This has the same problem that Vandal's NO list has -- it doesn't have enough stuff for the "signature card." I've considered Resto Angel before as a possible variant, but it has a very serious problem of not having enough good critters to flicker, and at some point it looks like just a worse Pod list.Originally Posted by .:saturno:.
Nic Fit doesn't believe in the principle of a stalled board. If the board is stalled, you're playing vs a fair deck. If you're playing vs a fair deck, you'll break it open at some point. It might take a little longer, but it -will- happen. If you're in that circumstance, then a GT on defense is probably going to be better than a Progen on offense, because Progen doesn't have vigilance.
Also, NO and Pattern of Rebirth are both interesting cards that seem like they should have their own variants. It never seems to work out when people try them, though.
There shouldn't be a stalled board if you are playing the deck correctly. And if they have enough beaters for a 6/6 death touch and 2 2/2 tokens to have a stalled board, against just ONE progenitus they will be able to race you.
Every card in this deck should offer value. I think in order for Natural Order to do so, you would need to not only take advantage of it grabbing a creature, but also the sacrifice. Therefore I think you may want to go with persist and undying creatures like finks and geist. Maybe Natural Order would work better in an aggro/swarm version.
Missing out on local Legacy tonight due to illness =( I fucking hate being sick.
Anyway, that means I get to sit at a computer for awhile and type some thoughts.
Natural Order in Nic Fit just isn't that good. I've tried it and it's just worse than any other win-con. It takes up too many slots, leaves you with dead cards if you draw Proggy, is card disadvantage (which goes against what this deck tries to do) and we don't actually play that many green creatures so we won't always have one to sac reliably.
As far as the Shaman goes, that guy is fucking cool as hell, but I don't think he's very good here. He would be best in straight G/B and I currently am not going to be playing him. You almost never want to Zenith for him at 1 because an Explorer is almost always better when you want a 1 drop. He has to untap before we get any use out of him which makes him a liability. And let's be real, this deck has the best Scavenging Oozes in Magic with the abundace of green mana we have at our disposal. One shots a turn aren't really what we're looking for even if he does have a marginal upside. Just my initial thoughts on him.
Sorry you're sick. You and the Aes Sedai, eh? Something targeting Nic Fitters?
In addition to your thoughts on the Shaman, there's the fact that he's somewhat reliant on the opponent's game plan. If you don't have a turn one fetchland and neither does your opponent, then you don't get ramp after you spend a turn untapping. If your opponent is playing permanents instead of instants or sorceries, you're left to hit your own graveyard--and I am not interested in exiling my own Cabal Therapies and Pulses, thankyouverymuch. Same with creatures: I want mine in the graveyard, for the most part, to get back with Recurring Nightmare. I don't want to rely on my foe's game plan to get business out of a once-per-turn creature. Yes, he can do things (more or less) no matter what their plan is. Just not always the things you want. The Ooze is both more and less versatile, but the fact that it doesn't tap makes it amazing in comparison.
This post has been getting to big to fast for me to keep up. But I think I'm going to cut white from my deck completely and go straight GB Rector and Sun Titan has been doing wonders but just hasn't been enough lately. Plus the format is to much combo for them to be effective enough for me.
About the shaman, isn't Dryad Militant a lot better vs storm than him? ANT can't cabal ritual effectively or play Ill-Gotten gains plus high tide (if anyone plays it still) will have a greater chance of getting lands when they Time Spiral. Plus the militant allies more pressure.
I have a quick rules question for you folks. If I kill off an academy rector to go get a faith's fetters can the faith's fetters be put on something like Emrakul since it's not being cast?
Short answer: yes.
Also Mongoose.
Yes. Once the rector trigger resolves, they cannot respond to it as well.
I've never had this come up in a game before, and I've always accepted the notion that you can put it onto a Hexproof creature. But looking over the comprehensive rules, I see this:
Can anyone explain why the last line is not applicable here? It seems to me that "other applicable effects" would mean hexproof prevents us from putting the aura on a creature with the ability.303.4f If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player’s control by any means other than by resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn’t specify the object or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the battlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura’s enchant ability and any other applicable effects.
Wait what? Rector allows the enchanting of Hexproof creatures? I understand how you can get an aura on Emrakul (because hes not Hexproof/Shroud), but I have never heard of enchanting a Mongoose before.
My guess is that as the aura enters the battlefield, it is targeting as a permanent, therefore it isn't a spell or an ability anymore. Shroud effects only grant protection from spells and abilities.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
A little update on a small tourny with Scapewish very close to Arianrhod's list except that I played 2x Grave Titans
M1 - Merfolk win 2-0
Nothing much to say here just that I rolled him g1 with a Huntermaster flipping like a bause! G2 bonfire of the damned got a epic 'you really play that card' comment from everyone.
M2 - Dredge lost 1-2
G1 I kept a slow hand after mulling to 6 and get rolled with a quick breakthrough
G2 @ Arianrhod - I LIVED THE DREAM! decked him out after deed stabilized the board and I wished for haunting echoes
G3 Stinking extirpates does not show up! Got therapied to oblivion, top decking w/o a top cannot be won with a couple of jellyfish and zombie beats in time
M3 - Merfolk win 2-0
M1 all over again, Angry Grave Titans and miracling bonfire like a total bause completely crushes em small fishies!
M4 - Nic Fit white win 2-0
G1 he dropped me to 4 while I topdecked scapeshift like a total bause!
G2 we trade creatures hit each other to below 10 while I miracled bonfire him for exact!
Had a great laugh and chat herefinally another nic fit player in my meta
We didn't board out explorers, apparently ramping me kills him thanks to scapeshift
M5 - ANT ID
He is a old friend, happy as hell I do not play him
In top 8
M6 - U/W miracles
O GAWD I HATE THIS MATCHUP
Nothing resolves, even if they do it never mattered as I was too far from the game. Bonfire really sucked here, kept wishing they were maelstrom pulses!
I only won on the back of slow roll Valakuts and Grave Titan tokens in G2, thanks Arianrhod for that heads up!
Looking back I believe it is my lack of knowledge how to play against this matchup, ideas would be good on how to defeat this monster of a deck!
Lastly I would like to thank @Arianrhod for helping me complete my deck and giving useful pointers on how to sb etc!
Here is my list! Enjoy!
Creatures
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Wood Elves
2 Eternal Witness
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thragtusk
2 Grave Titan
Sorcery
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun Zenith
4 Burning Wish
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Scapeshift
Artifact and Enchantment
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei Divining Top
Lands
4 Forest
3 Mountain
2 Swamp
4 Badlands
4 Taiga
3 Bayou
1 Stomping Ground
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
SB
3 REB
2 Extirpate
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Reanimate
1 Haunting Echoes
1 Innocent Blood
1 Pulverize
1 Anarchy
1 Boiling Seas
1 Damnation
1 Memoricide
Thinking of which I will drop Anarchy and Pulverize for 2x Boil to shore up that annoying matchup which is called U/W MIRACLES!
I think it works the same way how Zur can "enchant" himself with auras even with him enchanted with shroud like Diplomatic Immunity with his triggered ability
What hurts us more? Iona, Proggy, or Emrakul?
Tsunami would work better with the burning wish plan.
What cards do they run that give us trouble?
EDIT: versus UW Miracles that is?
Last edited by EpicLevelCommoner; 09-18-2012 at 12:59 AM. Reason: misquote
I got boiling seas for that! Could not find a tsunami at all!!!!
The idea is to crack up 3x island bombers, 1 wishable and 2 to board in and nuke at instant speed
Share the knowledge with others!
My problems with that deck are mostly fow, spell pierce, snapcaster fow, counterbalance.. so its hard to get anything resolved.
Other match I played I eventually died because of jace at turn gazzilion because all my goodies were on the bottom of my library and some bad luck, had no problems with entreat the angels, kederek leviathan helps allot;)
But with the new removal spell in RTR(forgot the name) it will be just another deck, for me counter balance is just nasty and I dont want to run a grip
And to awnser a previous question(I think iona because that can keep you for casting your solution) though its not as devastating if you dont have a direct awnser, then emraku is pretty bad.. it should not attack.
Anyways I dont think they are that terrible at all, they give allot of stress and you SHOULD have awnsers mainboard for those matchups
Btw Boil is pretty sick, also perhaps Boseiju, who Shelters All(GSZ/Intent/intuition/Scapeshift/bonfire/pulse((allot of use in every built)) / cavern of souls(human) though seeing other lists its a bit meh..
I need(want) to incorperate 4x meddling mage MB / so I have at least witness Meddling mage and explorer for Cavern of souls.. havent tried any yet though in my mind it seems viable..
DECK:Combo Control - BUG w EXP
Well done, gratzG2 bonfire of the damned got a epic 'you really play that card' comment from everyone.
M3 - Merfolk win 2-0
Angry Grave Titans and miracling bonfire like a total bause completely crushes em small fishies!
M4 - Nic Fit white win 2-0
G1 he dropped me to 4 while I topdecked scapeshift like a total bause!
G2 we trade creatures hit each other to below 10 while I miracled bonfire him for exact!
Had a great laugh and chat here
We didn't board out explorers, apparently ramping me kills him thanks to scapeshift
M5 - ANT ID
He is a old friend, happy as hell I do not play him
In top 8
M6 - U/W miracles
O GAWD I HATE THIS MATCHUP
Nothing resolves, even if they do it never mattered as I was too far from the game. Bonfire really sucked here, kept wishing they were maelstrom pulses!
I know you encountered a specific meta but in general would you prefer your bonfires to Pulse?
How did 2 Gravetitans work for you, would you keep them in this list?
Last edited by Cire_dk; 09-18-2012 at 07:09 AM.
Currently Playing: Scapefit , Shardless BUG, Team America,
Grave Titan is probably the best finisher for this deck. If not for it not being Green Sunnable it would definitely be the best.
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