[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[litenkatt]

@chapman24

Interesting list..

Few changes I'd do, not saying they are correct though

-2 Birds of Paradise. I feel like veteran explorer ramps us enough. If you want more ramp, I'd suggest sakura elder-tribe or sylvan ranger. Birds also dies easily to deed and it doesn't have any synergy with recurring nightmare
-1 Dark Confidant. While this card is really good, revealing a grave titan or even terastodon is game.. :S. Nic fit generally has a high mana curve and I don't think that's the kind of decks where u want dark confidant. I do think nic fit needs some more card draw engine, but this dude is not what we want

Haven't tried Fauna shaman but seems like she could do some work I guess.. nice synergy with recurring nightmare but idk still feels pretty loose

+1 GSZ. I just don't see why you wouldn't want a 4th one, such an important card to nic fit imo

[bruizar]

Just a short update on the intuition build i was playing. It doesnt have a place in a drs meta so i put the deck down for a while. Working on godo mud and pillar ofmthe paruns for now until i have a good plan for nic fit again. Perhaps a cryptic command eternal witness lock snd play the control game.

If i were to play nic fit today, i'd go for the scapewish version. If drs is giving you head aches for eternal witness etc, punishing fires is really good right now.

[TerribleTim68]

Ok, so I put this list together -

Creatures - 19
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sakura Tribe-Elder
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Eternal Witness
2 Acadamy Rector
1 Fierce Empath
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Sun Titan
1 Yosei, The Morning Star
1 Baneslayer Angel
Spells - 20
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Diabolic Intent
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Vindicate
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Recurring Nightmare
Lands - 22
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Phyrexian Tower
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Scrubland
4 Bayou
2 Llanowar Wastes
5 Fetchlands

Total = 61 cards

Now, all I gotta do is get brave enough to run it at my LGS. A couple words on this current list. I don't own any Savannahs, so swapping out the lone Scrubland isn't an option or I would have done it already. I think Primeval Titan makes a HUGE difference getting to that Twin-Towers/Yosei lock. Solitairing the deck I find that to be much better than spending pointless turns Topping to find what you're looking for trying to set it up. The 2 Llanowar Wastes were an attempt to have a better chance of black/green mana early and in my opening hand, those two slots were fetches before. That early Veteran Explorer or Deathrite Shaman matters a lot so I wanted to make sure I got there. Plus, I was having issues with drawing fetches later in the game when there was no lands left to fetch, so at least these can be used all game. I think I can negate the life-loss with the Deathrite Shamans, Thragtusk and Baneslayer Angel once it gets moving so I think it'll be ok. The lone Baneslayer Angel verses two is because I only own one. I also don't own a Moat. Those are the two Deathrite Shaman spots in my list. I had a Grave Titan in there before I got my Primeval Titan. I like the way he mucks up the board with blockers, maybe sideboard against certain decks? I also had Kokusho, the Evening Star in there before I got the Baneslayer Angel. Again, maybe sidebaord for the extra life gain against certain decks?

Ok, now it's your turn. What don't you like? What would you do?

[Tao]

@Tim: I would play Recycle (or Null Profusion) over Phyrexian Arena. It is a much better target for Rector and also worth 6 Mana when hardcasted. You could also split Sylvan Ranger and Tribe Elder 1/1 for Cabal Therapy reasons.

[TerribleTim68]

Thanks Tao. I actually looked all over for a Null Profusion but NONE of the local shops had one (I also recently went to Salt Lake for vacation & the 5 shops I stopped at there didn't have one either). They also didn't have a Recycle either. Eventually I'll get one, most likely the black one since it has better artwork.

As for the Sylvan Ranger/Sakura-Tribe Elder split, I considered it but felt the Sakura-Tribe Elder was better verses Dredge. But I see what you're saying so I'll consider that one.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/312247

Thoughts?

[feline]

This list might help as a reference for sideboard stuff:
~32nd place - Colin Wu - 2012 Gen Con Legacy Championship - 350 players - Aug-18th-2012 - http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...7&iddeck=65752
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sun Titan
2 Fleshbag Marauder
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Veteran Explorer
Instants [7]
1 Skeletal Scrying
2 Ghastly Demise
4 Swords to Plowshares
Sorceries [10]
1 Regrowth
2 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Cabal Therapy
Enchantments [4]
1 Sylvan Library
3 Pernicious Deed
Planeswalkers [3]
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
Lands [22]
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Marsh Flats
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
2 Windswept Heath
4 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
Sideboard [15]
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Pithing Needle
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Krosan Grip
2 Mindbreak Trap

I don't know why this deck doesn't have more success stateside, on the other side of the Atlantic it's seen alot more.

(Also come to Comics Cube on Thursday TTim68, since you're back in town)

[TheArchitect]

@Tim, If were to to build GBW rector without moat and nether void I would make the following the changes from your list:

-1 Yosei, -1 Sun titan, -1 Empath, -1 Baneslayer, -2 Vindicate
+1 Armada Wurm, +2 Abrupt Decay, +1 Faith's Fetters, +1 Elspeth/Garruk, prime hunter, +0 (down to 60 cards)

Im a big fan of primetitan myself, but armada wurm might be better in your deck. If you really like prime titan, which I do, maybe do both. So your 2 6 drops can be GSZ able, and you can cut sun titan, yosei and empath.

Abrupt decays are really good right now. And Faiths fetters is still really good with rector.

Elspeth/Prime hunter help the miracles match up tremendously. Prime hunter more so, but GGG can be tricky.

You dont really need baneslayer/yosei without moat its pretty lackluster.

I like the 2/2 deathright/tribe-elder split.

I have tried recycle yet, but it seems like a good swap for arena on paper.

While I am not anti 61 cards, your list actually has some wriggle room since it isnt so rector reliant, so why not do 60?


Also, definitly change the llanowar wastes back to fetches. You can always grab bayous with them. Dont worry about running out of "real" land late game after a few prime titan triggers. 12ish land is way more than enough. Having a high fetch concentration is also important for top. If you dont physically have the fetches, then llanowar wastes isnt too bad.

I don't know why this deck doesn't have more success stateside, on the other side of the Atlantic it's seen alot more.

I dont know either, its well positioned in the meta. I think there just isnt enough really good players playing it.

I have to say though, that list you posted looks really janky (even noting that its from a slightly older and different meta).

[chapman24]

@chapman24

Interesting list..

Few changes I'd do, not saying they are correct though

-2 Birds of Paradise. I feel like veteran explorer ramps us enough. If you want more ramp, I'd suggest sakura elder-tribe or sylvan ranger. Birds also dies easily to deed and it doesn't have any synergy with recurring nightmare
-1 Dark Confidant. While this card is really good, revealing a grave titan or even terastodon is game.. :S. Nic fit generally has a high mana curve and I don't think that's the kind of decks where u want dark confidant. I do think nic fit needs some more card draw engine, but this dude is not what we want

Haven't tried Fauna shaman but seems like she could do some work I guess.. nice synergy with recurring nightmare but idk still feels pretty loose

+1 GSZ. I just don't see why you wouldn't want a 4th one, such an important card to nic fit imo

Thanks for looking it over.

I was also thinking that the Fauna Shaman was a little cute, I have been trimming it down each time I playtest, I started with 3 then 2 and now only the one left so I'm willing to let that go. I could try out GSZ in this spot. As for the Birds I really like the extra ramp to start and since I have the Natural Order package in the SB it is nice to have more early green creatures, but how good is Natural Order into Progenitus right now? Would opening up 5-6 SB slots be better?

I like the Dark Confidant vs. control decks as a mid game drop when both players are out of gas and by then I hope to have a top in play.

Thoughts?

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Thanks for looking it over.

I was also thinking that the Fauna Shaman was a little cute, I have been trimming it down each time I playtest, I started with 3 then 2 and now only the one left so I'm willing to let that go. I could try out GSZ in this spot. As for the Birds I really like the extra ramp to start and since I have the Natural Order package in the SB it is nice to have more early green creatures, but how good is Natural Order into Progenitus right now? Would opening up 5-6 SB slots be better?

I like the Dark Confidant vs. control decks as a mid game drop when both players are out of gas and by then I hope to have a top in play.

Thoughts?

I'd say Phyrexian Arena or Sylvan Library over Dark Confidant, and even then those are sketchy choices due to vulnerability to Deed.

Arena is the more consistent one, and probably the most appropriate for this archetype. However, Library can act like a pseudo-top and in a pinch can draw you two cards for 8 life.

[Tao]

Just a quick report. I played another ML Trial. This time I played a Punishing Fire version.


// Lands
4 [FUT] Grove of the Burnwillows
1 [US] Phyrexian Tower
3 [B] Forest
2 [B] Swamp
2 [B] Mountain
2 [B] Bayou
1 [B] Taiga
1 [B] Badlands
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills

// Creatures
4 [WL] Veteran Explorer
2 [M11] Sylvan Ranger
2 [FD] Eternal Witness
2 [DKA] Huntmaster of the Fells
3 [M13] Thragtusk
1 [ALA] Broodmate Dragon
1 [M12] Primeval Titan

// Spells
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
4 [ZEN] Punishing Fire
3 [AP] Pernicious Deed
2 [PLC] Damnation
2 [EX] Recurring Nightmare

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 3 [US] Carpet of Flowers
SB: 3 [RTR] Slaughter Games
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [UL] Engineered Plague



R1 Halldir with Goblins

G1
Poor Halldir. Already kicked him out of the master, and now I replaced Brainstorm and Jace with Punishing Fire and Huntmaster. This matchup is one-sided. Therapy is broken against Matron/Ringleader, Punishing Fire is unfair, Deed is unfair, Thragtusk is unfair, Huntmaster is great.

SB
- 1 Recurring Nightmare
- 1 Broodmate Dragon
+ 2 Engineered Plague

G2
I have no idea what to take out. Everything is good. He has 2 Lands and Vial, I have Deed. I don't have Explorer and don't Zenith for it when I see his mana situation so he just scoops. I don't think it would have mattered if he had lands.

2-0, 1-0


R2 clipzzzz with RUG

G1
I keep a one lander with Forest, Explorer, Sylvan Ranger, double Cabal Therapy a Deed and a Huntmaster. I draw Top the next turn and stall on one land for a bit while he disrupts my Mana and beats me with Delver but can't hit on the ground with his Mongoose. I eventually find a Swamp and explode just in time.

SB
- 3 Cabal Therapy
+ 3 Carpet of Flowers

G2
It is very close again. I go to 4 life and have to shuffle away my Top to stay alive. I stabilize with Broodmate Dragon against a 5/6 Goyf and we have a stalemate with no cards in hand. He finds another Tarmogoyf, I find a Thragtusk. I don't remember exactly what happened but I start swinging in the air and we get into a race that I win on the back of Thragtusk life gain and Dragon Token hits.

2-0 (2-0, 4-0)


R3 vaselien with Burn

G1
I win the die roll and I have T3 and T4 Thragtusk but he maindecks Sulfuric Vortex so I only gain life the first time. I have no Deed and no Punishing Fire for his chumpblockers so he is one turn faster than me.

SB
+ 3 Krosan Grip
+ 2 Thoughtseize
- 1 Primeval Titan
- 2 Damnation
- 1 Broodmate Dragon
- 1 Eternal Witness


G2
I have T3, T4 and T5 Thragtusk with Krosan Grip backup. Thats quite the draw.

G3
I have a quick Explorer but I have to shuffle my Top away to live so I have no way to deal with his Ensnaring Bridge, but I do have double Thragtusk and he has no Sulfuric Vortex. I have all 4 Punishing Fire so we both go on very low life but one turn before his deciding topdeck I topdeck Deed, blow up Brdge and attack with Thragtusks ftw.

2-1 (3-0, 6-1)

R4 Bye

I dropped after that and didn't play the final because it is very late in Europe.


- I absolutely love the Maindeck. I would not change a single card. From the feeling it was at least as strong as the BUG version. Especially if there are a lot of Deathrite Shamans Punishing Fire does a good job.

- I absolutely hate the Sideboard but I have no idea how to make a better one. What I want to add are probably a few Go for the Throats to deal with giant Tarmogoyfs and Tombstalkers.

[Arianrhod]

Hrngh.

I suppose that this would be way too good if it said "Each creature without flying," instead of "target creature without flying." Still, this is worthy of consideration for Scapewish at least, and possibly the old PFire/straight Jund versions as well. As a sorcery, it's a solid Wish target, and it can deal with a Tombstalker and a Tarmgoyf at the same time, while doming your opponent for 5 just 'cause.

Note, at the current intersection of meta that we find ourselves within, I would -not- recommend running this card in Scapewish. However, it is definitely worth considering for future meta shifts, and I would recommend picking up a copy to stash on a Wish target page in your binder. The day may well come that this sees play.

-----

At this point, my plan is to play in the legacy challenge at C-bus on Saturday, using Rector. Then I'll be Scapewishing on Sunday in the main event (well, what's the main event for me, anyway). Anyone who's done a legacy challenge at an SCG before, what's the meta like? I'm assuming it'll be something akin to win-a-boxes at GPs -- that is, heavy on combo and "front-loaded" power decks that try to just overwhelm the opponent, with a decent supply of format ringers (miracles, 'blade, BUG, and so on).

I'm not entirely sure that I'm on the Abrupt Decay plan yet or not (for Scapewish). I don't really like the card THAT much, mostly because it's such a known entity. It does fulfill a valued role in combating Junk and BUG, which I expect to be big players at Columbus. There's a sea of options for those 2 slots (assuming that I take it down to 60, which seems likely). Thoughtseizes, Pulses, or Decays are all on the table, as are things like Scavenging Ooze, Acidic Slime, 'Don, and a half dozen other Green Sun targets.

Likewise, I am unsure of what I want to do with the Diabolic Intent slot in Rector. I am convinced that it is no longer the correct choice for that slot. The problem is, then, what role I want what slot to fill. Does it NEED to be a sac outlet? I kind of want to move the Nether Void maindeck, so that I have at least "a" plan g1 vs combo. But there are a lot of problems with that, too -- not the least of which being that I don't have Carpet of Flowers main to recover from it damaging me vs fair decks (Miracles comes immediately to mind). I mean yeah, then you can say that well, just don't play it/Rector it vs fair decks -- but then that's a dead card if I draw it at any point. Maybe Leyline of Sanctity? That interferes with almost every deck somehow, and can ROYALLY dick over some decks g1. It's also an answer to Jace, since they can't fateseal you/ult you anymore. Obviously he still sits there casting Brainstorm every turn, which is still bad, but he's not a wincon by himself anymore. It does nothing to Emrakul-based combo, though. Part of me wants to say that it should be the 4th Green Sun, or the Recycle slot (so that I can keep Arena). Too many options.

So yeah, those are the things I'm mulling over right now. If anyone has thoughts to contribute, that'd be great. I hate having open slots in my Nic Fit decks. There's such a tyranny of options.

[slikwilly]

At this point, my plan is to play in the legacy challenge at C-bus on Saturday, using Rector. Then I'll be Scapewishing on Sunday in the main event (well, what's the main event for me, anyway). Anyone who's done a legacy challenge at an SCG before, what's the meta like? I'm assuming it'll be something akin to win-a-boxes at GPs -- that is, heavy on combo and "front-loaded" power decks that try to just overwhelm the opponent, with a decent supply of format ringers (miracles, 'blade, BUG, and so on).

My first exposure to Nic Fit was JBone crushing me with it during a Legacy Challenge at SCG Madison :) I've played a couple Challenges and don't recall the meta being combo heavy or anything like that. Mostly it seemed like people who like Legacy and scrubbed out of the Standard Open. A friend of mine is actually going to Columbus instead of Denver because he expects a soft field there since all the usual SCG ringers will be in Denver.

Likewise, I am unsure of what I want to do with the Diabolic Intent slot in Rector. I am convinced that it is no longer the correct choice for that slot. The problem is, then, what role I want what slot to fill. Does it NEED to be a sac outlet? I kind of want to move the Nether Void maindeck, so that I have at least "a" plan g1 vs combo. But there are a lot of problems with that, too -- not the least of which being that I don't have Carpet of Flowers main to recover from it damaging me vs fair decks (Miracles comes immediately to mind). I mean yeah, then you can say that well, just don't play it/Rector it vs fair decks -- but then that's a dead card if I draw it at any point. Maybe Leyline of Sanctity? That interferes with almost every deck somehow, and can ROYALLY dick over some decks g1. It's also an answer to Jace, since they can't fateseal you/ult you anymore. Obviously he still sits there casting Brainstorm every turn, which is still bad, but he's not a wincon by himself anymore. It does nothing to Emrakul-based combo, though. Part of me wants to say that it should be the 4th Green Sun, or the Recycle slot (so that I can keep Arena). Too many options.

I pulled my Intent to squeeze in the E-Tutor I mentioned previously. I'm also still considering my Denver options. It's probably a terrible idea, but I kinda want to bring that token list I put up a couple weeks back. Yup, played it zero times (I figured I'd start trying to develop it post-Denver) and now I want to bring it to a GP. Brilliant! Don't be surprised if the guy last in the standings is me giving Nic Fit a bad name ;)

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Funny how that works, eh? Getting crushed by someone inspires you to emulate them to some degree in hopesnof surpassing them? Did it a few times in the Fighting Game Community.

Also, I'm going in blind and inexperienced on Feb 17, and I could use help on siding strategies.

EDIT: http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/ViewDeck/312247

Basically, the jist is as thus:

Out for Manasinks (i.e. Miracles): 3 Vet
Out for NoYard/MinYard: 2 DRS, 1 Ooze
In for Blue-Heavy: 3 Carpet
In for Non-Dredge Combo: 3 IoK/Duress (unsure which would be best: actually thinking IoK since it hits Elves)
In for Weenie Tribal/Tokens (Belcher, Gobbos, Elves, Merfolk): 3 Plague

[TerribleTim68]

(Also come to Comics Cube on Thursday TTim68, since you're back in town)[/color]

I'll try. Honestly it comes down to what time I get out of work and how traffic looks. It's an 1:15 drive on a good day, and I gotta stop and eat somewhere along the way. So it's always tight.

[Siiig]

I've actually been running a single Rakdo's Return in my sideboard as a discard/burn wish target. That being said, I've never wished for it, and never really wanted to wish for it (other than to troll people).

Granted, that's a kill card too, but I feel like there are better kill cards to be used. Damnation?

Isn't Wall of Blossoms straight up better than Sakura-Tribe Elder?

What do you guys think of Blitz Hellion as a GSZ-able answer to Planeswalkers for Scapewish?

Someone already mentioned WoB being different than Elder.


Blitz Hellion then the mention of GroundBreaker as ways of helping with walkers kind of blew my mind. I used to have a huge hard on for Ground Breaker when I was younger then completely forgot about the card. I wind up playing against blue a lot, so it sounds like a really fun way to deal with Jace.

I also run a single Dreadbore in my board as a wish target for these instances, works on Teag too.


I've played quite a few main-board only games against Kich867's new AgroLoam deck. While I'm confident his deck would destroy others, he definitely has a rough time with Scapewish. Slaughter Games on Life from the Loam ends the deck, but you rarely need to take it to that play as our deck should just naturally win before it's necessary.


Towards Miracles... To say it's our worst "fair" matchup seems like an odd thing to say. We're a deck that rolls over fair decks. I think with good play they will still have an extremely rough time.

Honestly, I actually have the worst time against Maverick, I need to get more play time in against it.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Hmm. . . And you are on Scapewish, right? In that case, I can see how Maverick can be more of a problem than Miracles, as Scapewish can pull a win out of nowhere against Miracles but its best removal, Bonfire and Huntsman, gets shafted by Mom and a fatty clock.

[Siiig]

Hmm. . . And you are on Scapewish, right? In that case, I can see how Maverick can be more of a problem than Miracles, as Scapewish can pull a win out of nowhere against Miracles but its best removal, Bonfire and Huntsman, gets shafted by Mom and a fatty clock.

Yup, on Scapewish. I would expect the same thing to be true of Maverick as Miracles (since they're clocks aren't insanely fast, and their threats should be deal-with-able).

[Arianrhod]

Hmm. What's your wishboard setup, Siig, if you don't mind writing it out again? A lot of the means of success vs Maverick comes down to what your Wishboard targets are.

As far as Miracles goes, it really just comes down to how many Slaughter Games you find. Slaughter Games is far and away the best tool against them -- they run so few win conditions that they can't really handle you stripping them out. As long as you're actively developing your mana base while applying pressure on their board state and their deck's contents, you'll be fine. It's an annoying match, to be sure, but not one that is especially hard for Scapewish. Rector has a much more challenging time of it, but can usually pull through -- eventually. I'm talking like 45-minute game-one situations here.

Also, if you want to talk about trolling people with Rakdos Return, before I completely gave up on standard, I designed a mono-black-dual-land deck around Liliana of the Dark Realms. I believe my record was I Rakdos Return'd someone for 63. Good times.

For Scapewish, though, yeah, there's definitely much better uses for a wish slot, lol.

Dreadbore is okay, but Pulse is better, though. Pulse does everything Dreadbore does, but hits more things. Also, both are poor answers to Teeg because usually where you find Teeg, you find Mother of Runes alongside him. The best Teeg answers are Infest and Virtue's Ruin/Perish, bar none.

[Siiig]

Hmm. What's your wishboard setup, Siig, if you don't mind writing it out again? A lot of the means of success vs Maverick comes down to what your Wishboard targets are.

As far as Miracles goes, it really just comes down to how many Slaughter Games you find. Slaughter Games is far and away the best tool against them -- they run so few win conditions that they can't really handle you stripping them out. As long as you're actively developing your mana base while applying pressure on their board state and their deck's contents, you'll be fine. It's an annoying match, to be sure, but not one that is especially hard for Scapewish. Rector has a much more challenging time of it, but can usually pull through -- eventually. I'm talking like 45-minute game-one situations here.

Also, if you want to talk about trolling people with Rakdos Return, before I completely gave up on standard, I designed a mono-black-dual-land deck around Liliana of the Dark Realms. I believe my record was I Rakdos Return'd someone for 63. Good times.

For Scapewish, though, yeah, there's definitely much better uses for a wish slot, lol.

Dreadbore is okay, but Pulse is better, though. Pulse does everything Dreadbore does, but hits more things. Also, both are poor answers to Teeg because usually where you find Teeg, you find Mother of Runes alongside him. The best Teeg answers are Infest and Virtue's Ruin/Perish, bar none.

Good point on the mom/teag thing. A large part of my wish board is currently just things I went through my binder and said "LOL" at, with a some staples.

Board:
3x REB
2x Abrupt Decay (All I got)
1x Dreadbore
1x Shattering Spree
1x Reanimate
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Shift
1x Innocent Blood
1x Damnation
2x (I think?) Slaughter Games
1x Praetor's Grasp


I'm missing one, but I can only imagine it isn't important. Oh...

It's the grasp. Wasted slot for sure haha. If anything I would switch it to +1 Games.