[Deck] The Rock

[Mr. Safety]

A few notes:

1) I have a singleton Scryb Ranger back into my maindeck as a GSZ target. Getting double Shaman activations is good, sometimes game winning good.

2) I have also gone back to using 1x Cabal Pit in my maindeck. It has dealt with Shamans, and Soul tokens while the equip ability is on the stack, along with many other threats (Delver, Snapcaster to name a couple)

Just some thoughts. I'm back to 4x Wasteland as well...because I like how Shaman can still get me to 3-4 mana. I like the ability to screw with BUG/RUG's mana base too much to play less than 4. It's for this same reason I'm back to a singleton Loam as well (playing 24 lands and 61 cards btw.)

My current list for reference (still need Bobs)

4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Knight of the Reiliquary
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Tarmogoyf
1x Qasali Pridemage

4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Thoughtseize
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Pernicious Deed
1x Vindicate
1x Life from the Loam
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Garruk Relentless
2x Sylvan Library
2x Phyrexian Arena
2x Green Sun's Zenith

4x Wasteland
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Marsh Flats
2x Bayou
2x Scrubland
1x Savannah
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Treetop Village
1x Cabal Pit
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Forest
1x Plains
2x Swamp


When I get Dark Confidant, he will take the 2 Arena slots along with probably the 2 Deed slots (which will go to the sideboard.) My sideboard is open right now (only guaranteed slots are 1x Gaddock Teeg and 4x Leyline of Sanctity), but I'm toying with these cards:

Kitchen Finks
Eternal Witness
Hymn to Tourach
Umezawa's Jitte
Lingering Souls
Timely Reinforcements

[godofallu]

I used to run Thrun in a hexproof Bant type list. Ended up cutting him because it was always better to just wait an extra turn to get Sigarda since Thrun doesn't win a game nearly as easily as Sigarda does.

Thrun is going to catch Liliana's -2 and parishes all day long. Don't joke about the regenerate clause since I have never seen it help me. Plus the can't be countered line is useless when you find him through GSZ 4/5 times. Just wait till you start paying 4 mana for a card that is instantly outclassed by Tarmogoyf. I have and it loses you games.

Garruk is better than Thrun no doubt. Neither is all that good against a variety of decks though. You need threats that can be decent against Combo and Aggro and Control. KOTR can find wastelands to bomb tempo decks and keep ramp/control decks locked out of games. It can find karakas or Bog to stop show and tell/dredge/reanimator. It can out fight most aggro decks too. KOTR can go in a maindeck without hurting any matchup. Thrun can not.

If I were to start digging for sideboard win conditions instead of hate my list for testing would have these: No-Pro (3/1), Phyrexian Arena, Lingering Souls, Garruk Relentless, Bloodgift Demon.

Souls makes Liliana and Jace weaker, laughs at abrupt decay, and combos well with your own Liliana. It's also a bad card maindeck against combo and super aggro.

Arena can simply out draw most midranged decks. With Library and Bob as well you would have a hard time being locked out due to an opposing Liliana, and even a Jace that sticks on an opponents side would have trouble burying you in card advantage. Abrupt decay and other 1-1's won't be enough to put you away.

Garruk Releantless is the same token strategy as Lingering Souls expect it's even better against Abrupt Decay and Deathrite Shaman, but worse against Liliana and Jace.

Never tried No-Pro in Rock but frankly it does wonders for me in Bant, although I do run counters to help seal the deal. Might be worth testing though.

[Claymore]

When I get Dark Confidant, he will take the 2 Arena slots along with probably the 2 Deed slots (which will go to the sideboard.)

You know...I've been playing Rock in Modern, practically the same core, but I run x3 Grisly Salvage. This card is insane, and in a build that is missing Confidant I'd be interested to see what happens when you run it over the nearly strictly-worse-than-Bob Arena (yes they're different, "nearly", etc). Salvage does a few things and has high synergy especially for your list:

Face value: Fetch a needed creature or land.

Synergy:
1) Overload the graveyard with lands or card types for a swinging Goyf or KotR (the main benefit)
2) Combine with your Loam to quickly find either Loam or utility lands to loam back
3) Find targets quickly for your Volrath's Stronghold
4) Almost instantly hit Threshold to kick off Cabal Pit

It will dredge over Planeswalkers and other nonland/creature cards, but you still get some good use out of those cards with Goyf. If you chuck a Raven's Crime into there somewhere (sideboard?) then you can quickly establish the Loam-Crime discard engine.

If you bring Lingering Souls mainboard, then you get even more value out of Grisly Salvage since at x3-4 you almost certainly will 'dredge' one over, so you can get a creature and a few tokens.

Unfortunately it makes the deck more vulnerable to total-exile graveyard hate (RiP...though quickly refills the yard after removing the threat) but I think the overall benefit would be very intriguing. I haven't tested it myself yet in Legacy since I'm very happy with the base list in the limited time I've been playing it and haven't time or want to retool the deck, but the synergy I see with the Modern deck is very interesting.

[damionblackgear]

I used to run Thrun in a hexproof Bant type list. Ended up cutting him because it was always better to just wait an extra turn to get Sigarda since Thrun doesn't win a game nearly as easily as Sigarda does.

You're talking about the difference between 4 and 5 (5-6 off GSZ). I know this may not seem like much but it does matter. It's not 1-2 or 2-3. Both of those are meant to be accomplished as most of our decks are geared to reach that amount of mana. 4-5 are late game as well as showing that no Knight activations have been made. Most importantly, "We are not Bant."

Thrun is going to catch Liliana's -2 and parishes all day long. Don't joke about the regenerate clause since I have never seen it help me. Plus the can't be countered line is useless when you find him through GSZ 4/5 times. Just wait till you start paying 4 mana for a card that is instantly outclassed by Tarmogoyf. I have and it loses you games.

Perish point is mute. Perish kills both and the Lili point is an issue for anything except Sigarda. Sigarda costing 1 more means that in some matches (and the others in some cases) that 1 additional mana means that ever Sigarda is on the "backfoot" (negatively). As the last thing here, only Sigarda can be countered if you draw her.

In the end I'll ask, "What's more likely to be faced, a Liliana or a counter?"

Thrun block Goyf all day it it becomes a matter of deciding if you can take the damage or you have to chump (in which case you're buying cards to deal with goyf). Thrun will typically be outclassed by Goyf. That will never be a question.

Goyf will never be able to regenerate without help. That's where I think you should reconsider your thought. Let's look at it another way, "What do 2 opposing goyf do?" The answer is simple, they stare at each other until one side is able to get help from something else. Without that something else, 2 Goyf will never be able to attack past each other.

So how does Thrun surpass this? Simple, Thrun can't be killed easily.

What about offensively? We should be able to deal with things that would block the path of our own threats. Sometimes, that is just an attack. Most of the time, we actually kill those things. So, if we're counting on killing things, why should it matter what we play? As long as it can't be countered (something Sigarda lacks) and have some durability, it shouldn't matter.

Garruk is better than Thrun no doubt.

I have doubts so you'll have to justify this in order for me to actually think it's more than an opinion.

Neither is all that good against a variety of decks though. You need threats that can be decent against Combo and Aggro and Control. KOTR can find wastelands to bomb tempo decks and keep ramp/control decks locked out of games. It can find karakas or Bog to stop show and tell/dredge/reanimator. It can out fight most aggro decks too. KOTR can go in a maindeck without hurting any matchup. Thrun can not.

So your point is that both are bad against decks that need a fast clock... Using Knight is irrelevant. 1) That's not the card we're thinking of replacing 2) It's filling a different roll.

If you're thinking of cutting a Knight, I'd advise that you look towards other options. Knight's amazing (although it isn't always the answer).

If I were to start digging for sideboard win conditions instead of hate my list for testing would have these: No-Pro (3/1), Phyrexian Arena, Lingering Souls, Garruk Relentless, Bloodgift Demon.

Souls makes Liliana and Jace weaker, laughs at abrupt decay, and combos well with your own Liliana. It's also a bad card maindeck against combo and super aggro.

Arena can simply out draw most midranged decks. With Library and Bob as well you would have a hard time being locked out due to an opposing Liliana, and even a Jace that sticks on an opponents side would have trouble burying you in card advantage. Abrupt decay and other 1-1's won't be enough to put you away.

Garruk Releantless is the same token strategy as Lingering Souls expect it's even better against Abrupt Decay and Deathrite Shaman, but worse against Liliana and Jace.

Never tried No-Pro in Rock but frankly it does wonders for me in Bant, although I do run counters to help seal the deal. Might be worth testing though.

I have no interest of a singleton (1 main & 1 board in my case). I am, however, a fan of testing and I think this is a great idea (testing). Test all of your ideas you meantioned, get back to us with what you think. Once or during that process, I encourage any/everyone to try it out as well. Compare the outcomes. We'll all improve on that. (Sidenote: Been drinking, I'm not editing)

[sdematt]

I think the main things we have to be able to answer/do are the following:

1) How do you beat Miracles' infinite creature removal and possible Rest in Peace?

2) How do you deal with another decks' Deathrite Shamans and Abrupt Decays?

--> How do you deal with both of these and beat Jace in the long game?

We can usually get through the early to midgame, but sometimes we can falter in the late game, especially against an active Jace. Thus, we must run either answers to Jace or threats that don't care about either Abrupt Decay, Jace, or Terminus. Ideally, we'd have a shroud indestructible creature that's green and bigger than Goyf :P

I think there's definitely some sideboard slots to look at against each of these decks at the moment.

Lingering Souls: We're not bringing it in against any other deck besides Miracles and Control, so I suggest possibly running this card. The decks that are running Lingering Souls hate are not the decks we bring this in against, so this is a very good deal. This statement is a bit of a misnomer. Miracles will have "hate" for it, but against decks that run Plagues, we're not caring about that anyway.

Pithing Needle: My friend has been running this in his BUG board the past few months and has been loving it. He usually ends up Needling random stuff that pisses you off (if you needed to, Deathrite Shaman, but more for Top/Jace). Cutting off BUG's late-game Jace just turns that deck into a worse deck than ours by far. Shutting off Miracles' Top or Jace combined with Hymns and Gaddock Teegs is backbreaking for them.

Engineered Explosives: Again from the friend's BUG deck. It's overlapping hate for Tokens, Aggro, and Deathrite Shamans, assuming you don't have your own out.

All of these cards are 2-for-1's or virtual 2-for-1's and up.

I think we definitely want a Planeswalkers plan for Miracles as well as the Maverick still in the format as well as BUG. Compost might also be worth a test, in all honesty. The card is DAMN good if it lands and stays, otherwise it just eats an Abrupt Decay.

2 Pithing Needle (Top, Jace, etc.)
3 Surgical Extraction (Dredge, Reanimator, Combo)
3 Hymn to Tourach (Miracles, BUG, Combo)
2 Gaddock Teeg (Miracles)
2 Engineered Explosives (Souls tokens, tempo, Esper, Tribal, even Jace since we can EE at 4)
1 Scavenging Ooze (Dredge, Reanimator, BUG, Esperblade)
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Open (Elspeth, etc.)

But remember, what's our "ideal" anti-Miracles build? As in, we can't have more cards to bring in from the board than what we can remove from the main. What in our deck is strictly "bad" against Miracles? There's few TERRIBLE cards, but it's just determining the right mix of threats and answers to get them.

-Matt

[lavafrogg]

River Boa? regenerates for one and is unblockable by miracles and bug. It would even help clog up the ground against non blue decks.

[sdematt]

River Boa? regenerates for one and is unblockable by miracles and bug. It would even help clog up the ground against non blue decks.

Possibly, but I'm not sure if it provides enough pressure.

I'm thinking:

2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Elspeth/Garruk
2 Pithing Needle
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Pernicious Deed/EE
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Open

The list provides a ton of game against Miracles (8 cards to bring in), and has relevancy in other matchups. The 2 Open slots could be Lingering Souls, but I doubt there's enough stuff for us to bring out to bring them in. I'm thinking these two slots could be Composts if the meta is very BUG/we lose enough. If you're running GSZ, Tracker is pretty nutty in the BUG matchup.

I'll try it out.

-Matt

[Claymore]

Just spit-balling, but what about Cataclysm? It kills all planeswalkers and almost all lands. Miracles is very particular about their Jace and lands, going so far as to fetch their ~8-10 basics. Worst case it leaves them an active CounterTop with a Terminus on top, but you can choose stuff such as Goyf, KotR (who would get absolutely massive with all the lands), or Deathrite to go with a Sylvan Library. Not so good for your Liliana I guess, and it is counteracted by your own Gaddock Teeg.

Otherwise, judging from a skim of the Miracles thread they hate:

-Liliana
-Deed is annoying
-Wastelands on their mana

[ZeinVoncy]

Thrun's older brother Troll Ascetic is also an option, a mana cheaper yet slightly weaker.
I have been using Sigarda, Host of Herons for awhile now. She's a decent S/B card for BUG, but for most other decks doesn't do well with the removal.
If we don't want to do Shaman battles all day, Ground Seal is an older card I've always appreciated.

[Esper3k]

I haven't been a huge fan of Thrun against UW just because he's still another creature in a deck that's designed to wreck creatures.

Honestly, I've still just been a big fan of Choke. It's an enchantment, so tougher for them to remove, it constrains their mana, which makes it much more difficult for them to abuse their card advantage and continue to cast spells like Counterspell, and it attacks them from another non-creature angle that they have to deal with. Just my $0.02.

[godofallu]

You're talking about the difference between 4 and 5 (5-6 off GSZ). I know this may not seem like much but it does matter. It's not 1-2 or 2-3. Both of those are meant to be accomplished as most of our decks are geared to reach that amount of mana. 4-5 are late game as well as showing that no Knight activations have been made. Most importantly, "We are not Bant."



Perish point is mute. Perish kills both and the Lili point is an issue for anything except Sigarda. Sigarda costing 1 more means that in some matches (and the others in some cases) that 1 additional mana means that ever Sigarda is on the "backfoot" (negatively). As the last thing here, only Sigarda can be countered if you draw her.

In the end I'll ask, "What's more likely to be faced, a Liliana or a counter?"

Thrun block Goyf all day it it becomes a matter of deciding if you can take the damage or you have to chump (in which case you're buying cards to deal with goyf). Thrun will typically be outclassed by Goyf. That will never be a question.

Goyf will never be able to regenerate without help. That's where I think you should reconsider your thought. Let's look at it another way, "What do 2 opposing goyf do?" The answer is simple, they stare at each other until one side is able to get help from something else. Without that something else, 2 Goyf will never be able to attack past each other.

So how does Thrun surpass this? Simple, Thrun can't be killed easily.

What about offensively? We should be able to deal with things that would block the path of our own threats. Sometimes, that is just an attack. Most of the time, we actually kill those things. So, if we're counting on killing things, why should it matter what we play? As long as it can't be countered (something Sigarda lacks) and have some durability, it shouldn't matter.



I have doubts so you'll have to justify this in order for me to actually think it's more than an opinion.



So your point is that both are bad against decks that need a fast clock... Using Knight is irrelevant. 1) That's not the card we're thinking of replacing 2) It's filling a different roll.

If you're thinking of cutting a Knight, I'd advise that you look towards other options. Knight's amazing (although it isn't always the answer).



I have no interest of a singleton (1 main & 1 board in my case). I am, however, a fan of testing and I think this is a great idea (testing). Test all of your ideas you meantioned, get back to us with what you think. Once or during that process, I encourage any/everyone to try it out as well. Compare the outcomes. We'll all improve on that. (Sidenote: Been drinking, I'm not editing)

Honestly if the points I allready made for why I found Thrun to be bad in testing didn't sway you at all then maybe you should just run the card yourself. Oh and Bant runs 23 lands with 4 mana dorks, which is the exact same as Rock. In fact Rock runs more card draw so it usually has access to even more lands/mana.

I have no intentions of cutting KOTR, I was using it as an example of a perfect threat. One that is good in every matchup. In comparison to Thrun which ranges from good to terrible.

A Liliana is more likely against BUG then a counter is. A GSZ for Thrun (which can be countered) is more likely than casting him from hand. In the Tarmogoyf war the extra Thrun is inferior to another Tarmogoyf, a Garruk, a Liliana, a KOTR, an Arena... basically everything. Hopefully you kind of understand some of my points now.

@Matt So what would be the 8 cards you would takeout and bring in with that sideboard against Miracles/Bug?

As to the Souls maindeck I have gone back and forth from that route over and over again. Bitter Blossom, Souls, Sorin, Lily, Jitte all together make a super grindy deck that is very good against BUG/Miracles but has absolutely no chance against combo or super aggro. I don't think a true mix is possible since the tokens are underwhelming without some type of support. I doubt Sorin on his own could make Souls scary enough and equipment sucks against Abrupt Decay and sideboard ancient grudge/disenchant + snapcaster. You can check my sig for a list of both versions if you're interested.

I like Garruk Releantless more then any other options people have tried against BUG/Miracles in the usual Rock Frame, same goes for Maelstrom pulse.

[Fakedylan]

Got 4th at my local shop for GPT Denver. Near the end of the night I was pretty well burnt out and made quite a few play mistakes. Overall though I feel like I played the deck quite well specially since I'm more of a RUG player and have novice experience when it comes to The Rock (junk).

http://www.crossroadgames.net/gpt-de...p-8-decklists/

Thats a link to the top 8 decklist, there's also a video of one of my matches on the live stream. Some of the mistakes I make are quite funny and obvious but as I said I was quite tired by the time we went into the top 8.

Played a total of 7 matches.

BUG Delver - Lose 1-2
Dredge - Win 2-1
Elves - Win 2-1
RUG Delver - Win 2-0
BUG - ID we played out the match but both decided to draw before hand to make sure we both made it into the top8. He ended up sweeping the game we played so that worked out well.
Semifinals BUG - 2-0 This was the match caught on camera.
Quater finals BUG - 2-0 Got into the topdeck mode both games but he kept recovering and just locking the game out with Jace.

[damionblackgear]

Honestly if the points I allready made for why I found Thrun to be bad in testing didn't sway you at all then maybe you should just run the card yourself. Oh and Bant runs 23 lands with 4 mana dorks, which is the exact same as Rock. In fact Rock runs more card draw so it usually has access to even more lands/mana.

I have no intentions of cutting KOTR, I was using it as an example of a perfect threat. One that is good in every matchup. In comparison to Thrun which ranges from good to terrible.

A Liliana is more likely against BUG then a counter is. A GSZ for Thrun (which can be countered) is more likely than casting him from hand. In the Tarmogoyf war the extra Thrun is inferior to another Tarmogoyf, a Garruk, a Liliana, a KOTR, an Arena... basically everything. Hopefully you kind of understand some of my points now.

Sure, I'll bite.

I used to run Thrun in a hexproof Bant type list.

Testing in another deck, regardless of the comparisons, is not testing in this deck. Thrun in Bant is different than Thrun in Rock. The purpose and ways to take advantage of are almost completely unique to each deck. Test it in Rock and I'll be able to consider your testing valid to The Rock.

I mentioned Knight as being cut because that's were you went to making comparisons. That in it's self leaves me to think that you're considering cutting knight (Mind you, I also advised against that exchange). If it's not replacing Knight, why is it being compared? I was confused why it was not being compared to the card it'd actually replace as opposed to one it'll be alongside. When you do that, you might as well pick something like forest and start comparing there.

As far as Thrun being a "perfect threat", it's not. The best part about that is that nothing is (not even Knight). That's the point of magic being versatile. Everything has ways to be answered. The point of Thrun is to open an avenue of attack that we typically do not have (self-protected threat). Thrun isn't always the ideal threat, but by no means is it terrible as a threat in general. Or, are you insisting that by not being the largest creature with a relevant ability(s) to the match on the battlefield it's terrible?

If that is what you're looking for, I would advise you to try something like Reanimator as they will always have a "Perfect Threat" (if you do, can you also move to my meta? I like byes).

Liliana is possible from Bug, not Miracles though (at least no list I've seen). Between the two (which are my main reasons to advocate Thrun), Counters are more likely than Liliana. Adjusting to make it one deck instead of two does skew the truth a little. When you start looking at an overall meta as well there is more targeted removal and counters than there are Liliana.

Gofy vs Goyf is a staring competition (Someone has to flinch). When you add more Goyf to the table than the other person, you can typically make that a win. Thrun operates as a Goyf in that fight. What do 2 Goyf do in combat? They bounce off of each other. What do Goyf do when running into Thrun? They bounce back. Granted, you'll have to regenerate Thrun, but the same result is achieved. What happens if you attack with Goyf + Thrun into Goyf? You deal damage to the opponent. Again, same result (regen needed). You may deal a little less damage but not by much (as goyf is typically a 5/6 and 5-4=1).

Preferences aside, it seems as though you're against Thrun due to your experiences with trying it in another deck. May I remind you, the deck you're comparing to is using AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT COLOR (I can bold what I think are important points as well ). Perhaps you should try it in this deck instead of thinking that the logic for that deck applies to this one. Also, the format may be different than what you originally tested in.

[Fakedylan]

I'm all for running Thrun as a one of in my Junk list. The above post points out most of the reasons why. The biggest one for myself though is he can kill Jace, that card wrecks my deck if it stays on the table too long.

[godofallu]

Sure, I'll bite.



Testing in another deck, regardless of the comparisons, is not testing in this deck. Thrun in Bant is different than Thrun in Rock. The purpose and ways to take advantage of are almost completely unique to each deck. Test it in Rock and I'll be able to consider your testing valid to The Rock.

I mentioned Knight as being cut because that's were you went to making comparisons. That in it's self leaves me to think that you're considering cutting knight (Mind you, I also advised against that exchange). If it's not replacing Knight, why is it being compared? I was confused why it was not being compared to the card it'd actually replace as opposed to one it'll be alongside. When you do that, you might as well pick something like forest and start comparing there.

As far as Thrun being a "perfect threat", it's not. The best part about that is that nothing is (not even Knight). That's the point of magic being versatile. Everything has ways to be answered. The point of Thrun is to open an avenue of attack that we typically do not have (self-protected threat). Thrun isn't always the ideal threat, but by no means is it terrible as a threat in general. Or, are you insisting that by not being the largest creature with a relevant ability(s) to the match on the battlefield it's terrible?

If that is what you're looking for, I would advise you to try something like Reanimator as they will always have a "Perfect Threat" (if you do, can you also move to my meta? I like byes).

Liliana is possible from Bug, not Miracles though (at least no list I've seen). Between the two (which are my main reasons to advocate Thrun), Counters are more likely than Liliana. Adjusting to make it one deck instead of two does skew the truth a little. When you start looking at an overall meta as well there is more targeted removal and counters than there are Liliana.

Gofy vs Goyf is a staring competition (Someone has to flinch). When you add more Goyf to the table than the other person, you can typically make that a win. Thrun operates as a Goyf in that fight. What do 2 Goyf do in combat? They bounce off of each other. What do Goyf do when running into Thrun? They bounce back. Granted, you'll have to regenerate Thrun, but the same result is achieved. What happens if you attack with Goyf + Thrun into Goyf? You deal damage to the opponent. Again, same result (regen needed). You may deal a little less damage but not by much (as goyf is typically a 5/6 and 5-4=1).

Preferences aside, it seems as though you're against Thrun due to your experiences with trying it in another deck. May I remind you, the deck you're comparing to is using AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT COLOR (I can bold what I think are important points as well ). Perhaps you should try it in this deck instead of thinking that the logic for that deck applies to this one. Also, the format may be different than what you originally tested in.

I'm just trying to say that when playing against common decks in the legacy field, especially the decks I thought it would have been great against, I was always underwhelmed with Thrun.

You can say the presence of blue for Jace and brainstorm completely changes the deck type, even if it's still a midranged KOTR deck, but the decks I played against and Thrun himself haven't changed.

So are you stating that Thrun has been great for you? Or are you just misreading and misinterpreting everything I said because you like to post while drunk. I found Thrun to be bad against the field, and definitely not worth a slot. That's the point I was trying to make.

[sdematt]

Against Miracles you're bringing out 4 STP, 3 IoK, and 1 Ulvenwald Tracker, and bringing in (according to my board) 2 Teeg, 3 Hymn, 1 Elspeth/Garruk, 2 Pithing Needle.

-Matt

[Barbed Blightning]

Thrun would be exclusively SB tech for me. The fact he is guaranteed to hit and sticks around means your early discard can be aimed at Lilianas, Jaces and the like. He would be my trump against miracles, and merely would have the added bonus of being relevant against other matches.

That said, I like Needle. In D&T, we had Phyrexian Revoker, and it was my favorite creature in the deck most games. Being able to shut down a critical permanent (Top, Jace, Deed, Mom, Vial, etc.) for one mana is very powerful. Many legacy decks seem to have so few actual win cons. Miracles being enemy no. 1 right now, Jace and Entreat are their only actual means of securing a win. I just need to find room in my SB.

Similarly, I'd like to find room for choke again. Somehow.

[sdematt]

Thrun would be exclusively SB tech for me. The fact he is guaranteed to hit and sticks around means your early discard can be aimed at Lilianas, Jaces and the like. He would be my trump against miracles, and merely would have the added bonus of being relevant against other matches.

That said, I like Needle. In D&T, we had Phyrexian Revoker, and it was my favorite creature in the deck most games. Being able to shut down a critical permanent (Top, Jace, Deed, Mom, Vial, etc.) for one mana is very powerful. Many legacy decks seem to have so few actual win cons. Miracles being enemy no. 1 right now, Jace and Entreat are their only actual means of securing a win. I just need to find room in my SB.

Similarly, I'd like to find room for choke again. Somehow.

Just run a 75-card sideboard :P

-Matt

[Barbed Blightning]

Just run a 75-card sideboard :P

-Matt

In all seriousness, that's why I love Junk. The entire deck feels like a sideboard built to hate out everything (save maybe Miracles, but even then I think I just need more practice against it.)

[Esper3k]

Here's a Junk list I've been rocking for awhile and been having a lot of fun with:

// Lands
1 [SOM] Plains (3)
2 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
2 [U] Bayou
3 [B] Scrubland
1 [5E] Swamp (1)
2 [R] Savannah
2 [MPR] Wasteland
1 [LG] Karakas
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [M13] Forest (3)
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
1 [DK] Maze of Ith

// Creatures
4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
4 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
2 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic

// Spells
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
3 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
3 [DKA] Lingering Souls
2 [4E] Sylvan Library
2 [ROE] Inquisition of Kozilek
2 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
1 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
1 [NPH] Batterskull

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 2 [M13] Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 [COM] Lightning Greaves
SB: 2 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 2 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 [M13] Duress
SB: 2 [TE] Choke
SB: 1 [MM] Tower of the Magistrate

With RIP and now all the Deathrite Shaman / Abrupt Decays running around, I've been less and less impressed with Tarmogoyfs. I also wanted to have a stronger matchup against the control decks (especially UW), thus I'm running the Stoneforge package and Lingering Souls. The Maelstrom Pulse over 4th StP main is again because of dealing with Planeswalkers and likewise the 4/2 split of Thoughtseize over IoK. With Batterskull / Jitte, Bob/Thoughtseize/Sylvan Library also hurt much less than in the non-SFM packages.

Sideboardwise against UW, I actually board:

-1 Maze of Ith
-1 Umezawa's Jitte
-3 Swords to Plowshares
-4 Deathrite Shaman
+2 Choke
+2 Extirpate
+2 Gaddock Teeg
+1 Lightning Greeves
+2 Duress

If they're running SFM package, I'd change it up to +1 Duress / +1 Tower.

I actually like Extirpate quite a bit against UW because they are so dependent upon StP / Jace / Terminus that Extirpating any of those severely cripples their deck. Extirpate in a corner case can also be used in response to a pop Top activation to shuffle up their deck and prevent them from popping into a Terminus on your turn.