@Ryno: Regarding your Moat problem, have you considered running either Teferi's Moat or Dueling Grounds as cheap alternatives? Island Sanctuary really doesn't seem like the path you want to take (grounding yourself without cards until the opposing player finds an answer and swarms you). It also doesn't do anything against fish, a matchup where Moat usually shines.
With Teferi's Moat you no longer have the problem of grounding your own non-flyers, so you can use Thrun. It does the same as Moat versus tribal, seeing as those decks are mostly mono-colored, though I'm not sure how it fares against other decks in comparison to the more pricey original.
Dueling Grounds might also fit well in Nic Fit seeing as we usually have the biggest non-Eldrazi creatures in Legacy, although it might need a more flying or trampeling approach so that your threat doesn't get chumpblocked.
I have no idea how well these cards will eventually fair in the deck, but to me they seem like better alternatives to Moat than Island Sanctuary will ever be.
Duals vs Shocks is... well duals versus shocks. I might suggest buying 1 of each dual, and playing shocks/basics (this deck loves basics) for the others. There are going to be games where you need to need the flexibility a dual offers, but your opponent insists on Lava Spiking you to death. It really does make a difference versus aggro matchups, where that 2 life or a potential "time walk" effect is going to be the difference between winning or losing. If you look around, MOTL is a good resource, you should be able to get an SP Bayou, Savannah, and Scrubland for about $170-180.Originally Posted by Ryno
Heaths matter if you are running more basics, but honestly, you shouldn't have too much trouble. Just up your Zendikar fetches
Vindicate vs Maelstrom pulse, shouldn't be too much difference. The main reason, in my mind, for the split is to dodge Extirpate effects.
Thragtusk vs Finks, absolutely needs to be Thragtusk. Finks will not replace Thragtusk. If you spend extra money on anything, do it on this. Thragtusk is such an unbelievable house, a nessecity if you do need shocks, and aggro decks have a rough time dealing with the extra body. That Neanderthal with the Lava Spikes? Yeah, he can't deal with Thragtusk.
Moat vs Island Sanctuary, I agree with Nihilis. I would go towards dueling grounds in your case. Save up for that Moat though, it does win games on it's own (oh hello Goblins... you lose).
Sigarda vs Thrun, if you are cutting the moat, you need to keep the Sigarda. You need a solid fatty and something that doesn't die to spot removal (especially with Dueling Grounds). The same with Baneslayers and Kokushkos, if you need to stay on a budget, they are going to do a lot more work for your deck.
Chains vs ???, Chains is... meh. If you go with it and are on a budget, you should be able to find a MP-SP Italian one in the $35-40 range. Honestly, Chains isn't going to win you games, from my experience (with U/B Merfolk) I like Nether Void, in which case a beater Italian one is around $65.
So, in my mind, you should buy 1x Bayou, 1x Scrubland, 1x Savannah, 1x Thragtusk, and 1x Sigarda, which should put you out $200-220ish if you use sites like MOTL. You might be able to find people locally willing to sell for less than retail but more than a store buylist, so talk to your local players.
If you can't get the duals now right now, you absolutely need Baneslayer, Kokusko, Sigarda and Thragtusk. If you run Dueling Grounds, keep with the 5/5s, and snag a Sigarda too. The $30-35 you spend on Thragtusk and Sigarda will be well worth it.
@ Arianrhod: I wonder if it would be worth creating a budget list, trimming some duals and the Moat? I wonder if it's a Rector version or a G/B version?
One of the reasons I chose this deck besides how fun it is is that bayous are relatively cheap and they're all you need if you go straight G/B. I maybe spent around $350 on the entire deck.
Not having a moat and using dueling grounds till your next paycheck is one thing, but shocklands, no sigarda and finks>thrag are pretty dramatic alterations to the deck...
We do have a Budget Discussion Section.
If you really want a cheap version of the deck, you definitely want to go GB. You can build a totally optimized list for like ~500-350$ if you use ebay and stuff. An optimized rector list isnt going to get any cheaper than 1200-1500$.
To all those who also plays with Punishing Nic-fit i already revise my current deck list.
Punishing Nic-Fit
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Grave Titan
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Broodmate Dragon
4 Green Sun Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Punishing Fire
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Diabolic Intent
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
2 Bayou
2 Swamp
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Mountain
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
Sideboard:
3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Slaughter Games
2 Thoughtseize
2 Pyroblast
2 Extirpate
1 Red Elemental Blast
----------
feel free to comment
My friend borrowed my recent 4-color list and took it to the Dutch Championship trial and played it to the Finals & get byes with it :D
Decklist:
22 Lands
2 Bayou
1 Flooded Strand
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
1 Savannah
2 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
3 Verdant Catacombs
15 Creatures
3 Academy Rector
4 Baleful Strix
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer
23 Other spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Diabolic Intent
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Future Sight
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Moat
1 Omniscience
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Vindicate
Sideboard (15)
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Humility
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Memoricide
1 Nether Void
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
Matchups:
Wins: PSI - UWb Landstill - Stoneblade - (in Semi's) Infect
Draws: Infect - BUG Landstill
Losses: (in Finals) Stoneblade
If anyone has specific questions, please ask :)
Shouldn't there be a tutor for Emrakul like Empath in there?
Diabolic Intent can tutor Emrakul too!! ;)
Empath is a significantly stronger and more reliable tutor imo. Especially off Omniscience since you don't need a guy.
How significant of a difference is there between CMC 3 and CMC 4 for this archetype? I'd like to include a non-conditional tutor effect in the Future Fit list, but Grim Tutor's 3 life loss really looks terrible, and I'm fairly creature light to run Diabolic Intent. That leaves Diabolic Tutor
Most general way to "go off" is saccing a Rector to Intent, getting both Omniscience and Emrakul, immediatly casting it.
Both of us never had any problems in finding the Emrakul, because you play 3 Tops, 4 Brainstorms and a Future Sight for speed-digging.
Right. Forgot about that. Ignore me.
The extra mana is probably too much since the card does not actually have a physical impact and Grim Tutor is definitely easier to chain with another card.
Some great input there Arianrhod.
The idea about Angel or Serenety was interesting. I will test her out for sure for the tournament. Also STE is a good suggestion along with Deathrite Shaman (Dredge you can handle with SB)
Finished playing the Dutch Legacy championship. 118 players
Result 1-3-3
First of all I would like to give my respect to anyone who can write a proper match report. Because the matches are so long I tend to forget what was played at what point. I also do not have time to write things down because of time restrictions. Others seem to remember every play. Is it my memory or are there ways to report and remember this properly?
As you understand this report will be very short but hopefully it has some use to somebody out there.
Round 1 Infect:
Game 1:
A very long first game where his plaque stingers get me 8 infect. I cast Pulse and explorer and rector grind him down untill thragtusk provides the last 5 points for the win.
Game 2:
Out: Empath, Yosei, Sun Titan
In: Humility, Raking Canopy, Memerocide
I have to mull to 4 cards because my hands contain no lands. He plays Plaque stinger, gets 2 in play with Jitte and finishes me very quickly
Game 3: We run out of time.
Draw 1-1
0-0-1
Round 2 Stoneblade:
Game 1 :
I can't get anything going and most things are being countered. At one point he drops batterskull to attack for the win, when I point out he did not attach a germ token so Batterskull cannot attack!He was not happy but managed to win the game the next turn anyway.
SB? In harmonic sliver and 2 carpet of flowers, out 2 explorers and ?
Game 2 :
A lot like game 1. I never managed to get a board position and loose.
0-2
0-1-1
Round 3 MUD/cloudpost :
Game 1 and 2 I did not manage any impact. His mana acceleration was very fast and being able to cast lodestone golem early did me no favours. Together with gaining life from glimmerpost it was impossible to win.
A humility in game 2 helped only for a short while
0-2
0-2-1
Round 4 BUG Control playing standstill :
Again not a good match up. He has to many counters and I am unable to keep my threats on the board for long enough.
0-3-1
Round 5 Countertop Miracles:
Game 1:
In short, he manages to entreat for the kill.
SB in 3 x carpet, 1 x raking canopy, 1 x cranial extraction , 1 x memerocide, Out; 4x explorer, 1 x moat, ?
Game 2:
I manage to drop an early deed and Faiths Fetters and Sigarda keep Jace from doing anything silly. Sigarda for the win. Memorocide for his terminus did help quite a bit
Game 3: No time anymore
1-1
0-3-2
Round 6 Dredge:
I always had difficulties understanding this deck and because of that I lost most of the time.
This time however I managed to win game 1 because I was lucky and moat proved very usefull, SB out empath, yosei, sun titan, In Extirpate , Deathrite shaman Game 2 he does what dredge does.
Game 3 seems over when he casts Griselbrand but I topdeck Baneslayer. We go into extra time and draw.
1-1
0-3-3
Round 7 Countertop miracles:
It is obvious this player is not very familiar with the deck and does not play it very well. It is a long and grindy game where an early deed, Baneslayer and Sigarda seal de deal. With only a few minutes left and a long day behind us we decise not to start a second game and I finally have a win.
1-0
1-3-3
Afterthoughts:
I wondered several times during the day if scapewish would have been better?
On the other hand; Moat and Sigarda where fantastic.
Recurring nightmare does not seem to get me out of trouble much and I wonder if the empoth Yosei , Titan slot cannot be used better?
I had a good time and I am very excited about the options this deck offers. It is difficult but very rewarding so I will continue to practice and hope to do better at the Belgian Legacy Cup
Currently Playing: Scapefit , Shardless BUG, Team America,
Viridia, that list is sweet. I just played it a couple times on Cockatrice and it looks like a lot of fun. It seemed like it took a lot of work to really do anything though, since there isnt the option to just put them on a clock like there is with G/B, which I usually play. How is the matchup against combo?
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Starved Rusalka
2 Eternal Witness
1 Acidic Slime
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Brainstorm
3 Living Wish
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Diabolic Intent
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
3 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Angel of Despair
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Magus of the Future
1 Laboratory Maniac
3 Carpet of Flowers
7 Mudhole
by the way here is my BGW Nic-Fit
BGW Nic-Fit
Creatures : 14
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Academy Rector
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Thragtusk
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Eternal Witness
Spells : 24
4 Green Sun Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Nether Void
1 Faith Fetters
1 Diabolic Intent
Lands: 22
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Forest
3 Bayou
3 Swamp
2 Windswept Heath
1 Plains
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Karakas
Sideboard : 15
3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Hymn To Tourach
2 Cranial Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
2 Extirpate
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Humility
1 Qasali Pridemage
The Matchup against combo is about the same as with the normal Rector lists i think.
You board in some discard and extirpate effects and try to get Nether Void online asap. The added "Combo Emrakul kill" does help abit tho.
And yes, it does a whole lot of nothing/controlling everything untill you find Emrakul/Omniscience :P
Since I see all these list appearing again I have a question. Which Nic Fit Version puts down the quickest clock. I am aware we play a control deck but when I read tournament reports I often note a lot of player having draws. (the judge called me king of draws the last tournament and he knew for whom to look if not all results where handed in yet
Is there a way to improve this. Is punishing Nic Fit faster for example, or straight GB? Your thoughts please.
Currently Playing: Scapefit , Shardless BUG, Team America,
I suppose ScapeWish doesn't go in time too often, due to the nature of a 1 card combo?
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