All B/R update speculation.

[sdematt]

The new B&R announcement policy

"Going forward, Banned and Restricted updates will by synchronized with set releases. For each set, starting with Gatecrash, the announcement will be the Monday after the Prerelease, and the effective date will be the same as the release date of the set."

Because apparently, the changing of the seasons isn't a big enough of an occasion for self involved nerds to figure out when something's happening. They assumed we don't go outside to see this happen, methinks.

-Matt

[Leftconsin]

So we don't get to have one or two final weekly tournaments with a card before a ban goes live? It was always like a going away party.

And I'm not really liking synching everything in Magic up to new set releases.

[death]

The next B&R announcement is going to be Jan. 28, 2013. Effective Feb. 1, 2013.

[Koby]

See my signature.

I can haz Value?

*dances a jigg*

[feline]

Oh Wizards, just unban those cards we all know will bomb out like Land Tax, come on now! you can KILL someone on your turn 1, and that's not banned, but making someone discard a bunch of cards is banned? Who is going to put both players into topdeck mode when they can KILL their opponent from the beginning, just unban midtwist already! there's dumber stuff available in the format. >^,^<

[lordofthepit]

I thought they were going to ban Temporal Mastery.

[lavafrogg]

I thought they were going to ban Temporal Mastery.

win

[theBloody]

Thanks god nothing got banned. Faith in WotC restored.

[Einherjer]

Thanks god nothing got banned. Faith in WotC restored.

Yep, atm nothing seems (un)banworthy. The metagame is pretty healthy with Control, Tempo, Aggro and Combo running around. Plus it will shift abit post-RTR...

Greetings

[JanoschEausH]

I think they could have easily unbanned Mind Twist. Thats kinda sad...

[jjjoness']

Primeval Titan banned in EDH. I'm so happy right now :D

[sdematt]

Ugh. But I hearts PrimeTime.

-Matt

[Vacrix]

I think they could have easily unbanned Mind Twist. Thats kinda sad...

They probably just want to move slowly and see how Land Tax is going to work in Legacy (if at all) as well as all the new cards they just released. Honestly, I'd rather see cards like Dryad Militant and Abrupt Decay than see something that used to be powerful like Mindtwist get unbanned. Abrupt Decay is going to be far more relevant than Mindtwist (if unbanned).




@lordofthepit.. lolol nice. I laugh to myself everytime I see the card. So much panic over something so bad.. "OH SHIT! THE FUCK!!?? DUDE THE SKY! FUCKKKKKKKK! ITS.. OH GOD... I THINK I JUST SHIT MYSELF!" "Oh... dude look they printed Explore only its blue and sometimes it costs 7."

[xfxf]

I have also recently experienced that SCM-Gitaxian Probe-Cabal Therapy trio can be as effective as Mind Twist or maybe more. Certainly not fun. I'm not sure if it would mean Mind Twist is safe to ban or if it means we don't need additional unfun empty-your-hand spells.

Edit: I didn't want to double post so I'm editing my previous one. I was curious, what's everybody's take for the future of S&T? It may not be ban worthy but do you think its ban somewhere down the line is inevitable as Wizards keep pushing big boom boom spells?

[Malchar]

I have also recently experienced that SCM-Gitaxian Probe-Cabal Therapy trio can be as effective as Mind Twist or maybe more. Certainly not fun. I'm not sure if it would mean Mind Twist is safe to ban or if it means we don't need additional unfun empty-your-hand spells.

Edit: I didn't want to double post so I'm editing my previous one. I was curious, what's everybody's take for the future of S&T? It may not be ban worthy but do you think its ban somewhere down the line is inevitable as Wizards keep pushing big boom boom spells?

S&T probably won't be banned. The consensus seems to be that the card is on par with the power level of legacy. It's obviously strong, but so are a lot of cards.

You need to have two cards in hand (one of which is S&T) to go off. It's not much different than having something like dark ritual + ad nauseam (need 3 mana, just like with S&T), or painter + grindstone (need 6 mana but you can play pieces one at a time).

It's unlikely that S&T will get much better than it is now. Of course, they will continue printing broken fatties along the lineage of Emrakul, Jin-Gitaxias, Griselbrand, and Omniscience, but they can also print hate cards to counteract S&T if it becomes too strong.

Lots of decks have an irrational fear of combo because they have no way to interact with the combo. The reality is that combo has always existed and will continue to exist, and any serious decks need to be able to interact with it.

[lochlan]

[Show and Tell is] not much different than having something like dark ritual + ad nauseam (need 3 mana, just like with S&T)

To be fair, Show and Tell is usually a bit weaker than Ad Nauseam (provided there are no active taxing effects a la Thalia, obv).

Once the combo player resolves Ad Nauseam--as long as they don't kill themselves with unlucky draws off AN--they almost certainly win the game on the spot. Show and Tell, on the other hand, gives the combo player's opponent an opportunity to drop something that beats Show and Tell (Angel of Despair, O.Ring, Detention Sphere). The exception here is Show and Tell into Progenitus, but it isn't a fast enough clock to win consistently in the current format--hence it doesn't see a lot of play currently, and Griselbrand was quick to replace it in Show and Tell decks.

IMO Show and Tell will be banned if and only if Wizards prints something that wins off Show and Tell, can't be targeted, and is stronger than Progenitus. Emrakul comes close, but misses the mark because it can be targeted by abilities. Something like a Hexproof/Shroud Emrakul or Omniscience. Given that Hexproof is now an evergreen keyword this is certainly possible, but I think probably won't happen in the foreseeable future. Maybe if WotC releases another Eldrazi set or something.

[Malchar]

To be fair, Show and Tell is usually a bit weaker than Ad Nauseam (provided there are no active taxing effects a la Thalia, obv).

Once the combo player resolves Ad Nauseam--as long as they don't kill themselves with unlucky draws off AN--they almost certainly win the game on the spot. Show and Tell, on the other hand, gives the combo player's opponent an opportunity to drop something that beats Show and Tell (Angel of Despair, O.Ring, Detention Sphere). The exception here is Show and Tell into Progenitus, but it isn't a fast enough clock to win consistently in the current format--hence it doesn't see a lot of play currently, and Griselbrand was quick to replace it in Show and Tell decks.

I generally agree with your analysis, but I'll add a few more points.

I think that the main disadvantage of ad nauseam compared to other combos is that your entire decks needs to be dedicated to it. Ad nauseam or other storm decks usually only get better when wizards prints very competitively-costed rituals, tutors, or free mana sources, which is pretty much not going to happen anymore. It can also get improved using cheap disruption spells like silence, duress, or spell pierce, but all of those cards usually work just as well against storm decks, so it ends up being a wash.

S&T seems to be getting better every expansion. Wizards invariably prints some kind of insane bomb where the only disadvantage is the huge mana cost, which is exactly the part that you get to avoid when using S&T. Of course, given the bombs that already exist, I can't foresee anything better getting printed. We seem to be at a place of relative stability in terms of cards being printed for combo decks. Now it's just a matter of fine-tuning the meta.

The other advantage of S&T is that you can easily toss in other combos or even play it in a semi-"normal" deck, just like how natural order + progenitus was tossed into RUG decks. To compare, you can't just "toss" ad nauseam or tendrils of agony into a normal deck and expect it to work.

[Infinitium]

Add to the fact that AdN is effectively [multiple ritual effets] -> [tutor] -> [AdN]. Playing ~14 lands, no free counters and only 1-2 copies of AdN does not a good comparison to SnT make.

[ramanujan]

On April 17th of this year, I had come to an impass on a discussion of the viability and banworthyness of a card that was only spoiled at the time. I offered a pretty big bet, which was refused. In my frustration, I simply stated the following.

I can see you are not interested in my offer, which was and remains sincere. Either way, I will post that I was right on October 17th.

I have no more to say on this issue

Here we are and this is what I now have to say.

DragoFireHeart was pretty convinced that Temporal Mastery was going to be so good that it may require a ban. Time has a way of revealing whether predictions are right. I think it is now pretty obvious that Temporal Mastery is not so good that it requires banning. In fact, it is not the best or second best miracle. It was simply a card that appeared amazing because it seemed similar to Time Walk.

With all due respect, I was right on this issue and you were mistaken, DragoFireHeart.

[SaberTooth]

oh, sweet revenge