How does the ETB trigger work? The Player who plays Omniscience has priority so he can cast emrakul/griselbrand in response to Grip? Or do I Miss something?Originally Posted by jrw1985
The SnT player has priority correct, but he can't cast creatures/sorcerys because the stack isn't empty. Only after the ETB Trigger resolved but before this happens, you (the goblin player) casts the grip.
ok so with a Grip in Hand you can win against omniscience. Thalia
Holly :-)
but if the SNT Player casts a creature of SNT instead of omni then only Angel or Sting will help. so Angel remains the best sideboard card against them as it is universal concerning all their win conditions :-)
My dilemma here is that Angel of Despair is so narrow and still does not answer all their win cons.
SnT -> Emmy: check.
SnT -> Omniscience: check, but only if his win cons are creatures and/or sorceries.
SnT -> Hive Mind: you destroy Hive Mind, he can still respond with Pacts.
In this aspect K.Grip is better, along with Stingscourger for the first instance. Of course this is entirely dependent on your meta since the Hive Mind and OmniTell with Pacts variants are not as popular AFAIK. Also, K.Grip is far from being a narrow card.
I'm a big fan of the ole Grip.
But without any form of manaramp/acceleration I'm not sure.....
But I gotta ask;
You peeps who are splashing green for it, is there any other things you've considered splashing in that colour?
Reverent Silence or Nature's Claim are other options i guess, they're counterable for sure, but they do have that element of surprise.
I've not tried using them in Goblins, but in other decks I have they've been a great way to catch a player tapping out, or using up one of their Force's at least.
Pyroblast works on 2 of your three in that list, with maindeck Stingscourger for Emmy/Grisel.
The thing that has me wondering about Grip is that SnT decks can get their biz on the board on turn 2 potentially.
If we're on the draw - you're hoping......
Considering how many targets we have for opponents' waste's, and how unlikely we are to have 3 mana when they're going off before our turn 3, I'd favour Pyroblast/REB over Grip for combo matchups - especially Omni.
My friend asked me to build the Goblin deck for him - so here I am trying to make sense of it!!
You are correct here. I am not a fan of splashing for hate, so REB/Pyroblast is my first go-to options. It does answer the first 2 on the list, but Hive Mind is an obstacle for me here personally.
KGrip does have slowness as its vulnerability, so if your problem is SnT, OmniTell variants only, I think mulling to REB/Pyroblast with/or Stingscourger MAY BE enough.
why don't you simply concentrate on SnT? 4REB + 4Pyroblast (or something that close) should grant you the win... (also the matron/stingscourger plan is fine).
I just don't like the Angel splash
There are maybe no other deck (other than Stasis, MUC or Spiral Tide, ok...) That you'd want to put 8 Rebs in. Also, it's kind of a flawed plan, since they can Burning Wish (red) for Overmaster (red) and get an Emrakul/Grizzle into pay (or even cast Emrakul from Omniscience if you don't have an ETB guy on your hand). And, if you get paired against Sneak Attack, Reb kind of sucks.
I have another (2) hipotetical situation (thanks Jon for answering the last one):
You're on the draw G1 against UW/Esperblade. He goes T1 Plains into T2 Island, Stoneforge/Batterskull. Your T1 you play Skirk Prospector, and T2, having 2 Mountains into play, and a hand 2 lands, Warchief, Piledriver, MWM, Matron (no Gempalm).
You'd you attack? I mean, he doeen't know you don't have Gempalm. Would he risk trading Stone on this moment of the game for 1 dmg? Does anyone think if it is worth attacking? Attacking may also gives information on how he plays the game too, and that may be worth later.
The 2nd scenario is just like the 1st, but you play a badlands T2, and have in hand Mountain, Chrome Mox, Earwig Squad, Piledriver, MWM, Ringleader. In this case, dealing 1 point of damage on him would be nice since you could then play Mox and Squad on that turn, which is quite awesome. Is it worth taking the risk now?
Thanks.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
I would look at the risk/reward for these situations. In scenario 1, the risk is that he blocks and you lose your Prospector. The reward is one damage getting through. It's a pretty low risk/low reward situation IMO. Personally I wouldn't go for it because Prospector can be valuable later and I'm not sure 1 damage would make the difference (especially with an incoming Batterskull).
In the second scenario, the risk is the same but the reward is much greater. Being able to prowl Earwig would be sweet. So in that case I'd probably go for it. Just my 2c.
Only the heroic and the mad follow mountain goat trails.
Just curious here;
How does Goblins with discard play out?
Instead of looking for ways to counter or destroy SnT/Sneak/Hive - would trying some Thoughtsieze & Duress be worth a try?
If they just force it, at least we've dealt with that.....
Scenario #1: Pretty terrible attack. Skirk Prospector is one of your better cards against Stoneblade, especially with Mogg War Marshal in hand. Trading that for 1 damage seems like the worst thing ever, especially since your opponent is likely to land Batterskull and force you to play the long game.
Scenario #2: I probably don't attack, but I'm more likely to attack if my opponent is a "good" player who might overthink things. Also if my opponent has cards like Umezawa's Jitte or Humility in his deck that I really want to remove. Otherwise, dropping a 5/3 is nice, but I don't think it's enough to win the game; your best bet is still grinding things out. I probably go Mogg War Marshal, with 1 mana open; sacrifice the MWM for a token and a mana, then play Piledriver to hopefully bait out a FoW to enable a Ringleader on turn 3.
I don't think I would attack into his Mystic here without a trick of some sort (Gempalm etc.). Prospector is too good vs. the Batterskull/Jitte out of his deck to risk it. However, I also don't think that my opponent would risk his Mystic to prevent one damage...so it's really a toss up.
Here I think the upside is better than the downside, however the Badlands might give the Squad away and make him more likely to block. The nice thing is that he probably isn't expecting Chrome Mox, so you might get to sneak it right in.
Scenario #1
Your opponent at this point doesn't know if you have a Gempalm and are baiting a block to burn out the SFM.
What your opponent does know is your Skirk is a card that can blank his BS. Whether or not you have Gempalm should become a secondary consideration for your opponent at this point. They know you're giving them an opportunity to kill Skirk, and Skirk is a card they will have to eventually answer anyway if they want to get BS online.
Therefor, I think it is correct for your opponent to block Skirk, which makes it wrong for you to throw him at your opponent. Better to sit back with the Skirk Prospector and cast a Mogg War-Marshal.
Scenario #2
If you manage to prowl in Earwig Squad you will still have to deal with their BS in hand. Which you can't do if they've blocked your chump-attacking Skirk. Also, if they Daze Earwig you've just 2:1'd yourself and cleared your board. Strong play.
This is 100% correct. They will have to kill the Skirk Prospector in order to make their equipment relevant (which is how they don't die in this MU). If they have no spot removal, you just gave them the out they needed by offering up one of your better answers to equipment.
It's the same whether or not you have Earwig Squad or 20 Gempalms in hand. If they have no removal, they need to make the block.
As a rule of thumb, I never attack with Skirk Prospector against Esperblade, Stoneblade, or any other deck with equipment for that matter, except for the alpha strike (and even then only when extremely necessary.)
Let them handle the problem of removing him, don't give them chances.
I would not attack.
1) If he blocks, I'm down a body, he now knows I don't have gempalm, and I lose an ability I might be able to use to later (either for a quick mana boost to drop down my other goblins and hit with piledriver if he makes a mistake).
2) It hardly seems worthwhile considering the risk-reward for -1 damage.
Now the risk-reward is much better, essentially it makes attacking much more attractive because I could cut his win cons. However, I still would not attack.The 2nd scenario is just like the 1st, but you play a badlands T2, and have in hand Mountain, Chrome Mox, Earwig Squad, Piledriver, MWM, Ringleader. In this case, dealing 1 point of damage on him would be nice since you could then play Mox and Squad on that turn, which is quite awesome. Is it worth taking the risk now?
Thanks.
If I use chrome mox to play earwig I'm down 3 cards from my hand and that leaves me with either piledriver or MWM and a mountain. Which means next turn I may not have any cards in my hand and/or nothing to cope with what he might have in his hand. Instead I have to hope I get some good draws and/or the rest of his hand won't stop me and/or he doesn't get any good draws.
Attacking with earwig can tilt the game in my favor, but it won't necessarily win me the game out right and it could definitely blow up in your face.
This is an "all in" play, and I'm a bit more conservative in these situations. If my "all in" won't net me the game outright, it's not worth the risk.
Well.. played in a 50 people tournament.. 6 rounds..dropped after round 4.. My friends wanted to go and actually I had no fun either =(.
Played 10 games (2-0, 2-1, 1-2, 0-2) and not a single one was fun to play..
M1 0-2 vs Belcher, the match had 3 turns..
M2 2-0 vs Dredge, he did nothing (unlucky dredges g1, really weak hand g2)
M3 2-1 vs Spiral Tide, G1 I had the t4 kill..but he started and went of t4.. G2 he did nothing, G3 he mulls to 5 doing nothing.
M4 1-2 vs Rest in Piece-Combo.. He allways has the t2/3 Energy Field while I can't draw a REB/Pyroblast nor anything useful.. He lost the first game because he drawed to many cards with enchantress and had to discard, destroying the field.
10 boring games =(.
List was okay I guess.. similiar to the last one, -2 Fanatic +2 Pyrokinesis (expected a lot of Goblins, was right btw.) -1 Stingscourger +1 Krenko.
Thanks for everybody that answered! Really appreciated =]
Those was some fucked up matchups you played against. Better luck on the pairings next time...
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Jim Davis playing Goblins right now in the Top 4 at SCG Providence. Best of luck to him. He's supposed to be playing 12 Post in the Semis. Not a horrible MU.
Another good showing with a green splash and no Krenko.....don't wanna say I told you so :)
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