Baleful Strix seems pretty terrible against P-Fire. Planning on recurring Strix with Ruins against a deck packing 4 Wastelands is a pipe dream. You won't have the mana to do so or they will just waste your Ruins. Either way the advantage created by Strix isn't significant enough to warrant a sideboard slot. Why would you cut a Perish for Strix? Perish has a much higher potential for card advantage and does a lot more in the match ups where you want creature hate.
Strix also doesn't address the fundamental problem against Jund, which is that their deck is really well designed to grind out card advantage. If you want to beat Jund you either look at ways of disrupting their card advantage or creating your own. You want cards that are flexible and can function to stop their engines (Relic, Rest in Peace, Hydroblast, Celestial Purge) or create card advantage for yourself (Souls, Timely Reinforcement, sweepers, planeswalkers).
I would not cut Perish for Strix, I would cut some of the less important sideboard options some lists run, like extra discard or extra spell pierces. They do run 3-4 Wastes, but that is not an argument against running Ruins itself. It happens to be a nice synergy but Strix does not need Ruins to be effective, nor do Ruins only interact with Strix. Strix also plays really nicely against RUG as well, so there's that. However, I find that Esperblade is really favored against Jund anyway, and honestly Perish and Spuls are the best things against them, Strix is just a cool bit of tech that I've found to be decent.Originally Posted by apistat_commander
I personally use 2 copies of Timely Reinforcements and 2 copies of Divert out of my sideboard to combat Jund. I have also added some Glacial Fortress, a Crucible of World and increased my Wasteland count for Punishing Fire and Choke. Here is the Stoneblade list I use after having adapted to Jund and BUG decks:
Creatures (10)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
Instants (18)
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell
Others (9)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Detention Sphere
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Lands (23)
3 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
2 Glacial Fortress
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Tundra
3 Island
1 Plains
Sideboard (15)
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
2 Divert
2 Path to Exile
1 Disenchant
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Rest in Peace
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
For Jund, I do -2 Counterspell/Spell Snare (depends if on play or draw), -2 Pierce, -4 FoW, -1 Sphere for +2 Divert, +2 Path, +2 Timely, 1 Verdict, 1 Disenchant, 1 SoFaF. Divert is great for anything using Hymn and/or Decay
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
I agree Divert/Misdirection is also awesome against Jund, as well as Team America. I can see Timely Reinforcements as a good tool there as well. I still don't like running Wastelands in this deck, but I suppose if you're not splashing black, it may be OK. Hitting Groves can be nice.
I use Timely Reinforcements (for my Miracle Control deck, but same theory applies) against Jund (and pretty much any aggressive-ish deck) and it's absolutely bonkers. The tokens give you outs to Liliana, the 6 life is HUGE in trying to stabilize, and if you Snap it back? DELICIOUS. I've been using Timely Reinforcements as a SB card in pretty much any deck that can support it (Junk, Blade Control, Miracle Control, etc).
I second this. It's extremely good in the Jund matchup and any decks of similar nature.
Also against Jund, Ancestral Vision seems to be a good idea. Fight attrition with attrition. While they will be busy trying to discard your hand and land disrupt you, you just stall until it pays off.
I never had trouble against Jund with the list that won the last GP. Sure, sometimes they go Hymn Hymn and win, or have too many threats to be answered, but most of your board influencing cards generate enough advantage to overhelm them and well, you get to play Brainstorm while Jund doesn't. Unless some nut draws are involved the matchup should be favored for Esper. I don't really see a reason to tweak the deck for that matchup or add weird SB cards ( Timely is ok though ).
The Punishing Fire version eats us though. They sometimes lose for not being able to cast Brainstorm, but once they got the engine active there's no way out.
Humphrey is always correct.
Surgical Extraction / Extirpate effects work well against Punishing Fire.
Grove of the Burnwillows is one of the top reasons why I up'ed the Wasteland count to 3 and threw in Crucible. It just happens to prey upon BUG and RUG as well. As far as losing the black splash, I only really miss it against certain combo decks and in the mirror really. Not going for a black source on turn 1 has been massive against anything packing mana denial. I think what I miss the most is Engineered Plague in the SB.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
I'm aware of that. Problem is that you have to pull the trick early, otherwise they will just dodge it by recurring them.
Humphrey is always correct.
While I still think Esper is superior, I definitly agree that having to get a black source turn one for discard, only to have it wasted, really sucks. I think I am going to put a basic Swamp in, which should help quite a bit. It would also help with Lingering Souls, as I've been wasted off of black mana and unable to flashback many times. I think I'll cut either a Polluted Delta or a Marsh Flats for it, going down to 9 fetches (which I'm fine with).
How has the Crucible and 3 Wastelands been? I really like it on paper.
You can always just do it in response to the trigger, though, which shouldn't be too hard to do. I personally haven't played against Punishing Jund (just traditional Jund, which I obviously don't side in Surgicals for), so I have no idea if it's worth it to side in the Surgicals/Extirpates. I already have trouble trying to side in everything I want (1 Path, 2 Perish, 1 Hydroblast, 1 Disenchant, 1 SoFaF, 2 Baleful Strix) so siding in 3 more cards would be very difficult I think. It could be worth it, but I dunno.
Haven't tested Baleful Strix against Jund yet (my testing partner dismantled Jund and built Junk instead, and I haven't got a chance to proxy it yet), but I did test it against Junk, which it definitly performed well against.
My sideboard at the moment is:
1 Force of Will
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Hydroblast
1 Path to Exile
1 Disenchant
2 Perish
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Baleful Strix
Current Legacy Decks:
BUG Tempo
GB Nic Fit
Merfolk
LED Dredge
Esper Stoneblade
Overall, if I may give my output on this, I found the crucible to be too clunky for the deck, personally, but the wastelands are ok. My take is that you don't actually need all that to beat jund if you understand the matchup well enough, and make sure to survive their unslaught before they get hellbent. So I am kind of on dunkle_stille's side in this.
I can see that. I mean, I don't play the U/W version very often, and I think the Esper list is too tight to fit it. And yea, I just try to keep hands with good amounts of removal and I can do okay against Jund unless they get insane amounts of discard which just kinda rapes me. Either way, I'm okay with the matchup, as consistency is key, and that's one thing that Jund is not. Sideboard Disenchant is good, because a resolved Sylvan Library without a way to get rid of it usually means we lose. Wastelands have been really good overall for me. There are some matchups where I would rather just have colored mana, but it doesn't happen too ofter, as long as I keep hands with a good amount of lands. I don't understand how some people are going down to 22 lands; that just seems absurd to me. I love hands where I have 4 lands, because that means that I'll be able to cast my answers that I draw -- sometimes you just gotta have faith in a good deck.
-Jacob
Current Legacy Decks:
What are people doing for the mirror with UW (red splash)?
I think that's a better matchup for Esper-oriented decks. Solely due to Lingering Souls, that card is just bonkers against Control. I haven't had many problems against them. Try to hold your Stoneforges until later on in the game since most of them pack Spell Snares in the mainboard I think. Basically they can't really do anything progressive with their bombs (planeswalkers) without having to deal with Souls first. Planeswalkers are good, Geists are amazing here as well.
There has been a rise of Sneak Show with sb Leyline of Sanctity in my LGS so my hand disruption and Clique in response to Show and Tell or Sneak Attack has been rendered useless.
Any playing strategies or sb variations advice any one can offer?
for me i think you can sb, peacekeeper and humility if your meta is filled with Show and Tell Variants.
Snap ftw!
I've been wanting to try 4 DRS instead of 4 Snapcasters in my main. Has anyone tried this yet, and if so how has it fared?
note: I use 3 Lili's over JTMS, so they could help me get her out turn 2.
I like venser-karakas against show and tell (especially against the omniscience variants), so you can show and tell venser for ever against what he throws at you. it's harder against sneak attack, but humility is better against it.
I'm finding Show and Tell is not that bad to deal with, but its Sneak Attack, Griselbrand draw 14, drop a lotus petal sac for red, Drop Emrakrul: gg
Game 1 is not a problem with 4 main deck hand disruption and 2 spell pierce, 3 FOW, 1 counter spell, 2 Clique and 1 Karakas. The problem is Game 2 + 3 when Leyline is dropped pre-turn 1 and my hand disruption and cliques strategy are nullified.
My current SB is
1 Duress
1 Humility
2 Path to Exile
1 Extirpate
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Disenchant
1 Spell Pierce
1 Force of Will (3 in the main)
1 Pithing Needle
3 Geist of St. Traft
1 Pithing Needle
I need to have a solid SB against Sneak Show, so I'll take any suggestions. there are 2 actively played at my LGS. I need to board out the hand disruption and potentially the Cliques for games 2 + 3
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