Gatecrash Spoilers

[wcm8]

Axiom of Determining Legacy Playability

1. The card provides a unique, useful effect at the most efficient mana-cost.

Hence why a card like Cancel is inferior to Counterspell, which itself is often less efficient for the intended use than Spell Pierce. Not only that, but as a 3-mana counterspell, Cancel is also inferior to Dissipate and Forbid. The main consideration for playing an 'inferior' version of an existing card is in narrow cases such as a deck utilizing something like Gifts Ungiven, or to increase redundancy to suit a particular strategic goal (e.g. Burn.dec using various iterations of Lightning Bolt.)

The part of the axiom that is subjective is the word 'useful' -- determining usefulness is largely dependent on the metagame as a whole. If every deck were to adopt 4 maindeck Rest in Peace, the usefulness of Tarmogoyf or Deathrite Shaman would be called into question. However, the axiom still provides a framework to evaluate new cards that are added to the pool as new sets are released.

1a. The Jace Rule

Four mana tends to be around the upper limit of playability for competitive Legacy cards. If a deck is playing blue, a card costing four or greater mana needs to either meet or exceed the power level of Jace, the Mind Sculptor or somehow fit into the strategic framework of the deck (e.g. Time Spiral in High Tide). Although Jace is the main consideration for Blue-based decks, other colors will have similar considerations, such as Elspeth in mono-White. The reason the Jace Rule even exists is because of format considerations: the speed at which aggressive and combo decks can goldfish; the prevalence of Wasteland, Stifle and mana-taxing counters such as Daze; and the fact that there are plenty of game-ending bombs available at lower mana-investment.

[morgan_coke]

I think Biovisionary will lead to a better combo deck than people are thinking it will. You can fetch it with green sun's zenith, and there's plenty of ways to fetch up Mirrorweave as well. Both pieces of the combo are blue, and unlike most "win the game" clauses, it doesn't trigger at the start of your upkeep, but rather at the end of your turn, which is a big, big improvement. I dunno, maybe a U/G shell with Hierarchs/Zeniths, Ponders/Brainstorms and then a bunch of counters/disruption and a green critter toolbox or something? Or you could add either black or white for Bitterblossom or some other token generator to get up to four critters. Things like Dryad Arbor and the land that makes a 0/1 token could be useful, or maybe something kind of out there like beacon of creation. I'm just kind of spitballing right now, don't know if it would be good, but definitely seems possible.

[marax]

I think Biovisionary will lead to a better combo deck than people are thinking it will.. ... Or you could add either black or white for Bitterblossom or some other token generator to get up to four critters. Things like Dryad Arbor and the land that makes a 0/1 token could be useful, or maybe something kind of out there like beacon of creation. I'm just kind of spitballing right now, don't know if it would be good, but definitely seems possible.

Dude, you need 4 Biovisionary not just any 4 creatures. The card is junk albeit on the fun side of things. Nevertheless it is still junk.

[Greenpoe]

I really like Specter too. Not sure if it will really fit into anything. Deathrite Shaman; Baleful Stix; Nightveil Spectre gives a nice 1/2/3 casting cost step of creatures.
Being able to play opponents lands means eventually you can play any spells you exile. Could be fun with Jace 2.0; fateseal and leave the top card so you can cast it yourself...

Nightveil pitches to Force, which is quite nice. I think a variation of Team America could play Nightveil Specter. It doesn't say "until end of turn" so you can play the exiled cards whenever you want. Playing UGB + Shaman means you could cast pretty much anything, and on a minor note, it would be really fun to steal & play their spells considering the diversity of Legacy. Also, exiling the top card effectively counters Enlightened Tutor.

[wcm8]

Dude, you need 4 Biovisionary not just any 4 creatures. The card is junk albeit on the fun side of things. Nevertheless it is still junk.

Dude, he mentioned the use of Mirrorweave.

[wcm8]

Also, exiling the top card effectively counters Enlightened Tutor.

Not really, since any deck playing E. Tutor will 99% of the time cast it at the end of your turn/during their upkeep.

[bruizar]

Axiom of Determining Legacy Playability

1. The card provides a unique, useful effect at the most efficient mana-cost.

Hence why a card like Cancel is inferior to Counterspell, which itself is often less efficient for the intended use than Spell Pierce. Not only that, but as a 3-mana counterspell, Cancel is also inferior to Dissipate and Forbid. The main consideration for playing an 'inferior' version of an existing card is in narrow cases such as a deck utilizing something like Gifts Ungiven, or to increase redundancy to suit a particular strategic goal (e.g. Burn.dec using various iterations of Lightning Bolt.)

The part of the axiom that is subjective is the word 'useful' -- determining usefulness is largely dependent on the metagame as a whole. If every deck were to adopt 4 maindeck Rest in Peace, the usefulness of Tarmogoyf or Deathrite Shaman would be called into question. However, the axiom still provides a framework to evaluate new cards that are added to the pool as new sets are released.

1a. The Jace Rule

Four mana tends to be around the upper limit of playability for competitive Legacy cards. If a deck is playing blue, a card costing four or greater mana needs to either meet or exceed the power level of Jace, the Mind Sculptor or somehow fit into the strategic framework of the deck (e.g. Time Spiral in High Tide). Although Jace is the main consideration for Blue-based decks, other colors will have similar considerations, such as Elspeth in mono-White. The reason the Jace Rule even exists is because of format considerations: the speed at which aggressive and combo decks can goldfish; the prevalence of Wasteland, Stifle and mana-taxing counters such as Daze; and the fact that there are plenty of game-ending bombs available at lower mana-investment.

I gotta say, I have been eyeballing Counterflux from RTR for a while now. I really think its a decent sideboard card for UWr control mirrors even though its 3 mana.

Also, Gideon 2.0 isn't THAT bad. It's a very resilient creature. You can just ramp it if you know the opponent has a plowshares and wait until you can deal with that card, and you can just beat with it after some mass removal. There are more powerful alternatives for our format, but don't forget that layer9b plays Gideon 1.0. Perhaps it can also make a use out of Gideon 2.0

[Gheizen64]

Nightveil pitches to Force, which is quite nice. I think a variation of Team America could play Nightveil Specter. It doesn't say "until end of turn" so you can play the exiled cards whenever you want. Playing UGB + Shaman means you could cast pretty much anything, and on a minor note, it would be really fun to steal & play their spells considering the diversity of Legacy. Also, exiling the top card effectively counters Enlightened Tutor.

It's a black Ophidian Variant. Not sure it's playable, but has some perks:

- It flies, which means it can't be blocked by most creatures
- it trade with Delver, a broken card, so it must be good
- R&D employee A: "How can we make this black specter better for eternal?" B:"We give it awesome!" A:"Awesome!"
- It still get killed by everything, making Ritual into this too risky

Also, the ability get basically hard countered by Top. Well, you can play stolen lands and that's cool, but still.

Now, can i ask you fucking R&D why the hell couldn't you print something similar for Rakdos instead of a 4RB Unleash haste flying 5/4???

3 Hybrid Red/black mana, 3/1 flying haste, whenever hit both player discard then draw. Sigh. Red where art thou?

[wcm8]

I gotta say, I have been eyeballing Counterflux from RTR for a while now. I really think its a decent sideboard card for UWr control mirrors even though its 3 mana.

Also, Gideon 2.0 isn't THAT bad. It's a very resilient creature. You can just ramp it if you know the opponent has a plowshares and wait until you can deal with that card, and you can just beat with it after some mass removal. There are more powerful alternatives for our format, but don't forget that layer9b plays Gideon 1.0. Perhaps it can also make a use out of Gideon 2.0

Counterflux is a fine card and provides a unique effect, thus meeting the axiom's requirements. I've actually tested it in RUGB Cascade, and it seemed okay, though for that deck Black discard is a better control element. In a UXr deck, Cflux seems completely reasonable.

[catmint]

The specter looks super fun in control mirrors. But the overall utility of a card like hypnotic specter is probably better even though it does not have awesome. Anyway both cards are not playable... competes with to Vendilion Clique.

[Barook]

I think Biovisionary will lead to a better combo deck than people are thinking it will. You can fetch it with green sun's zenith, and there's plenty of ways to fetch up Mirrorweave as well. Both pieces of the combo are blue, and unlike most "win the game" clauses, it doesn't trigger at the start of your upkeep, but rather at the end of your turn, which is a big, big improvement. I dunno, maybe a U/G shell with Hierarchs/Zeniths, Ponders/Brainstorms and then a bunch of counters/disruption and a green critter toolbox or something? Or you could add either black or white for Bitterblossom or some other token generator to get up to four critters. Things like Dryad Arbor and the land that makes a 0/1 token could be useful, or maybe something kind of out there like beacon of creation. I'm just kind of spitballing right now, don't know if it would be good, but definitely seems possible.

Maybe Elves? They tend to have a crapton of creatures. You could also Mirrorweave your Elves into something fat or a bunch of lords for value. Maybe Natural Order as back-up combo?

[lyracian]

The specter looks super fun in control mirrors. But the overall utility of a card like hypnotic specter is probably better even though it does not have awesome. Anyway both cards are not playable... competes with to Vendilion Clique.

You do not however really want 4 Vendilion Clique's. Specter is a fun card but since both Hypnotic Specter and Vampire Nighthawk only see fringe play in Legacy I think this will join them as an occasionally used card. It should be cheap enough that I can grab 4 to play around with in a BUG shell at our weekly casual legacy tournament.

[morgan_coke]

Maybe Elves? They tend to have a crapton of creatures. You could also Mirrorweave your Elves into something fat or a bunch of lords for value. Maybe Natural Order as back-up combo?

NO-Pro is actually the biggest obstacle I see for Biovisionary maybe becoming part of a deck, since they both require a green critter and a four mana sorcery and NO-Pro is much less restrictive on its requirements. Then again, redundancy is redundant, and BVMW can win through things like a tight race or Life.dec where Prog can't. But yeah, those ideas both seem reasonable, I'm just not a combo oriented player so I know I won't be able to come up with the precise configuration or plan to do it.

[DragoFireheart]

Legacy-playable walkers need to be goddamn amazing at 4 mana or pretty good at 3 mana.

AKA: not any time soon.

[Tammit67]

Gatecrash spoiler:
0/249 cards worth revealing to ad nauseum
2/249 gravehate cards
1/249 anti combo card

Won't affect me much

[Koby]

Gatecrash spoiler:
0/249 cards worth revealing to ad nauseum
2/249 gravehate cards
1/249 anti combo card

Won't affect me much

1/249 with the Elf sub-type, but
0/249 worth playing in Elves.

I'll keep waiting I guess.

[DragoFireheart]

0/249 worthwhile burn spells.

Guess I'll keep waiting too.

[Vacrix]

0/249 cards worth revealing to ad nauseum

Really??! Psssh.. I guess I'm going to be the only one playing Enter the Infinite into Emrakul in ANT.

[DragoFireheart]

Really??! Psssh.. I guess I'm going to be the only one playing Enter the Infinite into Emrakul in ANT.

Be a pro and use Draco over that lame tentacle monster.

[Ziveeman]

Gruul - 0 Legacy-playable cards probably

:(