[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[Qweerios]

It's nice to see the people in this thread becoming active again (thanks to Arianrhod). Here's a little bit more to keep us going:

Concerning Recycle / Null Profusion, I don't think you need to combine it with Arena at any point in any matchup where you want this type of interaction. In case this didn't register yet, Top alone turns Recycle into a beast as it now grants two cards instead of 1, and that at any time you wish to use it or cast it. On top of that (unintended pun), it is well out of Deed range and doesn't cost any life. Nic Fit is also accustomed to having a 2-cards hand by the time it can land 6drops. It's synergy with top goes beyond the double cantrip as well, you can also respond to the "play a card" trigger of a fetchland by cracking said fetch in the advent that your top3 is not what you want, then filter your top 3 cards with the fetched land in response to your draw trigger. I think Recycle is a great find and will quickly become a staple in the Rector versions (it will in mine).

As for where Nic Fit stands in the format, I think it is where it belongs. If it were a DtB, it wouldn't be for long because it is easy to play against once you know how. Minor changes in deck construction (1-2 more basics, couple PWs here and there) and Nic Fit has a really hard time fighting fair decks, especialy those sporting counterspells because they get the last word in a control mirror. Being cold to combo and unfair decks in G1 and highly reliant on a combination of non-explosive plays from your opponent and a smooth draw from yourself is a chance we only take because we have no other choices. As I have stated before, Nic Fit is a metagame deck. It rose during the Maverick/RUG/Stoneblade era and fell during the SnT/Griselbrand era. A good Nic Fit deck is essentialy fool-proof against aggro decks, has the upper hand on control, and relies 99.9% on its sideboard for unfair matchups. It will not be a DtB before it has adequate maindeck-able tools to deal with the broken factor of the Legacy format.

A fair concession that I will make to Nic Fit is that it teaches you to be a great player. I have never been so aware of my opponent's hand, board, draws, potential plays, and my own deck before and that's, in great part, due to what Cabal Therapy requires of it's user to be effective in any deck. Akin to Death and Taxes, there is a lot of additional knowledge about the game that has to be acquired to be able to play Nic Fit successfully. I have won my last 2 tournaments (Local and GPT) with a homebrew version of Esperblade with Deathrite Shaman, and despite being my first few times on a blade deck, I made little to no missplays during my matches. I believe that my last year as a Nic Fitter has a lot to do with my lines of play as a control player because playing a Legacy game with a Nic Fit deck is like going to war with more bullets than anybody else, but having to find your gun first.

I hope Gatecrash brings some good Simic or Gruul cards and GSZ targets for Nic Fit to breakdown. Hopefully they are better than Armada Wurm.

@Arianrhod,

I know we disagree on a lot of things regarding Nic Fit but I think that 3rd Plains is really off in your Rector list. 8 Basics in a 3colored list is a lot for 6 fetches and that 3rd Plains isn't required for any card in your deck. I understand the jump from 1-2 basics of a single kind in the absence of double costed cards for consistency's sake, but that 3rd Plains would be much better off as a 4th Verdant. Additionaly, white mana in general isn't even necessary for any early plays with your list. Smart fetching will open up more early options and feed your Tops better than risking the double Plains or Plains + Forest + Therapy opener.

@Slikwilly,

Nice find! The Humility synergy with Collective Blessing and manlands is worth delving into but not what I originaly thought of as a deck. The concept of Collective Blessing in Nic Fit, I think, is to allow undercosted and effective cards to pack a Nic Fit punch. Cards like SFM, Lingering Souls, and Deathrite Shaman, which are all strong cards in their own right can now become lethal. The fact that they have inherent synergy with Nic Fit staples like Cabal Therapy, Rector, and even Diabolic Intent is what makes it a viable deck strategy. The trade-off comes with Pernicious Deed where it becomes less of a freebie. The newly discovered Recycle is also great with cards like Lingering Souls and SFM. There is also Chord of Calling as a potential replacement for GSZ but I think that's a bit far-fetched.

[Arianrhod]

@Arianrhod,

I know we disagree on a lot of things regarding Nic Fit but I think that 3rd Plains is really off in your Rector list. 8 Basics in a 3colored list is a lot for 6 fetches and that 3rd Plains isn't required for any card in your deck. I understand the jump from 1-2 basics of a single kind in the absence of double costed cards for consistency's sake, but that 3rd Plains would be much better off as a 4th Verdant. Additionaly, white mana in general isn't even necessary for any early plays with your list. Smart fetching will open up more early options and feed your Tops better than risking the double Plains or Plains + Forest + Therapy opener.

I'm short on time at the moment so I'm just going to respond to this quickly.

I'm actually inclined to agree with you on this. The 3rd plains was always for the double-white cards, so that if I draw a Plains in my opener or first few draws, I could still Explorer for Plains+Plains to cast one of my WW costs. However, with Elspeth moving to the sideboard (and frankly being questionable even there), that lowers my WW cost cards to the Moat, the pair of Baneslayers, the Sigarda, and the Sun Titan. That's still a large number, but Moat will likely be Rector'd, Sigarda will probably be Green Sun'd, and the other three cards aren't typically dropped early anyway.

Now, here's a question for. If I take out the 3rd plains, do you think that the 7th fetch is what the deck would want, or perhaps Karakas should be added? That obviously does nothing to alleviate the occasional white-heavy hands, but, especially with Diabolic Intent, it does improve the odds of dealing with various problems. A maindeck way, at that. I'm not sure. It's something to think about, at the very least.

----------

Also, because Qweerios just kicked this over into a new page, I'm going to restate that SCG has Korean Explorers if anyone is looking. Info is on the last post of the previous page. Those things are hard enough that I don't want my note about that getting lost and not seen -- I'd much rather they found their way into Nic Fitter hands =)

Edit: Also, can anyone think of any particular reason to run Null Profusion over Recycle or vise versa? I can't come up with anything. Perish won't hit it, there isn't anything like REB or Karma that is commonly played, I don't think. I might just be derping. Am I missing something? Barring outside interference, I'd say Recycle should get the nod since GG is easier than BB.

[Viridia]

Fair enough, I suppose. I will note that I actually keep a lot of hands without Explorer, and they work out okay. There's a lot of factors involved, of course.

Also, for anyone who is interested in Korean Explorers, SCG actually has 3 in stock currently. 1 is NM, 2 are SP. Here's the link: http://sales.starcitygames.com/searc...91;1]=1&auto=Y

Kind of annoyed that they have 3 now after it took me over a year to complete my set, but meh. Good for you guys, I guess.

Oh man, i havemy Explorers awesomely altered, but now i'm thinking about picking those up :P

[Arianrhod]

Oh man, i havemy Explorers awesomely altered, but now i'm thinking about picking those up :P

I'm actually really sad to hear that now. You'll understand when you get your package, lol.

[Viridia]

I'm actually really sad to hear that now. You'll understand when you get your package, lol.

I better wait with picking up stuff 'till i get that then ;)

Also seriously thinking about picking up some Japanese Foil Rectors for 110 each.

Edit: Ah man, CFB had 5 of them on Ebay, all gone now >.>

[Arianrhod]

I better wait with picking up stuff 'till i get that then ;)

Also seriously thinking about picking up some Japanese Foil Rectors for 110 each.

Edit: Ah man, CFB had 5 of them on Ebay, all gone now >.>

Yeah, they've been vanishing left and right. Steve's got his three -- I've been working on other stuff for other decks, though =(

I think Deeds are my highest priority right now. With BUG and Junk both blowing up, Deed is bound to go up. I also need to try to get my Witnesses before GP Charlotte so I can get them signed by Terese Nielson =3 (Thank god I already have the Gurus for it, lol).

[Viridia]

Nielson will be in Charlotte? O.o I might consider flying over , was thinking about doing that some time anyway :D
Been stuck on FNM Etwits myself, but i did manage to trade into a Jap Foil Deed last week :D

[slikwilly]

Nice find! The Humility synergy with Collective Blessing and manlands is worth delving into but not what I originaly thought of as a deck. The concept of Collective Blessing in Nic Fit, I think, is to allow undercosted and effective cards to pack a Nic Fit punch. Cards like SFM, Lingering Souls, and Deathrite Shaman, which are all strong cards in their own right can now become lethal. The fact that they have inherent synergy with Nic Fit staples like Cabal Therapy, Rector, and even Diabolic Intent is what makes it a viable deck strategy. The trade-off comes with Pernicious Deed where it becomes less of a freebie. The newly discovered Recycle is also great with cards like Lingering Souls and SFM. There is also Chord of Calling as a potential replacement for GSZ but I think that's a bit far-fetched.

Yeah, that was a rough draft. I have a slightly revised list w/ an extra Top and Recycle in it. Recycle + Flashback is pretty awesome... Fitting everything into the deck that I want is always challenging. Some days I think decks need to be 70 cards and 3-of max just so I can play everything I want :)

I went looking for sac outlets over lunch to see if there was anything worthwhile w/o requiring a swamp. Anyone ever thought about Altar of Bone? The other one that caught my eye was Jinxed Idol. I don't think you can replace Therapy since a legacy deck w/o disruption better be way faster than we are but it never hurts to see what's available. I'm hoping Orzhov gives us some sweet new toys...

[vilnico]

Hey guys, it's Terese NielsEn, not like a Brad Nelson name ^^...

Just for curiosity, how much were the KOR Veteran ?
I got my 3 Japanese for a dollar each (directly in a Shop in Tokyo ^^), and it hurts my eyes to see it 11$ on SCG.
Not gonna get my fourth so soon I guess... :(

[Qweerios]

What is so special about Korean Explorers? I can't find a picture anywhere...

[Zombie]

Writing this to say a word of thanks.
I'm not much of a Legacy player primarily for wallet reasons, though also because I hadn't found an interesting deck. Storm is good, just a smidge off. I love critter toolboxes and Forests and can't help it. I thought I found something worthwhile in Survival. We all know what happened to that.

With that, it's been interesting to see the evolution of Nic Fit. Why? I play German Highlander, what does that have to... wait, doesn't that look familiar? Been fun trying to pilfer ideas from Nic Fit builds because they often fit 1-1 (for example Arianrhod's Fetters inclusion - it's perfect for killing Walkers and pesky Sphinxes of the Steel Wind that were previously next to unanswerable). Found Collective Blessing myself some time ago, had to give it up because the single slot just isn't enough for overall board presence purposes, but seeing it come to fruition here due to slik's great find is awesome.

Some things from the singleton land that might be worth considering:
A lower mana curve, aggressive Rector list. In practice this just requires some small dudes that stick - I have manadorks and Carrion Feeder. Rector dies, Eldrazi Conscription, well, that was a short game. Using Rector as the combo card still allows for all the sick grindy things and general toolboxy cards like Arena and Fetters.

Garruk Relentless. Play him. He's insane. You have multiple Phyrexian Towers, Explorer-Therapy, multiple Garruks. That is, you can go for a fast Garruk very often. Also, in a Collective Blessing/Rector style list? As Hanni's avatar aptly states, "prepare your anus".

[Arianrhod]

What is so special about Korean Explorers? I can't find a picture anywhere...

That's basically why, lol. They're stupid rare. It's just a pimp thing. Like, when people were opening Korean Weatherlight, they weren't looking for Veteran Explorers. So a lot of them probably ended up stranded on shelves or just thrown out. As a result, they're really, really hard to find.

[vilnico]

What is so special about Korean Explorers? I can't find a picture anywhere...

man, they're not special, they are KOREAN
that's all there is to it ^^...

[Demonic_Attorney]

I have noticed that all the "nicfit" decks that have been winning and/ or placing in the top 8 of any fifty (50+) plus player Legacy events recently have all been sporting "scapefit" builds of this deck.

I note that this forum is for GBW; however, given the recent success of a seventy (70) player first place finish and a fifty-two (52) player second place finish and another top 8 in another larage scale Legacy event it seems as though scapefit is more consistent at posting better results than the more traditional nicfit version right now.

Should there now be a new form exclusively for scapefit builds or is this the appropriate forum to post and discuss same?

[TerribleTim68]

. . .Also, for anyone who is interested in Korean Explorers. . .

Lol! Oddly enough, I have 1 Japanese Explorer from Weatherlight that I've had forever. Kinda glad I held onto it, but some times I hate that it's Japanese because I can't read it and it never fails that when an opponent says "what does that do?" that's when my brain goes dead and I get to sit there going "Um, um, um".

[Kich867]

I have noticed that all the "nicfit" decks that have been winning and/ or placing in the top 8 of any fifty (50+) plus player Legacy events recently have all been sporting "scapefit" builds of this deck.

I note that this forum is for GBW; however, given the recent success of a seventy (70) player first place finish and a fifty-two (52) player second place finish and another top 8 in another larage scale Legacy event it seems as though scapefit is more consistent at posting better results than the more traditional nicfit version right now.

Should there now be a new form exclusively for scapefit builds or is this the appropriate forum to post and discuss same?

There's always been some discussion about that, but this thread for any and all variants of Nic Fit builds.

[TheArchitect]

I have noticed that all the "nicfit" decks that have been winning and/ or placing in the top 8 of any fifty (50+) plus player Legacy events recently have all been sporting "scapefit" builds of this deck.

I note that this forum is for GBW; however, given the recent success of a seventy (70) player first place finish and a fifty-two (52) player second place finish and another top 8 in another larage scale Legacy event it seems as though scapefit is more consistent at posting better results than the more traditional nicfit version right now.

Should there now be a new form exclusively for scapefit builds or is this the appropriate forum to post and discuss same?

Most of us kinda bounce around between a few variants of the deck (BUG, GBW, punishing fire, scapeshift, 4 color, etc). While I cant speak for all of us, I like having it all one thread even though they are probably as different as some of the other decks that get different threads.


I tried brewing up a list to make use of collect blessing when it spoiled, but couldnt make anything I liked. I do think it might have some merit though and will give it another shot at some point. Elspeth, and garruk relentless should definitely be in that list somewhere. They are strong by themselves, the nuts with humility out, and even better with collective blessing. Maybe even Elspeth 2.0? but idk


I had a thought a while ago when it comes to additional sac outlets: Tabernacle. Has anyone tired this? the fact that it uses a land drop without making mana is bad but maybe its worth it for a sac outlet and a way to slow aggro decks in a big way.

[conboy31]

Now, here's a question for. If I take out the 3rd plains, do you think that the 7th fetch is what the deck would want, or perhaps Karakas should be added? That obviously does nothing to alleviate the occasional white-heavy hands, but, especially with Diabolic Intent, it does improve the odds of dealing with various problems. A maindeck way, at that. I'm not sure. It's something to think about, at the very least.

Before I moved to rural ND and temporarily gave up magic I went with the 2 plains/1 Karakas split that you eluded to. I had a MD Sigarda and Thrun along with a SB Teeg to get utility myself as well as being able to legend rule the opponents (we have more virtual Karakas w/witness) and mise vs. Emrakul, etc.

[Oiolosse]

I agree with Qweerios on Recycle. I used to play that in Combo Elves and thought it was solid.

That being said, since I am still farting around with it I have been trying some of the blue powerhouse enchantments. Future Sight is just so good with Top. Decree of Silence has been pretty awesome as well. The mana cost is is hefty but Rectoring it into play has been nice. Has anybody else experimented with this?

[fireiced]

A fair concession that I will make to Nic Fit is that it teaches you to be a great player. I have never been so aware of my opponent's hand, board, draws, potential plays, and my own deck before and that's, in great part, due to what Cabal Therapy requires of it's user to be effective in any deck. Akin to Death and Taxes, there is a lot of additional knowledge about the game that has to be acquired to be able to play Nic Fit successfully. I have won my last 2 tournaments (Local and GPT) with a homebrew version of Esperblade with Deathrite Shaman, and despite being my first few times on a blade deck, I made little to no missplays during my matches. I believe that my last year as a Nic Fitter has a lot to do with my lines of play as a control player because playing a Legacy game with a Nic Fit deck is like going to war with more bullets than anybody else, but having to find your gun first.

I would want to agree with Qweerios on this! (: Thanks to the experience in playing therapy in nic fit, I always jam 2 copies of it into any deck with B and creatures



@Arianrhod
Secondly, I want to thank this dude for guiding me along with nic fit! I am still playing scapewish to great results still but people have learnt to play around me and thus I am forced to play tighter.

Edit: Because I spelled thank as tank >_>