Return to Ravnica Spoilers

[alderon666]

He has summoning sickness and only one of his abilities can be activated once a turn. That's a pretty significant downside. He's not better than Noble because he is less consistent and less useful in multiples. He's not better than Ooze because he has summoning sickness and can only activate once a turn.

So... where am I going to use him?

In a deck that wants early acceleration, play a lot of fetches and Wasteland and could use the late game +2/-2 abilities.

Take some BUG variant, that wants to jump a mana ahead in the early game, do some beating and them ping to finish the Opp. Note that he even makes leaving mana open for Stifle/Mana Leak good, because you can use his abilities on EOT if the opp doesn't do anything.

Gotta be funny playing against Dredge on the play:
Turn 1 land, Deathrite Shaman
Turn 1 land, Putrid Imp
Turn 2 land, go

Now if dredge has only one dredger, he can't go off. If he tries to do something you can counter it or even kill the Imp...

[Fizzeler]

Actually I can see Shaman in a BUG Control shell as their Noble Hierarch early game and late game it eats dead creatures and removal spells, I smell a brew coming

[Koby]

Scavenging Ooze is not black. What I mean is: you can't play Scavenging Ooze in a Mono-Black. Deathrite Shaman is a mana dork for mono-black decks or other decks with Black but without Green. Not being able to use its third ability is not a big deal, I think. Those colors had no access to one drop mana dorks before!

Historically, mono-black or non-green black decks have had no use for a mana dork, let alone conditional mana acceleration like Deathrite Shaman. They typically fall under two categories:

1. Board control (sweepers galore)
2. Tempo aggro (suicide, Eva green)

I don't think this Shaman will impact Legacy much more than Birds of Paradise already has, nor more than Scavenging Ooze for g/y hate purposes. It's color combination being partial Green is going to make this dead on arrival for Legacy.

I do see this guy being an interesting role player in Modern which doesn't have access to Scavenging Ooze to filter down Goyfs.

[Annatar]

If I were to make snap judgements on which of the spoiled cards are legacy deck material I would select the following:

Abrupt Decay
Detention Sphere
Supreme Verdict

There are other cards that will see significant sideboard play (most notably R.I.P.), some peculiar choices that might not be universally agreed upon (Dreadbore, Ash Zealot, Ultimate Price, Electrickery, Deathrite Shaman), but these are the three best cards RtR has to offer as far as legacy is concerned.

[catmint]

Actually I can see Shaman in a BUG Control shell as their Noble Hierarch early game and late game it eats dead creatures and removal spells, I smell a brew coming

Should be a BUG deck without deed then... but deed is a bad card anyway and not needed for BUG control decks.

[Shawon]

I think Slaughter Games (uncounterable Cranial) has a lot of fringe applicability in decks that use a Burning Wish toolbox and desire a Cranial effect.

EDIT: Call me crazy, but I think we're just one BR-land version of Grove of the Burnwillows from seeing a formidable Smallpox or black control deck. Having access to P. Fires without splashing green and Slaughter Games would fix some of the shortcomings MBC decks typically encounter post-board.

[Jamaican Zombie Legend]

My guesses on what sees Legacy play:

Highly Likely To See Play In Established Archetypes

Judge's Familiar
Dryad Militant
Abrupt Decay
Supreme Verdict
Izzet Charm

Possible Play in Established Archetypes

Deathrite Shaman
Electrickery
Detention Sphere
Grisly Salvage
Treasured Find

Possible Play in Niche Archetypes/Sideboard

Rest in Peace
Nivmagus Elemental
Blistercoil Weird
Mana Bloom
Sphere of Safety
Ash Zealot


I'm really disappointed in this set. It brings some cool stuff for Legacy, but is a total dud otherwise. I don't like the design of the majority of the cards...there are too many "French Vanilla" cards, way too many boring reprints (Mind Rot), and not nearly enough interesting "build around" cards that can actually work (i.e. Glare of Subdual, Warp World). This is mostly a result of Forsythe's "new world order", in which complexity of any sort is bad. And I absolutely hate how they decided to shift a bunch of utility removal spells to Rare. One of the coolest things about the first Ravnica block was how there were excellent uncommons, and all the great removal spells (Putrefy, Lightning Helix, Wrecking Ball) were either uncommon or common. Too bad they jacked everything up to rare.

I really hope Limited isn't the shitshow it looks like it will be. As I look at things right now, there isn't a lot of common removal and what exists is really, really clunky. That can be okay if the format is designed well for it (Rise of the Eldrazi), but I don't think Return to Ravnica is. For instance, look at these two common creature curves, the UW one and the B/R one.

1
111111111
111111
1111
11
1

11
11111
111111
111
11111
1
11

Also consider that U/W has a lot of aggressive/evasive dudes with the Detain ability, B/R is all over the place, and there is a strong Defender subtheme. My guess is that Azorious is going to wreck house in Sealed. They have low-CMC evasive beaters that give extreme tempo advantage and the only real good low-CMC removal, at common, in Arrest and Paralyzing Grasp. I'm going to be about as happy getting tempo'd out by Skyknights while staring at my 6CMC common removal, wishing it was Last Gasp, as I am getting blown out by dumb bombs and I'm certain no one will like getting murdered by early Pack Rats. This could be another Avacyn Restored style shitshow.

And finally...

Restoration Angel being miscosted

I'm certain they still don't get this. First Thragtusk and now...

Armada Wurm
2GGWW
Creature - Wurm
Trample
When Armada Wurm enters the battlefield put a 5/5 Wurm creature token with trample onto the battlefield.
5/5

More Magic: The Entering (the battlefield).

[Annatar]

Honestly, it's unrealistic to expect that a given new set will contain more then 5 cards that will make a significant impact.

Innistrad:
Delver of Secrets
Snapcaster Mage
Liliana of the Veil
Past in Flames

Dark Ascension:
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Thought Scour (a functional Mental Note but it's worth mentioning)
Faithless Looting
Grafdigger's Cage

Avacyn Restored:
Entreat the Angels
Terminus
Griselbrand
Cavern of Souls

Magic 2013:
Master of the Pearl Trident
Omniscience
Krenko, Mobb Boss

It's like that proverb: The most lethal venom is packed into the smallest of bottles. I think Return to Ravnica will have four, five at most, significant contributions to the legacy card pool and that's about as much as we could have expected.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I think Slaughter Games (uncounterable Cranial) has a lot of fringe applicability in decks that use a Burning Wish toolbox and desire a Cranial effect.

EDIT: Call me crazy, but I think we're just one BR-land version of Grove of the Burnwillows from seeing a formidable Smallpox or black control deck. Having access to P. Fires without splashing green and Slaughter Games would fix some of the shortcomings MBC decks typically encounter post-board.

You can just run Grove as a red land and not use it for mana fixing. This isn't EDH.

[TsumiBand]

Why would anyone ever play Judge's Familliar? How would you ever make that card relevant? Birds.deck?

Spiketail Hatchling used to see play in Vintage, in Fish and Fish/r. This is basically that guy, minus 1 colorless mana. In a deck full of counters, a critter that flies, beats for nonzero damage, wears equipment and pitches to Force if need be shouldn't be so easily discounted.

[Shawon]

You can just run Grove as a red land and not use it for mana fixing. This isn't EDH.

Then Grove is just useless otherwise if it can't produce and you don't have Fires, which is a problem if one of your strategies is attrition a la Smallpox. I'm speaking of decks that rely on said strategy.

[Humphrey]

Honestly, it's unrealistic to expect that a given new set will contain more then 5 cards that will make a significant impact.

Innistrad:
Delver of Secrets
Snapcaster Mage
Liliana of the Veil
Past in Flames

Dark Ascension:
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Thought Scour (a functional Mental Note but it's worth mentioning)
Faithless Looting
Grafdigger's Cage

Avacyn Restored:
Entreat the Angels
Terminus
Griselbrand
Cavern of Souls

Magic 2013:
Master of the Pearl Trident
Omniscience
Krenko, Mobb Boss

It's like that proverb: The most lethal venom is packed into the smallest of bottles. I think Return to Ravnica will have four, five at most, significant contributions to the legacy card pool and that's about as much as we could have expected.

You forgot Lingering Souls and Garruck also saw play in Maverick

[bowvamp]

Does RIP + Energy Field work? If so, I'm building it.
Oh holy crap. It works with Helm of Obedience too.
:) This is my favorite card in all of magic now.

[Lord Seth]

Thought Scour (a functional Mental Note but it's worth mentioning)

Functionally it's a better Mental Note, because there are cases you'd want to do it to your opponent, such as if you're playing Jace's Phantasm or want to counteract a tutor.

[Vacrix]

Historically, mono-black or non-green black decks have had no use for a mana dork, let alone conditional mana acceleration like Deathrite Shaman. They typically fall under two categories:

1. Board control (sweepers galore)
2. Tempo aggro (suicide, Eva green)

I don't think this Shaman will impact Legacy much more than Birds of Paradise already has, nor more than Scavenging Ooze for g/y hate purposes. It's color combination being partial Green is going to make this dead on arrival for Legacy.

I do see this guy being an interesting role player in Modern which doesn't have access to Scavenging Ooze to filter down Goyfs.

I disagree. New archetypes spring to life all the time and I think this guy is powerful enough to create one. As alderon666 was saying, it completely hoses strategies like Reanimator and Dredge (at least on the play). If you want to do that with Scavenging Ooze, you have to wait til turn 3 to have mana open to activate it... by the time they've already gone off. Having a 1 drop thats an active solution to these decks by turn 2 is pretty strong considering its maindeck material rather than sideboard material.

Though GB has traditional had little use for manadorks, this guy provides the mana flexibility of BOP with grave hating potential that hoses a lot of Legacy strategies. This cards gravehating potential has an application against most decks in Legacy, some better than others. Also, with access to GSZ, manadorks can always be useful because they power out a creature with a higher X sooner.

This doesn't even factor in the reach potential. Having reach on a manadork is unbelievable. Its worth noting that Shaman's reach ability says 'Each opponent loses 2 life'. That means it bypasses a few things like Solitary Confinement which gives you shroud and only prevents damage. The reach ability is a perfect way to spend your mana when you don't have anything better to do.. and in a slow match against control (for example) when you might have multiple instances to activate, you can also remove all of the best Snapcaster targets in the process.. or Linger Souls before they get a chance to flashback it.

Also, the fact that this guy removes stuff in the yard as a manadork means the build that plays him will want to compliment him with creatures that don't use the graveyard (except for Scavenging Ooze perhaps). So no Snapcaster Mage, Knight of the Reliquary, Tarmogoyf, Nimble Mongoose, Tombstalker, etc. These are some of the strongest creatures in the format listed above. Shaman is a manadork that makes them less effective or ineffective.

The fact that its a 1/2 all the time means its superior to Noble Hierarch on defense. Hierarch vs. Shaman against turn 1 Lackey is extremely relevant given Goblins current place in the metagame.

From the DTB thread:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...531#post673531

1. UGr Thresh
2. Maverick
3. Miracle Control
4. Blade Control
5. Sneak Attack
6. Goblins
7. Dredge
8. ANT
9. Burn
10. Merfolk

Shaman has a direct application outside of being a manadork against 7 of these decks. Namely the dominance of Thresh and Maverick makes me think Shaman is going to be a powerful manadork that directly conflicts with those strategies. Noble Hierarch, as a comparable manadork, doesn't do any of these things. Removing a Lingersouls, removing a Snapcaster target, stopping Lackey, preventing IGG/PIF loops, shrinking Goose/Goyf, removing a single Dredger, shrinking KoTR, stopping Ooze from getting beefy whilst making the opponent lose life or gaining life yourself makes him a versatile utility one drop while also facilitating a Daze proof Hymn on turn 2, a 3 drop or a X = 2 GSZ. Stuff like Hymn to Tourach and Thoughtseize seems good right now as well, which are probably cards you'd want to run in said emerging GB Shaman archetype.

EDIT:
And GBx just got one of the best removal spells Legacy has ever seen, Abrupt Decay.. which compliments Maelstrom Pulse. Dryad Militant seems like a good one drop to further hate graveyard based strategies like Dredge, Loam, and Snapcaster.

[Lemnear]

Does RIP + Energy Field work? If so, I'm building it.
Oh holy crap. It works with Helm of Obedience too.
:) This is my favorite card in all of magic now.

It does.

I don't like the set. Aside from Nivmagus there's no card to justify any brewing as far as i've seen. We have an upgraded oblivion ring and Wrath which both may suffer more from the Speed of the Format than from the fixed drawbacks in their newer version.

Together with the pretty obvious Decay we have 3 removal spells as the chase-rares in this Set (with Verdict also being buy-a-Box-promo) which feels like a Bad joke.

My favourites (interation) though:

Grizzly Salvage + tombstalker
Treasured find + Gushbond (Vintage)
Rest in Peace as imo the best overall graveyard-hate up to date
Deathrite Shaman the better Bird of Paradise in my Kitchen-table-oldschool-rock

Keep the rest

Spiketail Hatchling used to see play in Vintage, in Fish and Fish/r. This is basically that guy, minus 1 colorless mana. In a deck full of counters, a critter that flies, beats for nonzero damage, wears equipment and pitches to Force if need be shouldn't be so easily discounted.

I wouldn't argue based on something that WAS the case a decade ago. Spiketail and it's friends aren't playable anymore in Vintage. Familiar's application in Legacy is questionable being limited to instants/sorcs AND predictable.

[Valtrix]

Treasured find + Gushbond (Vintage)

They needed more Regrowth effects?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Historically, mono-black or non-green black decks have had no use for a mana dork, let alone conditional mana acceleration like Deathrite Shaman.

We don't know whether they had any such use because they have had such an opportunity.

I doubt the card is good for other reasons, but this is a bad argument.

[lavafrogg]

We don't know whether they had any such use because they have had such an opportunity.

I doubt the card is good for other reasons, but this is a bad argument.

What are your reasons if you don't mind me asking?

[Octopusman]

Spiketail Hatchling used to see play in Vintage, in Fish and Fish/r. This is basically that guy, minus 1 colorless mana. In a deck full of counters, a critter that flies, beats for nonzero damage, wears equipment and pitches to Force if need be shouldn't be so easily discounted.

What's ironic is that in Vintage it wasn't a big deal that hatchling could hit creatures. Unfortunately, judge's familiar can't and in Legacy it is a huge deal.

Love me some Fish'ish creatures, though.