[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[Koby]

@AncientOne
Thanks for the length report. It's very useful in determining the next steps for development of the deck. I'm going to test some ideas out this weekend and hope to have a good report to share come Monday or Tuesday.

[Vad_]

I know this card has been rejected before and i don't remember why, but since some people have come to test teferi's realm which cost 3 and seems happy about it, what about City of Solitude ?

[.dk]

@AncientOne - Awesome report! Thanks for the detail as well. While I'm personally a bit confused by the 3 Brainstorm, I can certainly appreciate wanting to try new concepts. I think your points about 3 Griselbrands are good ones, and I can certainly see that perspective. Need to experiment more - if I only had more time and opportunity to play Legacy...

@Vad_ - I've tested City of Solitude a lot. It's a house against Tempo Decks, but doesn't really do anything against decks like Miracles. And that is really the where the difference with the mana costs comes into play as well. Against a deck like Miracles, they aren't putting quick pressure on you - so you can actually afford to wait and play Teferi's Realm later. Against Tempo, however, waiting to be able to land a 3 drop and then go off the follow turn pretty much spells disaster. They are going to be putting too much pressure on you to be able to wait that long and you'll be dead, or at such a low life total that you won't be able to draw much off of Griselbrand.

[phazonmutant]

I know this card has been rejected before and i don't remember why, but since some people have come to test teferi's realm which cost 3 and seems happy about it, what about City of Solitude ?

The only appeal of T-Money's Realm (bling bling) is that it deals with hatebears and enchantments. City of Solitude is fine, but doesn't really deal with a smart counterbalance player or with Rest in Peace. But, it's definitely not clear if one is for sure better than the other or if either are good at all.

[AncientOne]

This has been spoiled on MTGSalvation.com as a new common from Dragon's Maze:

Crypt Incursion 2B
Instant
Exile all creature cards from target player's graveyard. You gain 3 life for each card exiled each way
Common

Could be bad for TinFins since it doesn't target... Luckily it cost 3 mana...
It might even turn out to be a good card for TinFins, since it kills Dredge, making Dredge less played, making people board less graveyard hate, making TinFins a better deck choice... (?)

[phazonmutant]

It costs 3, won't see play. Move along.

[Mortox]

It costs 3, won't see play. Move along.

Ya sure, you'll be sitting there one day, ready to combo off, opponent has just one black mana open, odd you think that he didn't play anything. You cast Entomb, bin a Griselbrand, cast that faithful Shallow Grave when the opponent responds by turning his Swamp sideways, followed by a Dark Ritual, you start to sweat, what could it be? Dun, dun, dunnnn Crypt Incursion to seal the deal. Won't see play you said, move along you said!

[Koby]

3 mana Black instant graveyard hate just does not cut it in Legacy when both Surgical Extraction and Extirpate exist.

I've been having some trouble against the Jund/BUG decks that feature DRS and Hymn. Those punish mediocre hands so bad.

[GiveMeYourOil]

It costs 3, won't see play. Move along.

I second that.

[warfordium]

will write more tomorrow/Tuesday—just got back from America. 7-2'd SCG Seattle with

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=55307

and only lost to 2 MD chalice decks (metalworker and junk-depths-loam-living wish). beat RUG, Goblins x 2, Enchantress, Affinity, the near-mirror, Death and Taxes. this deck is innnnn-sane.

[Cacks]

Congrats warfordium! Looking forwards to a report.

[Dick_Tator]

I went 4-1-1 at my local 38-player tournament tonight, which landed me in top-4.

I played the following list, which I believe is almost identical to the last one Koby posted:

Main:

4 Entomb
4 Shallow Grave
3 Goryo's Vengeance
1 Reanimate

2 Griselbrand
1 Emrakul
1 Children of Korlis
1 Tendrils of Agony

4 Dark Ritual
4 Lotus Petal
1 Chrome Mox

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Lim-Dul's Vault

4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
1 Silence

6 black fetches
2 Underground Sea
2 Scrubland
1 Tundra
1 Bayou
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Swamp

Board:

2 Reverent Silence
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Massacre
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Silence
2 Pithing Needle
3 Surgical Extraction

My matches:

Round 1 vs Belcher 1-2. He won the die roll. Enough said. Board: -3 x Gitaxian Probe. + 2 x Silence, + 1 x Pithing Needle

Round 2 vs Mono-Blue Stasis. 2-0. Both games were pretty grindy, but I managed to fight through his counterspells with discard and Silence. Lim-Dûl's Vault was an all star in both games, drawing me the fuel that I needed. Board: -3 x Gitaxian Probe, -1 x Reanimate, + 2 x Silence, 2 x Chain of Vapor

Round 3 vs RUG Delver. 2-1. I killed him in turn 1 in the first game, lost the second game, then managed to win a long and grindy third game by discarding all of his countermagic. It should be mentioned that he never saw any of his graveyard hate, which undeniably made things a bit easier for me. Board: -3 x Gitaxian Probe, -1 x Thoughtseize, + 2 x Silence, + 2 x Chain of Vapor

Round 4 vs U/W/G Delver. 2-0. Game 1 he kept a weak hand and I steamrolled over him. On the play in game 2 he kept a hand with both Deathrite and Daze, but I drew a great hand and was able to force him to use his Daze on my Thoughtseize before going off and killing him on turn 1. Board: -3 x Gitaxian Probe, -1 x Reanimate, + 2 x Silence, + 2 x Chain of Vapor

Round 5 vs Nic/Fit. 2-0. I knew my oppenent's decklist in advance, so I knew that he did not play any graveyard hate, counterspells or the like main. I kept my opening seven, and he just sighed as I comboed off and killed him. Game two he Duressed my only reanimationspell, but I topdecked a Shallow Grave like a champ and went on to win the game within two more turns. Board: -3 x Gitaxian Probe, -1 x Reanimate, + 2 xAbrupt Decay, + 2 x Chain of Vapor

Round 6 vs Goblins (2-0). We agreed to draw the match, as this would secure prizes for us both. However, we did play for fun, and I thoroughly thrashed him, both pre and post-sideboard. Board: -3 x Gitaxian Probe, -1 x Reanimate, + 2 xAbrupt Decay, + 2 x Chain of Vapor

Comments:

The deck still feels very powerful. The addition of Lim-Dûls Vault definitely makes the deck more consistent and enables us to dig more effectively for the answers we need. It certainly got me out of some tight sports tonight, and never once did I draw an LDV and wish that it had been an Intuition. My sideboard feels pretty solid, I still like the green splash, even if I did not really need any of the green cards in tonight's tournament.

[phazonmutant]

The list looks solid. Congrats on the victory!

[Cacks]

@Dick_Tator. Congrats! One question - were there any situations where you used the tendrils kill where going infinite with Emrakul and just attacking in your extra turn(s) would not have also been viable? The only common one I can think of is pre-board ensnaring bridge or solitary confinement (since post board you can go infinite, and chain of vapor it - even if they bounce something by saccing a land, you can just recast it)? Thanks

[Richard Cheese]

will write more tomorrow/Tuesday—just got back from America. 7-2'd SCG Seattle with

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=55307

and only lost to 2 MD chalice decks (metalworker and junk-depths-loam-living wish). beat RUG, Goblins x 2, Enchantress, Affinity, the near-mirror, Death and Taxes. this deck is innnnn-sane.

I really like this list. If our local meta stops being 80% combo, I'd love to cut the maindeck Silences for something with a bit more utility.

[Moomba]

I really enjoy the 2 pacts of negation I run main deck, and out the silences side board. Having so much discard and probes, you know of you're going to only need 1 form of disruption to win the game and not rely on wasting mana you may need later.

[Koby]

I really enjoy the 2 pacts of negation I run main deck, and out the silences side board. Having so much discard and probes, you know of you're going to only need 1 form of disruption to win the game and not rely on wasting mana you may need later.

Can you elaborate, maybe provide your list?
My concern is that you cannot be proactive enough if those Pacts are replacing discard spells. The latter can function as ways to put Griselbrand into the graveyard, which Pacts cannot.

[Moomba]

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tin-fins-15-04-13-1/ is my current list. Enjoying the list for the most part still trying to find the room for LDV or two.

[Mortox]

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tin-fins-15-04-13-1/ is my current list. Enjoying the list for the most part still trying to find the room for LDV or two.

I'm basically running the same list except for a Silence in place of the 2nd Children, and 2 LDVs in place of those Pact of Negations; how are those working out for you btw? I haven't seen them in many lists; occasionally I'll try to go for the kill but the deck won't cooperate and I'll be forced to pass turn with a well-sculpted grip to kill them the following turn, but I'd hate to be forced to cast Negation in those types of situations and find out I can't actually seal the deal. Has that been a problem or do you feel they win you more games than they cost you?

Also I recently swapped out the Tundra for a basic Island, I felt the deck was way too weak against opponents aggressively using their Wastelands, far too often I was getting screwed out of blue mana and unable to reliably cast back-to-back ponders or brainstorms which I felt was costing me games. I think the white splash in the deck is so minimal (only running 1 Children and 1 Silence MD) that I can rely on the Scrubland and Petals to cast those couple spells, occasionally I've even Chrome Mox'd the Silence to cast the Children which is fine once you're comboing out.

[Moomba]

I'm basically running the same list except for a Silence in place of the 2nd Children, and 2 LDVs in place of those Pact of Negations; how are those working out for you btw? I haven't seen them in many lists; occasionally I'll try to go for the kill but the deck won't cooperate and I'll be forced to pass turn with a well-sculpted grip to kill them the following turn, but I'd hate to be forced to cast Negation in those types of situations and find out I can't actually seal the deal. Has that been a problem or do you feel they win you more games than they cost you?

Also I recently swapped out the Tundra for a basic Island, I felt the deck was way too weak against opponents aggressively using their Wastelands, far too often I was getting screwed out of blue mana and unable to reliably cast back-to-back ponders or brainstorms which I felt was costing me games. I think the white splash in the deck is so minimal (only running 1 Children and 1 Silence MD) that I can rely on the Scrubland and Petals to cast those couple spells, occasionally I've even Chrome Mox'd the Silence to cast the Children which is fine once you're comboing out.

With the 4 cabal's 2 thoughtseize 4 probes, I can usually see what threats they have that I have to be worried about. Sometimes early game I really need that extra mana source that would be spent on silence or another spell and the free pact is nice. I have found it extremely rare to fizzle the combo with this deck so not too worried about paying the upkeep.

I think I may change one of my children to a LDV as well as the tundra to the island since an early wasteland can really throw a wrench in your combo.