gotcha that makes sense.Originally Posted by Qweerios
Sincerely disagree with this. He applies card advantage but generally to what end? You want to just find a guy to kill jace with.
Primal Hunter makes tokens, and he might draw you into a way to deal with jace, but the reality is if they have any threat at all down he bounces the token and kills primal hunter.
People can swing into his tokens with mediocre goyfs, they can't swing into Relentless tokens since they have deathtouch. Relentless also straight tutors your win conditions at no mana. That is by far the most powerful function a card can have for GB--tutor Grave Titan for free. He's a sac outlet for veterans, and his ultimate is relevant with zombie tokens.
Nic Fit doesn't need a lot of cards, it just needs the right ones, it quite naturally ends up in top-deck mode very quickly and you bank on your top-decks being better than theirs with a top out. Relentless ensures massive, massive card quality.
To be completely honest with you, if your opponent has a threat and a Jace, there isn't much you can do, and there is nothing Relentless can do more than PH on his own in that specific scenario.
As far as CQ vs. CA goes with regards to both Garruks, keep in mind the matchup you want it for. Between drawing 3+ cards and sacrificing a creature to find a card, there is no contest there, take the 3+ cards. If your deck is redundant enough you are more likely to net a piece of removal, two pieces of pressure, or one of each (note that you also draw for that turn so thats 4 cards deep if in topdeck mode) than to have your tutored piece not dealt with. I personally played many variants of Blade Control decks to great success, and I can assure you that UW based control decks are based on 1 for 1 exchange and when you go for CQ, unless it is uncounterable, you won' get very far when your opponent is brainstorming every turn. The only massive thing about Relentless' tutor ability is the amount of setup required to get to that point... Also, let's not forget that Garruk PH's ultimate is a win-con, while Relentless' hardly is.
Don't kid yourself, Nic fit does need a lot of cards, after all, it is a control deck. It may not look like it, but the deck is built on card disadvantage and has to make up for it somehow. The most common ways of doing so is by hitting 2 cards with Therapy and Deeding for 2+ permanents, but there is another way: Top. Top assures CQ because it extend our hand size by 3-6 cards, and CQ is merely another virtual way to offset Nic Fit's built-in CDa.
There is no denying that Relentless is good, it clearly has more synergy with the rest of the deck, but PH is simply stronger, it has more impact. Every card in your deck has a purpose, so think of why you want that card in your deck and how it solves certain issues.
I use 2 Extirpate, 2 Nihil Spellbomb, and I side in most discard spells as well. There isn't much you can do against an Entomb/Reanimation/Counterspell hand if you're on the draw. Just like any combo deck, there is the possibility that they blow you out without fighting back because you don't have FoW in your deck. All I can tell you is don't try to react to a reanimated creature, prevent it from happening. Grisselbrand will not be removed and you won't trump him either. In the past I have played against Reanimator a lot (mainly with BUG Fit variants) and I have won most of my matches. The games I win always go long but one thing is constant throughout the matches, when my opponent manages to reanimate within the first 2 turns, I lose. My bombs always end up in my sideboard and my win-cons consist of Witness and Ooze beatdown. Note that I played Negates at the time and I usualy had 2-3 Lilies and 2-3 Jace as milestones in that matchup (nothing really sticks against a PW).
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
Question for Scapewishers: If I wanted to remove Olivia and the Hellion, what would I replace them with?
I think at Scapewish as a sort of swiss-knife deck with an answer to virtually anything, this is why I temporarily opted to add 1x Acidic Slime for nasty lands. I really hate to lose because of it, even though its rare.
I was also thinking about 1x Dragon Broodmother, what do you guys think about it? I wanted a flying guy to replace Olivia and this one seems to make the job pretty good.
I made the changes just to fill the slots until a better idea comes out, so let me know why do u think Slime is bad in Scapewish and why the Dragon mother is horrible :)
how often should you keep a hand that doens't have either Explorer or Therapy. i find that sometimes my hands have either one or the other or neither.
While I have little experience with the deck, it would seem to me that it is more important to have a Therapy than an Explorer if you only have one, since your deck effectively runs 7-8 Explorers.
Below is the SB ive been running and liking. The 4th REB could be a 3rd Extirpate. I really like extirpate against combo decks, miracles and of course reanimator. With the rebs, discard, and extipates (and reanimate and IB) I dont think ive lose to reanimator in a tourny yet. You can side out some of your HM and thrags, and either combo win, or drop a HM off a GSZ and just win with that in a few turns. Just watch out for their S&T game 2+3 and sometimes game 1, as some people have been maindecking them with DRS being a thing.
SB:
2 Extirpates
4 REB
1 Scapeshift
1 Slaughter games
1 perish
1 pyroclasm
1 reanimate
1 damnation
1 Pulse
1 Innocent blood
1 Thoughtseize
It is very hard to keep up with this thread. You miss one day and your behind like 300 pages lol. I think we need sub threads for the different versions.
But anyway, I think I am going to try a different approach for SB with Rector Fit. NO only really helps me vs 12 post and I am not sure that they will even make an appearance at SCG Cincy. So I am just going to focus on making my combo match up better. I can't even attempt to play against Miracles without Choke, I need to cut down on their Top mana so I'm putting it back in. I seen someone talk about Acidic Slime. How is that working out? I'm thinking of putting some in my SB as a Green Sun target as it gets rid of annoying lands.
Other than that I think I am going to have a full rector SB. Was thinking of adding a 4th Rector also, any thoughts?
Hell yeah! Now all we need is a Scapewish player and we'll have a fairly solid "team" for SCG Cincy 2013.
Anyhow, my list.
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
-
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
-
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Pernicious Deed
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Damnation
-
4 Brainstorm
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Living Wish
1 Diabolic Intent
-
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
=
2 Carpet of Flowers
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Cranial Extraction
1 Memoricide
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Living Wish
1 Angel of Despair
1 Karakas
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Bojuka Bog
Sideboard Strategies--Combo:
TES/Belcher: -1 Thrun, -1 Skull, -2 JMS, -2 Damnation, -1 Ooze, +3 Surgical, +1 Cranial, +1 Memoricide, +2 MBT
Elves!: -1 Thrun, -1 Skull, -2 JMS, -2 Pulse, -1 Ooze, +3 Surgical, +1 Cranial, +1 Memoricide, +2 MBT
Omni/Sneak: -1 Thrun, -1 Skull, -2 JMS, -4 Deed, -1 Ooze, +2 Carpet, +3 Surgical, +1 Cranial, +1 Memoricide, +2 Wish
Reasonings:
-MBT will not stop Elves before they start, but it will stop them before they finish. Either they'll have to stop short and cast Craterhoof Behemoth next turn, provided their Elves don't meet the graveyard, or they'll have to risk casting it into MBT and then lose all of their Elves. Same goes for Belcher going LED+Belcher route, although in this instance, that's the equivalent of MBTing a Storm Spell.
-Wish for Angel/Karakas is my only out against Sneak and Omni, but Wish itself is fairly meh in other matchups, hence the 1 Main 2 Side split.
-The Troll Package (Thrun, Skull, Jace), while hilarious against fair decks, does not do well against combo decks.
-Carpet is not as crucial imo with Miracles dying out.
Honestly.... Advice and tips are good. And i completely agree that this thread is soo weird bc theres 4 versions. But some of us or some ppl need to just go out and test that shit out, im not hating or anything lol im just saying in general because sometimes some things might work for you but not for someone else. Then once you've done that then bring your two cents + evidence and then that will help this 4 version deck grow. Bc I guarantee that everyone here has different experiences with magic and wayy different play styles. Just like last time i posted on here, Arianhood likes the aggro side of the deck and i like the I win scapeshift combo way more.... And rectpr fit, dont get me started but that deck can just become soo broken but based on your on what you like and know how to work around. Im not hating, im just basically saying, go and learn the deck, 100 bucks says you'll find the answer your looking for and you'll bring it back and then nic fit is gonna be DTB.
Remember, it was said when this deck was made, that you basically have to accept losing for a while until you learn this thing in and out.
@ Qweerios I use 2 Extirpate, 2 Nihil Spellbomb, I see SB with nihil spellbomb or Tormods crypt. What is the advantage of spellbomb? The extra card draw. It does cost more mana. Crypt would be on the table faster?
I thought about it but cannot figure it out so I value your opinion.
On another note: because the thread is reaching page 200 soon (great achievement nic fittirs (fitties?) and because there are so many posts. Woul it be an idea just to refer to a post number rather than posting the decklists everytime when we quote a post. This would give us more posts per page which makes it far more easier to view.
Keep on posting.
Currently Playing: Scapefit , Shardless BUG, Team America,
I have had 2 abrupt decays in that slot since I cut bonfire. And it has been awesome. I dont think the deck needs either of those creatures. You can have Sowing Salt in your SB for lands, and at GSZ 6 you always want prime titan.
If you dont already, you should try playing the deck on cockatrice against some of the teir 1 decks. You will see in certain matches you want one of those cards much more than the other. For example, against BUG a resolved explorer is a moat, while against UWx control you dont want to even think about setting off an explorer till you are sure your hand is a lot scarier than theirs.
@Cire_dk
Theres a setting to switch it to 40 posts per page, which is really nice.
@Queerios/kich
Totally Agree with Queerios here. Prime hunter is the way to go in GB. Also something to note, flipped relentless dies to abrupt decay.
kabards' list seems solid, guess this would be my starting point then
If they keep in abrupt decay against this deck by all means.
I'll likely be throwing together my G/B list again (or maybe G/B/w for Sigarda / Sun Titan / Teeg and other white goodies) and do more playtesting with it. I just need to buy a set of Veteran Explorer's again and it's done haha. In my time playing it though, Garruk Relentless was by far the best card in the deck. We have so many saccable targets between Fierce Empath and Dryad Arbor and Explorer's and random tokens, it's just amazing.
hmm either abrupt decays or maelstrom pulses
FWIW when I was playing in an event with GBW i was never able to keep a Relentless on the board against a blue player. it's almost like they were afraid of him.
I actually don't really -like- the aggro plan -- Nic Fit is a true hybrid to me, with control as the central ethic. My playstyle is more like control first, combo deck, aggro third; as far as the various plans go.
But yeah, aside from that, I agree with everything you said =)
The default for those slots is a pair of Abrupt Decays (or 3 Decays if you want to keep it at 61). You're far from locked into that, though, and there's a lot of flexibility to be had. I don't personally favor the Decay plan in Scapewish, but I also haven't found anything better yet in my various testings. There's probably something better, but I don't know what it is at this point.
Carpet isn't just for Miracles, or I'd agree with you. It's also for Esperblade, BUG of any variety, RUG, and blue-based combo. That said, I think that your board is reasonable for SCG Cinci, given what we know now. Keep a very close eye on Edison, though, and I'll try to provide as much meta-based data as I possibly can for you guys -- Edison and Cinci's metas will likely be fairly similar due to their relative closeness geographically. I won't be at Cinci, though =(
On that note, is anyone else here going to Edison?
Also, we're probably hitting 200 today. #Celebration
While I certainly understand why you want Carpet against those decks, what do you board out for it? It's always the hardest to bring in, i find, since you're usually cutting business spells for mana. At least in the Miracles matchup you're making the easy swap of 3 Explorers for 3 Carpet.
I almost always swap 3 for 3, except vs Combo. And vs Combo, you have so many bad cards that it's easy to make the cuts. Like, vs Esperblade, say, I still take out the 3 Explorers. BUG and RUG is a little trickier. If I know that they don't have Stifle, then I'll board out a few Therapies since they basically HAVE to crack my Explorer via combat at some point. If I suspect that they have stifle, though, I usually trim out some of my top-end....like Empath/Yosei/Titan for the 3 Carpets. Depends on what else I'm running in the sideboard and what else I want to board in.
you can also remove grave titan and change it to Garruk Relentless <-- if it flips it becomes tutor, or Garruk Primal Hunter since you were in BG list.kabards' list seems solid, guess this would be my starting point then
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