Interesting. against aggro decks I often am willing to throw away cloudposts in lieu of massive lifegain. My real point wasn't that your all is dust wouldn't be countered, but rather that in that board state, it seems like 1x Primeval titan beats all their bears, so you lose more than him if you all is dust. Sounds like the game was wrapped up either way, so the question is more theoretical and thoughts for the future, which are important for this deck.Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Hmmm. Interesting point -- and certainly fair. I will definitely not profess to know all of the correct lines of play after one local event! You going to be able to make it down to the NELC again on Saturday?
How is Thirst for Knowledge in this deck?
I'm pretty sure it's not: you rarely want to be discarding cards under the best of circumstances, and your most potent cards outside of Crop Rotation are Top and EMap. Why would you expose them to Extraction-effects before using them?
]
Yup I'll be there
@ Mockingbird, yes your assumption was correct, I cannot afford the, so called, "paychecks" yet, and I was looking for budget, as I am a huge fan of legacy, and for the longest time had a mono green ramp to primeval turn 5-6 casual deck. So reminiscing with that would be amazing. Although I am definitely a Blue/Control player, so if money wasn't an option I wouldn't care. You also said something about Breeding Pools, wouldn't the 2 life be a liability when compared to mono green? or no?
@Rock Lee, thanks for the list, I will be more than happy to try and test the deck and give you some results, since data is your friend lol.
That honestly depends on what strategy you are playing against and how badly you need an untapped Breeding Pool. Rock Lee would know better than me which decks the 2 Life would be a liability. Shocklands are not as easy to use as original duals, but they are doable.
Other than that, two things to remember: 1. you can always do end of their turn crack Misty Rainforest, put Breeding Pool into play tapped. 2. When it comes to worrying about damage, just Glimmerpost, Glimmerpost, then/or Vesuva Glimmerpost.
Hello again!
I won a local regular tourney (14 ppl) this Wednesday with pre_Gatecrash build Rock posted here not so long ago.
1 round – Jund
G1 wasn’t really interactive – I dropped lands, he got Bob and shammy, and that was kinda all he did, since he got flooded out of the game. Just Emrakulled him a bit later
G2 was really painfull, he got Hymn-Thoughtseize-Thoughtseize, but since there were nothing in his board I managed to hide titan on top with brainstorm and on T3 I played S&T into titan, which eventually led me to the win.
We played a couple more afterwards and I found, that it is really hard to outcome T1 Shammy into T2 Lilly. It is just way to powerful imo. I mean, it is disrupting your hand alongside having a nice edict effect for something from S&T.
2 round – TES
G1 – nothing special, no reason to even have some hope.
G2 – I had in my sideboard 3xSpell Pierce, 4x Flusterstorm, 3 x Revokers, so I thought I m ready for combo. And I was ready indeed. I kept hand with island/cloudpost/top/fluster/spell pierce/fetch and a titan. After 2-3 turns I was left with nothing to disrupt his comboing due to his cabal Therapy and Inquisition of Kozilek. Nothing except active top and fluster on my topdeck. He tried to combo into something, had 9 spells casted and tried tutor with hellbent, so I just switched top and flustered his tutor for 10, while he had only 9 mana. After that it was pretty easy.
G3 – I kept something like spell pierce/island and 5 other cards. Till turn 4 we were playing land – go (or just draw-go, since he kept a shaky hand) and eventually he combed into 16 gobboes. Which wasn’t scary at all, because I played titan, found glimmerposts and lifegained more he could beat in 2 turns. Emrakul soon finished him.
That was a nice match overall, tense and interesting (to me at least). But it is surely unwinnable without ¾ of sideboard dedicated against combo. Pity I haven’t chalises in this time, but I will take em next time for sure.
3 round – BW with decays and shammys splash into green.
G ½ - nothing serious, tbh. Just dropped lands and played trinkets. He wasted something, discarded a bit, but with candelabra I still was faster to ramp than him to beat me.
4 round – UWb blade.
Like Rock said, UW match is best for this deck – they don’t have anything fast to beat us, we can just drop lands. Even with additional discard package it is still pretty nice.
But…. Yea, well, its magic, we all know it sometimes happens – I got flooded with basics and fetches with big ones on hand till the moment when it was pretty late to do anything in G1.
G2 was decent – I ramped pretty fast and managed to start hardcasting big ones, which he couldn’t beat.
G3 was really stooped imo, because we started it a bit late, and I made a lot of stupid mistakes regarding land count and mana gain, so I wasn’t able to beat him in time of the round and in turns aswell. Maybe it would have been possible if I vesuved his karakas instead of dropping mine to get all additional turns for me with emrakul, but at that time it looked that I will need vesuva into mine cloudpost instead of karakas. Meh.
So 3-0-1 at the end of a day with “1” being almost win.
It is a very nice deck, and I will continue playing it and testing it for sure.
At this very moment I don’t really get what are we doing against wasteland + surgic into cloudpost.
I think that oblivion stones are worse than AiD because we need 8 mana to activate it immediately (and if we don’t we can have it abruptly decayed easily) against 7 mana for AiD.
Cheers!
Love the mini report!
regarding lili/bob, this is where oblivion stone shines, as you can often get to 3->5 mana even when being heavily discarded against.
Yes abrupt decay hits it, but you play a similar mindset against Wasteland. 4 wastes to my 4 crop rotations. This board state is one of the reasons why I have been testing without repeal. This isn't beaten by repeal, but is with a shown-in Titan or o-stone. Needle also doesn't help this board state, since bob will draw them into abrupt decay or vindicate/maelstrom/anything.
Remember thespian's stage can also kill legendary lands if needed.
Just to be clear. The same is true for a Titan fetching Vesuva + Cloudpost. So without any Cloudposts already in play, the Vesuva can't copy the Cloudpost?
Correct. Lots of potential tricks with vesuva and titan's trigger, just don't trick yourself
Hello to all of you, I've been lurking around and I got interested by the list, unfortunatly I doubt I'll ever be able to play just because of Candelabra of Tawnos.
I have a little question for you, do you think Thespian's Stage can be a part of the mana base in the normal UG version (I've seen rock proposing it in the monoG version) and also how does it work with something like glimmerpost, it doesn't make us win life no?)
I'm still going to start buying trading cards for the deck, and see how I can work things out to get those 2 Candelabra of Tawnos ^^
I was wondering your reasoning on the Oracle of Mul Daya's. If you care to explain.
I'm also curious as to why such the drastic change with the printing of Thespian's, could you please explain? I'm really curious, since you took out cards for lands, then added cards for more ramping of lands?
Speaking for myself, Oracle of Mul Daya is, in my opinion, the second best stand-alone ramp card in the game (after Primeval Titan). She does have the drawback of your opponent can reason out your hand and threats or just kill her because she's has low stats, but risk is well worth it... if she lives. Mul Daya shaves lands onto the battlefield so that the player can keep drawing spells and threats. But there is an added advantage with Sensei's Divining Top (and Brainstorm with blue), of being able to control where the lands on the deck wind up. In perfect conditions, lands would never be drawn, just played off the top of the library.
More lands + more ramp = faster curve. But if I had to guess, Rock Lee's trying the new version of the deck not because of Thespian's Stage, but rather the more he plays Oblivion Stone, the more he likes it. It at least makes sense because ramping out a turn 2 Oblivion Stone will stop almost all Turn 3 Kills that rely on non-land permanents when on the play. His latest 15-Post deck looks to be geared towards control through field destruction rather than control through tricks. (Feel free to correct me Rock Lee if I have the wrong idea).
Last edited by Mockingbird; 02-02-2013 at 07:51 PM.
Hi.
Sorry for my english
Today I won the league of my city (34 players) with the Rock Lee's last list with the following minor changes:
2 Thespian's stage
2 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Trinket mage
SIDE:
3 Flusterstorm (I didn't expect storm)
2 Spell pierce
1 Oblivion stone
1 Tabernacle at Pendel valley
2 Cursed totem (Elves & MUD)
1 Krosan grip (MUD, hate enchantments)
2 Venser shaper savant
2 Blue elemental blast (Burn, goblins)
1 Hydroblast
A very quick report
Round 1: GW Zenith 2-0
Round 2: Punishing Zoo 1-2 (In game two, he draws the only wasteland he plays and the only Beast within he plays, surgical extraction on my cloudpost... In game three I keep a very risk hand with mull to 6, 1 land, top, oblivion stone... my mistake for not doing mullingan)
Round 3: Reanimator 2-0
Round 4: Junk 2-0
Round 5: Cascade BUG 2-0
Round 6: Jund ID
1/4 Finals: Jund 2-0
1/2 Finals: Jund 2-1
Final: Esper blade 2-0
The players of this league know the deck and know how to play against.
I need more testing with the list, especially with Explorations. But Thespians's stage has given me a good feeling.
I'm really having a tough time against a turn 2 Liliana. How do we handle that? Especially since we lost our Pithing Needles Main Deck
Technically Pithing Needle is not "lost" from the main deck. If it's important enough, room for Pithing Needle can be discovered or forced back into the deck. Best non-Pithing Needle answer would be to get Primeval Titan or Oblivion Stone/All is Dust to resolve. Primeval Titan changes Liliana's priorities and if you get the right two lands for the situation, you can generally stop caring about your hand. O-Stone and AiD just kill her.
I just did a couple of test games with Rock Lee's latest list versus RUG (preboard) and the list seems quite soft to it. Stifles are amazing versus oblivion stone and its usually a complete blowout when it happens. I was wondering if you had different experiences vs RUG or if you decided to put that matchup on the back burner in favor of the newer dtb's.
Hymn to Tourachs and Thoughseizes combined with Liliana are too tough to handle. Liliana plus Wasteland is so much disruption :( What's our other solutions to this?
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