[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

[TPurcell]

Don´t know in what kind of meta you play, but my confidants or my mystics, after searching a batterskull, eat removal all the time. A little bit of protection really annoys my opponent. Which I like.
Also, how does BB affect the board the same Turn as LS? BB: T1 Play it, T2 produce Token, T3 attack. LS: T1 Play it + 2 Tokens T2 attack, T3 play it perhaps again. So when you, at its best, attack with two creatures Turn 4 ill attack with four creatures Turn 4. You´ll catch even in Turn 6.
Additionally it´s very nice drop two creatures at once. Jace cant return two creatures in one turn. Liliana cant make me dacridice two in one turn. Scroll cant hit two at once. How often did I witness that my opponent somehow deals with my Faerie-tokens one after another while I had to deal with the lifeloss + a jitte, that waswaiting unused on my side of the board.

Again, I do not consider BB a weak card. I do like it more than LS in terms of Playstyle. It just fits me more. But currently it would be the card i board out in most situations.

Exactly how are you playing LS on turn one? I don't know what kind of build your running but to cast a 3cc spell on turn 1 with deadguy is pretty impressive. If you have to drop 2 chrome moxes on turn one to play a lingering souls, you may want to rethink your play style hahaha

[igri_is_a_bk]

Would you play Aether Vial in this deck? No. That's the same reason you don't play Mother of Runes. The fact you have a creature to protect does not justify Mom. Nearly all Legacy decks have creatures they'd like to protect. But when your creature (and threat) count is low, you can't, nor want, to waste space on Mom. The way you annoy your opponent is discard, board destruction, and superior card advantage to bury them once they get behind. It isn't giving your Confidant pro-white. That is what Maverick does because they don't play black. Use your first turn to take their removal out of hand, and play out your creature turn two.

As for BB, you can play it or not. Obviously it's your choice. It's a boss against the two biggest decks, and will definitely be in my 60. I'm not sure how this confused you, but what I meant is Lingering Souls makes tokens on turn three, and BB starts to make tokens on turn three. Additionally, I'm not sure how this is relevant to discuss because I'm not trying to replace one with the other.

Why do you say you'd board out BB most of the time? You need to give some reasons to back up a claim like that.

[Valech]

Exactly how are you playing LS on turn one? I don't know what kind of build your running but to cast a 3cc spell on turn 1 with deadguy is pretty impressive. If you have to drop 2 chrome moxes on turn one to play a lingering souls, you may want to rethink your play style hahaha

Durr. It´s from the point of view when it hits the battlefield. If they hit the field simultanously LS is stronger. If you argue, that BB can hit the field one Turn earlier I´d answer, that I like a T2 Confidant or mystic more.
Oh, and even IF you play Bitterblossom one Turn earlier you still will need to wait to Turn 5 to draw even in terms of Tokens.

@ Igri:
Especially ina deck with low creature count you try to protect your creatures. they usually serve a purpose aside from beating an opponent senseless. Sure, the generic Aggro player will want to protect his Goyf, too, but if we destroy it it isn´t like there ain´t other threats in his hand. How do you plan to bury your opponent through superior card advantage when your confidant ate a StoP?
My point is, that you need mother to enhance the things in your deck you need to annoy your opponent.

[igri_is_a_bk]

Durr. It´s from the point of view when it hits the battlefield. If they hit the field simultanously LS is stronger. If you argue, that BB can hit the field one Turn earlier I´d answer, that I like a T2 Confidant or mystic more.
Oh, and even IF you play Bitterblossom one Turn earlier you still will need to wait to Turn 5 to draw even in terms of Tokens.

@ Igri:
Especially ina deck with low creature count you try to protect your creatures. they usually serve a purpose aside from beating an opponent senseless. Sure, the generic Aggro player will want to protect his Goyf, too, but if we destroy it it isn´t like there ain´t other threats in his hand. How do you plan to bury your opponent through superior card advantage when your confidant ate a StoP?
My point is, that you need mother to enhance the things in your deck you need to annoy your opponent.

The value you place on Mother of Runes is completely wrong. It's because you play even fewer threats than I do if you don't use BB. Between BB, Souls and Sorin, I don't care as much about spot removal. If it hits my SFM or Confidant, then fine. Such is legacy. I'm not wasting slots to potentially protect eight cards. This is still assuming you didn't strip the removal from their hand turn one. Besides, I get Jitte more often than Batterskull because my deck is heavily token oriented so the damage is already done with SFM.

I bury my opponent with cards like SFM, Confidant, Souls, Therapy, BB, Jitte, Liliana, and Sorin. Then the same efficient one for ones everybody plays.

You never answered my question about BB, either.

[TPurcell]

Durr. It´s from the point of view when it hits the battlefield. If they hit the field simultanously LS is stronger. If you argue, that BB can hit the field one Turn earlier I´d answer, that I like a T2 Confidant or mystic more.
Oh, and even IF you play Bitterblossom one Turn earlier you still will need to wait to Turn 5 to draw even in terms of Tokens.

@ Igri:
Especially ina deck with low creature count you try to protect your creatures. they usually serve a purpose aside from beating an opponent senseless. Sure, the generic Aggro player will want to protect his Goyf, too, but if we destroy it it isn´t like there ain´t other threats in his hand. How do you plan to bury your opponent through superior card advantage when your confidant ate a StoP?
My point is, that you need mother to enhance the things in your deck you need to annoy your opponent.

I actually like LS a lot more than BB at this point and agree that it is more useful in almost every situation at the moment. On turn 2 (or turn 1 if your using a Chrome Mox) I want to be casting SFM or BOB with a hopefull SFM activation turn 3. BB is most dominant against a more control oriented deck but LS is useful in any matchup.

[Valech]

The value you place on Mother of Runes is completely wrong. It's because you play even fewer threats than I do if you don't use BB. Between BB, Souls and Sorin, I don't care as much about spot removal. If it hits my SFM or Confidant, then fine. Such is legacy. I'm not wasting slots to potentially protect eight cards. This is still assuming you didn't strip the removal from their hand turn one. Besides, I get Jitte more often than Batterskull because my deck is heavily token oriented so the damage is already done with SFM.

I bury my opponent with cards like SFM, Confidant, Souls, Therapy, BB, Jitte, Liliana, and Sorin. Then the same efficient one for ones everybody plays.

You never answered my question about BB, either.

First of all, "Such is Legacy" is neither a good reason nor an excuse for losing keycards to spotremoval. Second, "strip the removal" sounds like a) they only run few removals, at least less than I run removal and b) that the scariest thing in their hand is the removal. third, I don´t care about my Spirits/Vampires/Faeries being removed, I care about important cards being removed. I don´t see why one wouldn´t want to protect them. Did I mention, that Mother at its worst still means to be able to block goyfs, knights and co. without loss of your blocker?

To answer your question, which I have sadfully overread, if I ask myself what I need against certain deck I of course also ask myself what I need to board out. When it came to BB the answer often was "too slow", "no additional lifeloss", "won´t have much impact against combo", s"creams for spellpierce" or simply added up "won´t help as much as other cards".

[igri_is_a_bk]

First of all, "Such is Legacy" is neither a good reason nor an excuse for losing keycards to spotremoval. Second, "strip the removal" sounds like a) they only run few removals, at least less than I run removal and b) that the scariest thing in their hand is the removal. third, I don´t care about my Spirits/Vampires/Faeries being removed, I care about important cards being removed. I don´t see why one wouldn´t want to protect them. Did I mention, that Mother at its worst still means to be able to block goyfs, knights and co. without loss of your blocker?

To answer your question, which I have sadfully overread, if I ask myself what I need against certain deck I of course also ask myself what I need to board out. When it came to BB the answer often was "too slow", "no additional lifeloss", "won´t have much impact against combo", s"creams for spellpierce" or simply added up "won´t help as much as other cards".

I know it looks appealing to protect SFM and Confidant, but you really don't need it. Your discard should do her job already, while being good against combo. I don't want StP and Mom in my Deadguy deck. That's too many potentially dead cards for game one. Your creatures need to be high impact when you play so few, and Mom is not individually good. Mom is only good turn one, followed up by SFM or Confidant turn two. The odds for that happening are approximately 26%. You can double check that to make sure I did it right. [(1-0.3464)*(1-0.6005) = 0.2611]. You can obviously top deck the SFM or Confidant later, but if that Mom had been BB in those vacant turns then your board position would be a lot stronger.

I think the slots you're putting Mom is the same slots I'm putting BB. I just don't see how you can possibly cut threats.

[Valech]

I know it looks appealing to protect SFM and Confidant, but you really don't need it. Your discard should do her job already, while being good against combo. I don't want StP and Mom in my Deadguy deck. That's too many potentially dead cards for game one. Your creatures need to be high impact when you play so few, and Mom is not individually good. Mom is only good turn one, followed up by SFM or Confidant turn two. The odds for that happening are approximately 26%. You can double check that to make sure I did it right. [(1-0.3464)*(1-0.6005) = 0.2611]. You can obviously top deck the SFM or Confidant later, but if that Mom had been BB in those vacant turns then your board position would be a lot stronger.

I think the slots you're putting Mom is the same slots I'm putting BB. I just don't see how you can possibly cut threats.

I will try BB instead of Moms. I will try to be as unbiassed as possible. i´ll return with results.

[attemanden]

Hey Guys, this is my version of deadguy. i like the creaturebase pretty much, since you put a bigger presure on the opponent. mixed with discard this give you pretty good control over the game. anyone have any oppinions they like to share? :)... feel free to comment on both main and SB please.

one thing i am questioning is tidehollow sculler, for me it doesnt seem so strong?... easy to kill with both spells and creatures. it seems like you play it, steal a card and nothing more, since you cant attack without have it getting killed. and you cant block for the same reason. whats the thing with this card?...
second. why is mirran crusader such a big deal? i mean 3 cc is pretty heavy in my oppinion. what makes it so good that it fits into legacy? :)
NB. im bringen one more thoughtseize into the deck, dunno yet instead of what. hymn probably going out.
bring your comments :)

Creatures: 18
4x dark confidant
3x mother of runes
3x stoneforge mystic
3x thalia, guardian of thraben
2x hidehollow sculler
3x Serra Avenger

artifacts 8
2x sensei top
1x batterskull
1x jitte
4x Æthervial

Instans: 4
4x plowshares

Sorceries: 8
1x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of kozilek
2x hymn to tourach
2x vindicate


Planeswalkers 2
2x Liliana of the veil


lands 20
4x wasteland
4x scrubland
4x flat marsh
3x bloodstained mire
2x plain
3x swamps


sideboard: 15
2x Tormods crypt/relic of progenitus/rest in peace
2x Extirpate
2x Duress
1x Sword of feast and famine
1x sword of fire and ice
2x Engineered plague
2x Oblivion ring
1x perish/ghastly demice/path to exile
1x hymn to tourach
1x pithing needle

[JanoschEausH]

Hey Guys, this is my version of deadguy. i like the creaturebase pretty much, since you put a bigger presure on the opponent. mixed with discard this give you pretty good control over the game. anyone have any oppinions they like to share? :)... feel free to comment on both main and SB please.

one thing i am questioning is tidehollow sculler, for me it doesnt seem so strong?... easy to kill with both spells and creatures. it seems like you play it, steal a card and nothing more, since you cant attack without have it getting killed. and you cant block for the same reason. whats the thing with this card?...
second. why is mirran crusader such a big deal? i mean 3 cc is pretty heavy in my oppinion. what makes it so good that it fits into legacy? :)
NB. im bringen one more thoughtseize into the deck, dunno yet instead of what. hymn probably going out.
bring your comments :)

I really like your list! It looks like Death 'n Taxes with black. I will test it for sure!
I would actually drop the hymns. Even if you play 4 Scrubland and 7 Fetches, it can be hard to have BB turn 2. I would exchange the Hymns with more CMC1 discard.
Concerning your question regarding Mirran Crusader: This guy is a really big clock, which is, what this deck is missing at the moment. He dies to STP and red removal, which is the reason why i play Moms to protect him. Did you ever attack with Mirran Crusader carrying a Jitte or Sword? Its basically GG when he connects.

I know, most people in this thread favour token-based strategies and i acknowledge that there is no space for a 3drop Mirran Crusader in their lists, but speaking for myself, i did very well with him in countless testgames and a few tournaments.

I guess Serra Avenger takes Mirran Crusaders space in your list in terms of function.

[Rizso]

Call me a bit crazy but a couple of sideboard cards im thinking of playing is Memoricide / Cranial Extraction Nevermore cost they are strong against against Miracles / show and tell. Against miracles hit either jace / miracle will greatly remove the chances of them able to comeback in a game. Pinpoint Discard into nevermore is pretty sweet, kinda like the old Finkula deck from 2001/2 where you went duress into meddlingmage.

Totally worth trying it out.

[Wilkin]

Call me a bit crazy but a couple of sideboard cards im thinking of playing is Memoricide / Cranial Extraction Nevermore cost they are strong against against Miracles / show and tell. Against miracles hit either jace / miracle will greatly remove the chances of them able to comeback in a game. Pinpoint Discard into nevermore is pretty sweet, kinda like the old Finkula deck from 2001/2 where you went duress into meddlingmage.

Totally worth trying it out.

Cranial Extraction is four mana right? That's a little too high to stop a combo deck IMO. Nevermore...maybe especially if you play accelerates like Shaman or Chrome Mox.

Against Miracles I haven't had a problem yet. I play Revoker and Engineered Explosives to deal with Top and tokens. Bitterblossom is awesome against a Terminus since i will regain my army slowly.

Show and tell i have more problems....if only Gatekeeper were able to work off a show and tell, like Fleshbag Marauder or Shriekmaw. Too bad Shriekmaw is non black and non artifact. I've hit Emrakul with Shriekmaw on a few occasions off a show and tell....lol, the looks on their faces is priceless.

[igri_is_a_bk]

I'm not very fond of your strategy for Miracles. Revoker shutting down Top is really nice, and probably the best way to slow them down. The problem is that he's a creature, and Miracles is packed full of ways to deal with creatures. Have you tried Pithing Needle, as a comparison? It might be a more reliable card in the match up.

As for SnT decks, play Oblivion Ring. It is a (mostly) functional replacement for Vindicate, and just happens to work against a top combo deck right now. You can also play Seal of Cleansing in the sideboard, instead of Disenchant. I'm not sure if it's worth dropping the instant-speed yet. I'm still trying it out.

Has anybody tried Shaman here? I know we don't have green, but that's not the end of the world. He provides more reach, which is something we are lacking, and accelerates without being terrible in the late game, like Chrome Mox. I know he doesn't play so nicely with Therapy or Souls, but since your opponent's graveyard is also fair game, I think he could work.

[evilGod]

In the limited testing I've done, without green DRS isn't quite worth it. Being a black manadork that blocks Lackey and pings for 2 is good, but being inconsistent at the mana ramp isn't quite worth a slot. When you can activate the ability to eat creatures you can fight Dredge/Reanimator G1, and gain some critical life against fast Aggro, he really starts to shine. It's like playing a creature Liliana, he's almost always gonna be good for something.

[Rizso]

If storm combo is gonna go off turn 1 or 2 through discard there isnt anything you can do anyway. If you however able to stall them from going of by a couple of turns its very much possible to extract enought cards out with surgicals / Cranials / Nevermores. By Removing the enablers its very much possible to make them unable to win.

Extracting a miracles jaces and banning the entreats they will have very little to no killing condictions left.

Against show and tell kind want to hit either show and tell or burning wish. hiting the wish means they cant go inf with omni into storm you out.

Accels like mox and deathrite makes it much easier to hit the correct number of mana.

[paladin3056]

In the limited testing I've done, without green DRS isn't quite worth it. Being a black manadork that blocks Lackey and pings for 2 is good, but being inconsistent at the mana ramp isn't quite worth a slot. When you can activate the ability to eat creatures you can fight Dredge/Reanimator G1, and gain some critical life against fast Aggro, he really starts to shine. It's like playing a creature Liliana, he's almost always gonna be good for something.

Then why not spash green, adding a couple of Bayou's or maybe a single forest just for Shaman and a couple of Abrupts is well worth it. As for the abilities, I definitely agree that DRS is an all around card, almost like a Swiss army knife which can wreck several decks at the same time is bad to a few like SnT (Show and Tell DRS is the worst possible combination).

I'm just waiting for Gatecrash just to see what goodies Orzhov will get, and hopefully the Charm will be doing something good as well like discard / exile creature / etc (I can dream )

As for the SB options, Nevermore is quite interesting, and maybe worth testing, the good side about it is that if you are running a Mox build then its quite easy to imprint Nevermore to it if you don't need it.

[abetman]

I haven't tried this list yet but am thinking of running:

Lands(20)
3 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
3 Scrubland
3 Swamp
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Murmuring Bosk

Creatures(17)
4 Dark Confidant
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Aven Mindcensor

Artfiacts/Enchantments/Planeswalkers(6)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
2 Bitterblossom
1 Liliana of the Veil

Spells(17)
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls

SIDEBOARD(15)
2 Extirpate
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Choke
2 Perish
2 Engineered Plague
2 Vindicate
1 Maelstrom Pulse

Thoughts? :)

[Wilkin]

I'm not a huge fan of Aven Mindcensor. It's a decent card but since you are splashing green.....can't you play Tarmogoyf? I would also try and increase Liliana to 3 if you can. She's that good, I've won many a game with her on the board.

I might also cut the Bosk for a dual land. I know why you are playing it but you already have Bojuka Bog, having 2 come into play tapped lands isn't that good imo. 20 lands and 2 shaman is a bit low mana wise I think. Right now I'm running 20 lands, 2 Chrome Mox and a Shaman (lol, I know who the heck plays just one shaman?) and I find sometimes I can have mana problems.





As for someone commenting on Revoker. Yeah I know Miracles can kill it easily but I still prefer Revoker over Needle because he's a dude. My deck doesn't run as many creatures as other builds so if my hate cards can do some damage, even better. Miracles so far for me isn't that bad of a matchup. I run Bitterblossom which is a house against them. The only tier 1 deck I have trouble against is Show and tell. I even considered making Team Italia, in order to be able to use REB's and Pyroblast.

[abetman]

I'm not a huge fan of Aven Mindcensor. It's a decent card but since you are splashing green.....can't you play Tarmogoyf? I would also try and increase Liliana to 3 if you can. She's that good, I've won many a game with her on the board.

I might also cut the Bosk for a dual land. I know why you are playing it but you already have Bojuka Bog, having 2 come into play tapped lands isn't that good imo. 20 lands and 2 shaman is a bit low mana wise I think. Right now I'm running 20 lands, 2 Chrome Mox and a Shaman (lol, I know who the heck plays just one shaman?) and I find sometimes I can have mana problems.





As for someone commenting on Revoker. Yeah I know Miracles can kill it easily but I still prefer Revoker over Needle because he's a dude. My deck doesn't run as many creatures as other builds so if my hate cards can do some damage, even better. Miracles so far for me isn't that bad of a matchup. I run Bitterblossom which is a house against them. The only tier 1 deck I have trouble against is Show and tell. I even considered making Team Italia, in order to be able to use REB's and Pyroblast.

I don't have goyfs and am running bosk coz I don't have a third bayou. :) I was supposed to run mirran crusader for the censor's slot, but decided to run censor for a change.

[Leto]

Hi guys, after a long time i decided to play DGA again, heading into the GP Bochum Legacy-Championship. Below u see my List, but nothing to exciting or innovative here:

Manabase (22 Karten)
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Karakas
Creatures (8 Karten)
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
Discard (9 Karten)
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Hymn to Tourach
Removal (7 Karten)
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Ghastly Demise
Token (7 Karten)
4 Lingering Souls
3 Bitterblossom
Planeswalker (5 Karten)
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Equipments (3 Karten)
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
Sideboard (15 Karten)
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Engineered Plague
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Pithing Needle
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Silence
3 Cursed Totem

MUs were
vs. ANT 2:1
vs. UW-Control 1:1
vs. BUG Tempo 0:2
vs. Maverick 2:0
vs. Aluren 2:1
vs. Canadian 0:2
vs. Goblins 2:0
vs. Dredge 0:2
finally 41 and Place 32/132. Not the World, but I was quite surprised how well the List felt. Changes will be cutting Hymns (maybe +2 Zealous +2 TS), changing up Graveyardhate in the Board and looking for an replacement for Ghastly Demise, i had several Situations where i could not shot down a Deathrite Shaman or other black creature and lost because of this.