[Deck] U/R OmniTell

[bfeingersh]

A few notions:

- MD Death Wish gives access to SB bounce, which is a catch-all solution (Ensnaring Bridge, etc.). I like that.

You can already have this if you put eye of nowhere in your wishboard, which nobody seems to remember exists

[BanShowAndTell]

Infinite Wishes
----------------------
4 Show and Tell
4 Dream Halls
4 Omniscience
4 Enter the Infinite
4 Cunning Wish
1 Intuition
1 Trickbind
7 Force of Will/Pact of Negation/Flusterstorm/Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
6-7 Island
0-1 Underground Sea

SB: 1 Intuition (enables Wish to find SnT/Omni, is lethal with Omni)
SB: 1 Firemind's Foresight (Intuition->3x Enter, Trickbind, Brainstorm, costs 1 fewer card, makes Cunning Wish+Dream Halls+2cards lethal)
SB: 1 Trickbind (makes Wish counter ETB effects like DSphere/ORing/Pridemage)
SB: 1 Wipe Away (answers random stuff, gets sided in with Slaughter Pact left in the board)
SB: 1 Cryptic Command (answers random stuff when sided in while not costing 3, generic good card postboard)
SB: 1 Slaughter Pact (cheapest removal for hatebears like Teeg/Thalia/Canonist)
SB: 1 Research / Development (most efficient win condition Wish->Research->Enter->Lab Man+Brainstorm)
SB: 1 Laboratory Maniac (most efficient (hardest to hate, fewest slots) win conditon)

Count Depends on Maindeck Configuration:
-------------------------------------------
SB: Force of Will (4 in the 75)
SB: Pact of Negation (3-4 in the 75, most efficient counter)
SB: Flusterstorm (arguable over Pact due to passable vs control and excellent vs combo pseudo-mirror)
SB: Thoughtseize (takes all things you care about, Force+Seize is excellent disruption in the combo mirror, requires Underground Sea; my choice as extra non-Force/Pact disruption in the sb)

Random Utility
------------------------------
SB: Surgical Extraction (good vs dredge (therapy), tinfins, reanimator, situationally awesome vs control)
SB: Ravenous Trap (specific dredge hate)
SB: Echoing Truth (can be sided in place of Trickbind to keep Wish->FF open, generic answer)

Powerful Sideboard Options
---------------------------------
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void (TinFins, All Spells, Dredge, Reanimator (might want a 2nd Sea to cast it))
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity (Storm, Jund, Esperblade, Burn)
SB: 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn (alt win to be sided in so Wish->Research->Lab Man stays in the board), good vs CB @ 3)

No Lotus Petal? Makes you less consistent. Need to hit 5 lands sometimes to cast Dream Halls. less than 19 lands is certainly wrong for this reason. 19 is minimum. 20 might be better.

No Personal Tutor? SnT isn't the only way for this deck to win. Dream Halls can also cheat Omni and Dream Halls alone is enough to win with Wish, Intuition, or Enter. This is an Enter deck, not an Omni deck.

No Emrakuls? This deck has no vulnerability to creature removal. SnT->Emrakul isn't convincing enough to open yourself up to hate. Same for Grisel, although Grisel could see play as anti-SnT hate card since it's generically good if you have nothing else and Grisel is the best card to SnT into play off opponent's SnT).

Few Intuitions? Card is a liability postboard if you don't already have Omni/Dream Halls in play.

4 Cunning Wish - card is Enter 5-8 when you want to win, anti-hate for only efficient SnT hate (oring effects), protection, utility, and an elegant win condition. Play 5 if you can swing it.

No Burning Wish - card is trash. Look at Cunning Wish. Now imagine the card makes you play fewer copies of SnT, Enter the Infinite, worse protection, and forces a worse manabase. No thanks.

Why play this over Reanimator? More resilient. Loses to fewer hate cards. Can play similar disruption. Wins when it goes off.

Why play this over Sneak and Show? More consistent. Loses to fewer hate cards. Better manabase. Wins when it goes off.

Why play this over other Omni decks? Have you seen the other omni decks? They're barely playable.

The matchups can swing based on how you configure the maindeck. You should be working on a mix of the following disruption in your 75:

4 Force of Will
3+ Thoughtseize
1+ Flusterstorm
1+ Pact of Negation

Play 4 Force of Will. If you're trying to hedge more against control decks, you probably want the 4th wishable. If you want more game vs fast combo, you might still want it in the sb, but replace Pact with Thoughtseize or Flusterstorm.
Pact is better vs actual control decks. Significantly worse vs other combo decks. Not terribly good vs anything but control.
Flusterstorm is passable vs discard, okay vs control, excellent vs other combo. Has limited value vs non-control fair decks, but not usually 100% dead.
Thoughtseize is solid vs everything. Some decks are very weak to it, like UW and other combo decks. It's passable but not amazing vs RUG, UWR, Esper. If you want to play 4, you probably want to fit in a 2nd Sea or a Swamp somewhere to make it suck less vs Wasteland Blue (play 4 Delta than). It's good vs hatebears. 2 Life can sometimes be a drag, but hitting VClique, Snapcaster, Teeg, Emrakul, and Grisel is worth it in various matchups. Most pressing is that 2nd black source would be required to play it maindeck and it introduces more pressure on a pristine manabase.

I've found Esper and Team America to be the harder matchups. Discard plus countermagic is rough. white leyline or more flusterstorm helps. Pact and Seize are at their worst against blue decks here.

UW is actually pretty easy since they have limited countermagic, CB largely doesn't matter ince you can resolve Enter then ignore it, and you can answer their permanents with just finding your trickbind or a wish.

RUG has been favorable in most configurations. You don't want all of your Thoughtseize, even though it's a fine card, since losing 4 life is sometimes enough for them to race. You can't lose games they don't flip a quick delver. Most of their soft counters are dead against you.

Reanimator is rough with Pacts main, but can get better if you have Flusterstorms or sb yard hate. Unfavorable preboard most of the time, but if they durdle you can destroy them. Thoughtseize is excellent here.

SnT mirror is generally pretty good. You kill them if they drop Emrakul and can sometimes kill them through Grisel by virtue of Trickbind/Wish limiting them to, at most, 7 cards (sometimes 0) and playing more hard counters. Daze/Spell Pierce are pretty bad against you. Dream Halls is functionally identical to Sneak Attack, except your deck isn't filled with awkward dudes. You'd rather go longer where you can cast Pacts and then pay for them and just hardcast Dream Halls with mana up for their soft counters. This avoids the awkward situation of an opponent dropping Grisel off your SnT and hitting the 50-60% chance of drawing enough hard counters.

Storm is much like reanimator. You can kill them from turn 2, and your matchup will be determined by how you configure the disruption in your 75. The ANT builds are hosed by white leyline preventing them from targeting you with discard. TES builds and Doomsday builds are more resilient due to Silence. Thoughtseize is excellent here.

Maverick is generally favorable. You can actually combo through Thalia and your manabase is good. They can put up a lot of quick pressure, and you need either Force or Wish->Pact to handle Teeg.

Jund has some discard, is cold to white leyline, and in general has a hard time beating your massively redundant, cantrip-backed combo with good mana. Shardless BUG is similar, but they might have Force of Will. Nic Fit is like Jund, but might combo kill you. They might also durdle while giving you free islands....

http://pastebin.com/brbzkExU

[Lemnear]

Cunning Wish vs. Burning Wish: lol ... seriously ... lol ... Burning Wish gives you additional 3 copies of S&T, Access to Enter the Infinite out of the SB instead of Running more bricks maindeck. 4 EtI maindeck is a crutch

Since then is Emrakul vulnerable to Legacy's creature removal, unless you have the rare misfortune to face a Oblivion Ring joining Emrakul off your S&T? Emrakul via Omniscience is a 100% win. You neither seem to have a clue why Griselbrand made it into this Deck and Legacy overall either.

Your analysis of strength/weakness is flawed. This Deck bricks like hell off the EtI and Dream Hall with only 4 tombs to accelerate the later. Cunning wish does neither help protecting anything nor helps your gameplan (Cryptic command?! A 7 mana Solution via wish->command is that you call "playing Legacy"?), Dream Halls is no Solution to the current Form of Defense in Legacy atm which combines discard & tax-Counters. Those would tear such a slow Deck like the suggested appart in no time. The thing you ignore about reanimator and Sneak&Show is that they trade their invulnerablility to Wasteland against raw speed. You can't come up and call this strategy inferior in a Tempo orientated metagame. If you think Omni-Tell is "barely playable" despite showing T8 performances, I think you should adjust your perception.

In Case you feel there ARE significant weaknesses in the concept, I give you a hint: they have nothing to do with the spells you cast AFTER Omniscience enters the game.


Edit: Another hint - Griselbrand does nearly the same as enter the infinite but being a permament for Show&Tell

[Karhumies]

In Case you feel there ARE significant weaknesses in the concept, I give you a hint: they have nothing to do with the spells you cast AFTER Omniscience enters the game.

This.

In my opinion, the biggest problem we currently have is that any clock - no matter how slow or bad - will get the opponent there, as long as they can hold off our SnT simultaneously. When playing against an opponent who after landing 1 permanent with a power value begins filtering in my EOT to stock up on tax counters so he has 2-3 of them ready for every SnT attempt I make (and ignores countering any other spells we have)...that's difficult to punch through. There are many different decks including U which could be piloted like that. If we're fortunate, the opponent will not play with such an optimal strategy vs us, but if we're not... :-/

[georgjorge]

This.

In my opinion, the biggest problem we currently have is that any clock - no matter how slow or bad - will get the opponent there, as long as they can hold off our SnT simultaneously. When playing against an opponent who after landing 1 permanent with a power value begins filtering in my EOT to stock up on tax counters so he has 2-3 of them ready for every SnT attempt I make (and ignores countering any other spells we have)...that's difficult to punch through. There are many different decks including U which could be piloted like that. If we're fortunate, the opponent will not play with such an optimal strategy vs us, but if we're not... :-/

I think it's not that bad, though decks like RUG Delver are by no means an easy matchup. Remember that those decks only play four hard counters pre-board, and their taxing counters get worse every turn as long as you drop (Sol-)lands. Picking the right time to play Show and Tell - usually shortly before you would die to their clock - is key. Sure, if they have one Delver, two lands, and the rest Forces and Spell Pierces, they'll win, but they don't get to sculpt perfect hands every game, and every additional creature or removal they have is a bit like a lost card for them.

I board in Boseiju there - they play Wastelands, but Boseiju makes them HAVE to have it or likely lose. Not sure if Grid is better or not.

For me, the most problematic decks are those with both discard + counterspells, since discard doesn't lose value like taxing counters do, and I'm often torn between siding in Leyline, Boseiju, or neither (because they don't run enough of either category to justify the boarding but enough of both to cause problems). Oh, and of course those runnign + protecting Meddling Mages.

[Koby]

I played the UR OmniShow yesterday to less than spectacular results; likely due to a high presence of discard strategies.

Burning Wish -> Enter the Infinite was pretty dirty, and I commented how Griselbrand, Omniscience, and Enter the Infinite were all printed with the last 12 months to make this happen. Sad sad world R&D has created.

Anyways, lost a pair of matches because of numerous mulls to 5 trying to find an Island. Kept a respectable 6 non-land hand with Misdirection, Fow, Bwish, Omni, Ponder, Brainstorm - but my opponent went: Duress, Thoughtseize, Hymn, BBE->Hymn, Liliana off the top of his deck, and I did not find a land at all. Ended up losing to TES, Jund, and a rogue UB Delver/discard deck in the final round after I was already out of contention for prizes.

[Esper3k]

As much as I like the Omniscience decks since they just kill your opponent immediately without using the attack step, I don't see them as being more consistent than the Sneaky Show decks.

Sneaky Show usually only has to assemble 2 cards and has 8 copies of each.

Omniscience decks almost always have to assemble 3 cards, increasing the time it takes to find your combo pieces as well as making you even more vulnerable to hand disruption.

[lochlan]

Omniscience decks almost always have to assemble 3 cards, increasing the time it takes to find your combo pieces as well as making you even more vulnerable to hand disruption.

To be fair, you can Show and Tell Omniscience into play and just let it sit there without much risk versus most decks.

[Lemnear]

I think it's not that bad, though decks like RUG Delver are by no means an easy matchup. Remember that those decks only play four hard counters pre-board, and their taxing counters get worse every turn as long as you drop (Sol-)lands. Picking the right time to play Show and Tell - usually shortly before you would die to their clock - is key. Sure, if they have one Delver, two lands, and the rest Forces and Spell Pierces, they'll win, but they don't get to sculpt perfect hands every game, and every additional creature or removal they have is a bit like a lost card for them.

RUG's creatures and Removal aka Burn increases their clock significantly. They are NOT deaddraws like you imply. The Solution to Taxing Counters and discard sure aren't reducing the mana acceleration + playing 5cc enchantments

[PartyMonster]

This.

In my opinion, the biggest problem we currently have is that any clock - no matter how slow or bad - will get the opponent there, as long as they can hold off our SnT simultaneously. When playing against an opponent who after landing 1 permanent with a power value begins filtering in my EOT to stock up on tax counters so he has 2-3 of them ready for every SnT attempt I make (and ignores countering any other spells we have)...that's difficult to punch through. There are many different decks including U which could be piloted like that. If we're fortunate, the opponent will not play with such an optimal strategy vs us, but if we're not... :-/

The U/B list is good at applying pressure. Burning wish may be able to reach outside of the deck but lim duls vault can find whatever missing combo piece you need. Thoughtsieze FOW back up is pretty solid on beating hate and counters at the same time.

Artifact
2xLotus Petal

Enchantment
4xOmniscience

Instant
4xBrainstorm
2xDaze
4xForce of Will
1xIntuition
2xLim-Dul's Vault
1xMisdirection
1xSpell Pierce

Creature
2xEmrakul, the Aeons Torn
2xGriselbrand


Sorcery
1xDeath Wish
1xDuress
2xPersonal Tutor
4xPonder
1xPreordain
4xShow and Tell
4xThoughtseize

Land
2xAncient Tomb
1xBoseiju, Who Shelters ..
3xIsland
4xMisty Rainforest
4xPolluted Delta
1xSwamp
2xUnderground Sea
1xVerdant Catacombs

Sideboard (15 cards)

Artifact
4xGrafdigger's Cage
1xPithing Needle

Instant
3xEchoing Truth
2xFlusterstorm
2xSpell Pierce

Creature
1xUlamog, the Infinite G..

Sorcery
1xEnter the Infinite
1xInquisition of Kozilek

[bfeingersh]

Side note that I'm sure you're aware of, but that list is 100% cold to surgical on show and tell, you may want to consider putting a S&T in the board.

[PartyMonster]

Side note that I'm sure you're aware of, but that list is 100% cold to surgical on show and tell, you may want to consider putting a S&T in the board.

That is true, But it almost the only downside and it really hasn't been that big of a deal. Just consciously play around the surgical extraction, try to keep from using intuition to find S&T, make them discard there surgical and keep your show and tells out of the graveyard and your fine. My concern with surgical extraction is mainly trying to dodge the shuffle effect, and even then it isn't game over. Also its really nice to have four actual copys of S&T in the main deck for consistency, and it makes Lim-duls vault for it less painful considering it is the most common target.

[bfeingersh]

So what happens when you're on the draw and they t1 thoughtseize surgical you?

[Esper3k]

To be fair, you can Show and Tell Omniscience into play and just let it sit there without much risk versus most decks.

Sure, but you still need to find EtI (ie, still need a third card) to win. Usually it's not the mana to cast cantrips that stops us, it's not finding the card itself after running out of cantrips.

Needing 3 cards to win < consistent than needing 2 cards to win and increases your vulnerability to hand disruption.

Again, I like the Omniscience kill because I like getting around the attack step and things like Ensnaring Bridges / Humility, etc. but I also recognize that it's not as consistent as the Sneaky Show plan.

[PartyMonster]

So what happens when you're on the draw and they t1 thoughtseize surgical you?

force of will, misdirection., not having S&T in your opening hand game two. winning game one and being on the play game three. I understand the concern but I have been playing the deck in real life for the last 6 months and it has only come up once to losing a game in a match like that and I still won the match. Also with out Burning wish a show and tell in the sideboard isn't going to get you very far in the consistency department.

[downtoonelife]

I won a 4 round tournament last Sunday. Played against (R1 1-2) Pox, (R2 2-0) Zomvines, (R3 2-1) Jund and (R4 2-0) Esperblade.

To be fair, you can Show and Tell Omniscience into play and just let it sit there without much risk versus most decks.

I've done this against my match-up with Pox, Jund and Esperblade. My Pox opponent even had ultimate his Liliana of the Veil leaving me with only Omniscience in play and still won (well, since I get to cast spells for free). However, on our 3rd game I lost the match because I was not aware that I still have to pay 3 mana with Trinisphere and Omniscience in play. I was supposed to combo off with Snt+Omni and holding a Burning Wish. With Jund I dropped Omniscience and cantrip for my win. With Esperblade game 1 I dropped Griselbrand and drawn 14 cards ftw. Game 2 I dropped Omniscience and cantrip for my win.

I also playtested some matches against American Delver. I lost twice only and probably won 5-6 games against it with sideboarding.

[georgjorge]

As much as I like the Omniscience decks since they just kill your opponent immediately without using the attack step, I don't see them as being more consistent than the Sneaky Show decks.

Sneaky Show usually only has to assemble 2 cards and has 8 copies of each.

Omniscience decks almost always have to assemble 3 cards, increasing the time it takes to find your combo pieces as well as making you even more vulnerable to hand disruption.

As I said before, a good number of decks have massive problems against a turn three Griselbrand (which I run as a four-of) or Emrakul (two-of), so it's not as if you HAVE to go for Omni to win a game. It's just another option for when you suspect those cards wouldn't be enough, either because of specific hate (Karakas, Stingscourger, Humility, Liliana...) or because you would still face lethal damage. Which is why I see Omni as not much less consistent than Sneak Show unless you play it as if you have to kill your opponent on the spot once you play Show and Tell.

[Esper3k]

As I said before, a good number of decks have massive problems against a turn three Griselbrand (which I run as a four-of) or Emrakul (two-of), so it's not as if you HAVE to go for Omni to win a game. It's just another option for when you suspect those cards wouldn't be enough, either because of specific hate (Karakas, Stingscourger, Humility, Liliana...) or because you would still face lethal damage. Which is why I see Omni as not much less consistent than Sneak Show unless you play it as if you have to kill your opponent on the spot once you play Show and Tell.

Except to get the two-card combo for Omniscience decks, you really only have 4x Show & Tell as one half of the combo. Sneaky Show decks have double the enablers, thus more consistency.

Again, as I've posted above, I prefer the Omni-Tell decks more, but I do recognize they tend to be slower and have less consistency than the Sneaky Show decks.

[bfeingersh]

force of will, misdirection., not having S&T in your opening hand game two. winning game one and being on the play game three. I understand the concern but I have been playing the deck in real life for the last 6 months and it has only come up once to losing a game in a match like that and I still won the match. Also with out Burning wish a show and tell in the sideboard isn't going to get you very far in the consistency department.

Obviously you can counter some part of their opening draw, but you're using "not having combo pieces in hand" as an argument? That's usually the opposite of the metrics I use when evaluating an opening hand. Also, one of your reasons is "resign the game and try again". I don't like where that's going. If I wanted to play a deck that folded up at the first sign of an opponent's interaction, I'd sleeve up some charbelchers.

And that's cool you've been playing the deck for 6 months, that doesn't make anyone's opinion less valid than your own. I've been playing S&T decks for over 2 years, and there have been people who have been playing them for 15.

Also, I'm just curious about how effective Death Wish has been for you, since it's another 3cc sorcery, but I'd guess probably deals you on average between 7 and 10 damage any game. Does that cause any problems once Griselbrand is in play? Or against RUG, who probably just takes their free Lava Axes and kills you on their turn?

[PartyMonster]

Obviously you can counter some part of their opening draw, but you're using "not having combo pieces in hand" as an argument? That's usually the opposite of the metrics I use when evaluating an opening hand. Also, one of your reasons is "resign the game and try again". I don't like where that's going. If I wanted to play a deck that folded up at the first sign of an opponent's interaction, I'd sleeve up some charbelchers.

And that's cool you've been playing the deck for 6 months, that doesn't make anyone's opinion less valid than your own. I've been playing S&T decks for over 2 years, and there have been people who have been playing them for 15.

Also, I'm just curious about how effective Death Wish has been for you, since it's another 3cc sorcery, but I'd guess probably deals you on average between 7 and 10 damage any game. Does that cause any problems once Griselbrand is in play? Or against RUG, who probably just takes their free Lava Axes and kills you on their turn?

jeez, Thanks for getting off of your high horse and giving the list some open minded consideration.

I wasn't defending the idea of not wanting show and tell in your opening hand, But realistically it just isn't in every open hand. I wish that In U/B you could stick S&T in the board. If you can think of a way to do it please let me know, I would sincerely be interested.

Death Wish sucks. Its terrible. But it does the job. Against RUG you board it out and just put eti. There is no reason to activate griselbrands ability after you use death wish to ETI. The Duress effects keep the opponent of off the ensnaring bridge/ humility. If you need to DW for Ulamog as a catch all its never to hard to find either with gris or just cantrips and tutors.

The list is consistent, it has diversified disruption and is still only two colors. The B/R list has just as many if not more holes in its list. Three colors is to open to wasteland and to diluted to have force of will online as much as it needs to be. The mono Blue dream halls list is cool but I feel like its plan doesn't hold much water with TES and ANT on the rise.