which it can't really fight when the only counters it can viably play are force of will and misdirection. In addition to that brainstorm and ponder are necessary for a combo deck to be able to find it's combo and disruption quickly. By basing your entire deck around a mechanic which disallows you access to the entire 1-2 CC range of cards your just being dumb.

Hypergenesis decks look like a joke when you look at sneak and show and know and tell and even then these decks can be easily beaten.

[Gheizen64]

I don't understand why you are bringing that up now. That's almost two months ago and in those two months the deck has done nothing.

Hypergenesis loses to almost any disruption which it can't really fight when the only counters it can viably play are force of will and misdirection. In addition to that brainstorm and ponder are necessary for a combo deck to be able to find it's combo and disruption quickly. By basing your entire deck around a mechanic which disallows you access to the entire 1-2 CC range of cards your just being dumb.

Hypergenesis decks look like a joke when you look at sneak and show and know and tell and even then these decks can be easily beaten.

This. Hypergenesis came out with the new 1UG cascade, but has posted rare results from then. That deck loses to a lot, a lot of things, including a CotV for 0. It's a good deck but for now isn't posting consistent results.

[xfxf]

If I'm not mistaken that deck had a good feature match on SCG today and Chapin was saying that it was broken and kept saying "I don't know man, that deck seems... I don't know man..." I may be confusing it though as I was busy having a fight with my gf on Skype so don't know really..

[Vacrix]

This is pretty much entirely false.

Dredge and MUD are both 10x as "unhealthy" for Vintage as Time Vault ever will be, and even with them in the format Vintage still seems fine for now.

Vintage is a format that seems to be perpetually unhealthy. Its like two diseased people shitting on each other. I don't know why these comparisons always come up. Vintage can't really be compared to Legacy. The fact is the Legacy metagame is much more adaptable than the Vintage metagame; the DTB changes all the time and new cards have a much bigger impact on existing archetypes and sometimes bring an entirely new deck into the fray.

[rxavage]

The deck Chapin was flipping out about is:


4　《引き裂かれし永劫、エムラクール/Emrakul, the Aeons Torn》
4　《グリセルブランド/Griselbrand》
4　《断片無き工作員/Shardless Agent》
3　《絶望の天使/Angel of Despair》
3　《大祖始/Progenitus》
2　《テラストドン/Terastodon》

4　《実物提示教育/Show and Tell》
4　《Force of Will》
3　《全知/Omniscience》
3　《献身的な嘆願/Ardent Plea》
2　《超起源/Hypergenesis》

4　《サプラーツォの岩礁/Saprazzan Skerry》
4　《吹きさらしの荒野/Windswept Heath》
3　《溢れかえる岸辺/Flooded Strand》
3　《ヒッコリーの植林地/Hickory Woodlot》
3　《霧深い雨林/Misty Rainforest》
2　《Tundra》
2　《Tropical Island》
2　《僻遠の農場/Remote Farm》
1　《Savannah》

side board
4　《虚空の力線/Leyline of the Void》
3　《忘却の輪/Oblivion Ring》
3　《ヴェンディリオン三人衆/Vendilion Clique》
3　《水没/Submerge》
2　《誤った指図/Misdirection》


it isn't going to get past RUG reliably and seems much weaker than Omni-Tell. I think Chapin was right, he don't know.

[alekill]

If I remember correctly Chapin doesn't play or follow legacy. He only does legacy coverage for SCG because he is Patrick Chapin.

[rxavage]

If I remember correctly Chapin doesn't play or follow legacy. He only does legacy coverage for SCG because he is Patrick Chapin.

He is the same one that was saying the SneakShow decks were fair when Gris first appeared and was loling at the chicken littles. This Hypergenescience deck has a worse mana-base than regular Hypergenesis, it runs less cascade spells, and runs less protection. Hypergenesis already had issues resolving through counters with 4 Force and 4 Misdirection, this new incarnation will almost never be able to fight double counter and often will get blown out by a single counter.

[xfxf]

My take on Show and Tell in Legacy is still that, even though none of the Show and Tell decks are overly broken and dominant in the format the card itself became overly dominant as the go-to combo card with around 7-8 established decks around it. Meanwhile other individual combo decks have almost been pushed out of the format. I'd rather have Storm, Dredge and Reanimator in the format than having 8 different Show and Tell decks which basically do the same thing with a different shell. The way I see it this card is currently restricting the way combo decks in the format can be constructed and I wouldn't mind a ban.

Edit: I also like to remind the Mental Mistep era blue decks and Drew Levin's article about the diversity in the format. I don't like his articles in general but his claim was that everybody was basically playing the same strategy with a different shell (5 different versions of Stoneblade). There is a similar situation with Show and Tell currently. For reference here's the article:
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...ur_Weapon.html

[Fizzeler]

I think banning Show And Tell won't hurt the format at all, decks like Hive Mind, Sneak Attack, Dream Halls, and Hypergenesis would just learn to adapt without the card

The Hyperscience deck looks incredibly bad almost no protection and easy to disrupt

I am in no way saying ban Show And Tell, just that some of the Show And Tell decks can play without the card