[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

[Maximus]

I spend more time playing to learn over playing to win, so I'm actually starting on the 2011 version of the deck with 2 grim tutor over any of the more modern variations. I do plan to try all of them eventually. I love the Burning Wishes in Doomsday but I have mixed feelings about them for this deck. I'll probably lurk this thread for a while to see what I can learn on my own.

[Varal]

Lately, I've seen many lists playing Sensei's Divining Top either maindeck or in the sideboard. I assume they're useful against discard spells and can be used as pseudo Brainstorm with fetchlands. Does anyone knows when they should be sideboarded in, how to use them and how well they perform?

[Lemnear]

Lately, I've seen many lists playing Sensei's Divining Top either maindeck or in the sideboard. I assume they're useful against discard spells and can be used as pseudo Brainstorm with fetchlands. Does anyone knows when they should be sideboarded in, how to use them and how well they perform?

I doubt SDT is better than Confidant against discard

[Patrunkenphat7]

I have found that Dark Confidant is simply not good like it used to be. The "slow" decks or the midrange discard decks put on way too much pressure for Bobby to be good, and cards like Liliana of the Veil and Jace are huge problems for the Bob strategy.

I think it's interesting that many people on this thread are still on "Prosak Storm." Ad Nauseam is pretty poor in this deck (Prosak has even said that he usually only casts it once per tournament), and Grim Tutor is still a great tutor that everyone seems to have forgotten about. Try playing Empty the Warrens over Ad Nauseam and add 2 Grim Tutor to the deck. You will win many more games, and the deck will have more options and consistency.

[Tammit67]

Lately, I've seen many lists playing Sensei's Divining Top either maindeck or in the sideboard. I assume they're useful against discard spells and can be used as pseudo Brainstorm with fetchlands. Does anyone knows when they should be sideboarded in, how to use them and how well they perform?

It comes in against the decks you want ignorant bliss for: hymn to tourachs/liliana out of jund or other decks with a lot of discard but not much else. Float your tutor on top and play out all artifact mana until you can go get past in flames. They work ok, but not great. Haven't been immensely satisfied with either top, ignorant bliss, or dark confidant. You can get away with smart cantripping in these matchups though and I consider these cards a luxury. Confidant sucks against jund, but pretty decent against control where applicable

[End3r000]

Number one thing I sideboard out is Ad Nauseam and the Chrome Mox. Course no one agrees with the list I run so I'll continue to not contribute.

[phazonmutant]

I think it's interesting that many people on this thread are still on "Prosak Storm." Ad Nauseam is pretty poor in this deck (Prosak has even said that he usually only casts it once per tournament), and Grim Tutor is still a great tutor that everyone seems to have forgotten about. Try playing Empty the Warrens over Ad Nauseam and add 2 Grim Tutor to the deck. You will win many more games, and the deck will have more options and consistency.

That's a different deck. There doesn't seem to be a thread for it on the source, but on the storm boards it's called "Grinding Station". It's an awesome, underplayed deck that I think could be every bit as good as ANT and harkens back to old Iggy Pop decks. The only list I've found on The Source is a pimp thread post: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post711134
If you're not all-in on making Ad Nauseam the best it can be, I agree it makes sense to cut it. But if you do, you want to play a shit tonne of Past in Flames and Tendrils and your U opponents are just kinda stuck wondering what to do.

[Asgar]

I'Ve found an old tournament Report from April '12 by the German inventor. I know the Deck changed over the Time (Running a few infernals main as i remember), but its Good to get an idea of the Artist formaly known as Land-go-Tendrils:
http://theweeklywars.wordpress.com/2...nding-station/


By the Way: if you can't afford a grim Tutor but want the Luxors of anothe Business-spell an Empty the warrens Main is the best Alternative in my opinion :)

[Mindlash]

That's a different deck. There doesn't seem to be a thread for it on the source, but on the storm boards it's called "Grinding Station". It's an awesome, underplayed deck that I think could be every bit as good as ANT and harkens back to old Iggy Pop decks. The only list I've found on The Source is a pimp thread post: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post711134
If you're not all-in on making Ad Nauseam the best it can be, I agree it makes sense to cut it. But if you do, you want to play a shit tonne of Past in Flames and Tendrils and your U opponents are just kinda stuck wondering what to do.

There is a thread on the source:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...inding-Station

The thread is a bit old and the decklists may be outdated, but it links to some interessting articles from Jona and gives a good insight on how to play the deck.

Latest decklist from Jona I found on stormboards is this one from January 2013:

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
1 Rain of Filth
1 Bayou
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Infernal Tutor
2 Past in Flames
4 Ponder
4 Tendrils of Agony

//Sideboard
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Carpet of Flowers
4 Dread of Night
2 Ad Nauseam
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Inquisition of Kozilek

The deck plays nicely and the cards you to build this will be under 5 bucks if you already own some standard ANT list. I also has a very good matchup against RUG Delver :-) Something other storm lists do not offer :-)

Haven't played it a lot lately because I seem to be to dumb to play the 8-7 playstyle vs Hymns and Lilianas :-/
Maybe I am just to unexperienced with the deck.
Some guy from germany went like 12:2 in GP Strasbourg with Grinding Station, but lost 3 times in row afterwards...

[Patrunkenphat7]

Thanks for the info!

[Star|Scream]

What is the ideal manabase for a regular version of this deck (4/4/4/4 or 4/4/4/2 + grim + therapy)

The last two highly-placed decks at SCG both ran 2 gemstone mines, but some people on here bemoan that.

[Patrunkenphat7]

I think there is too much attrition in this deck to run Gemstone Mines. They tend to run out a lot, and I'm not really sure why you need them.
My manabase:
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
5 Blue Fetchlands

SB
1 Tropical Island

I used to run a Bloodstained Mire over the 5th blue fetch, but the 5th blue fetch makes my SB Trop more consistent since I am usually boarding out 1 Island in the matchups where I want the green. Bayou is 10x worse than Trop, and it's really not needed.

[JamieW89]

For me:

Fixed: 12
4 Polluted Delta
4 other Fetch (depending on sb etc, at least 3 blue)
2 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
1 Island

Options: 3-4 of the following
1 Volcanic
1 Badlands/ 2nd Volcanic (don't like it without wishes)
1 Trop/Bayou (To save a SB slot, playing the other one in the board as you want 2 green duals if boarding decays versus decks like MUD/Mav)
2nd Island (I see no need for it, but it's not bad)
9th & 10th fetch (more shuffle effects is always solid)
1 Karakas (Don't like it without chants main)

I play:
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Sea
1 Volc
1 Trop
4 Delta
4 Misty
1 Catacombs
(Bayou SB)

[Patrunkenphat7]

I really don't understand why you need 2 green duals when you are fetching for the green the turn you use it if you fear Wasteland against something like Maverick. Maindeck Trop is a huge liability against any Wasteland deck, and I would never want a maindeck land that is strictly worse than a basic Island game 1. I have never had an issue with only running 1 Trop SB as my green source.

[Dark Ritual]

You want two green sources if you're also boarding xantid swarms generally speaking because merfolk packs wasteland and xantid swarm is literally the best card in our 75 against them. I play a tropical island maindeck over basic island just to save sideboard space. The ability to have it wastelanded rarely comes up and I'm willing to lose a handful of percentage points against wasteland decks by getting an additional sideboard slot. Right now I'm experimenting with bayou maindeck as well over the lone gemstone mine; it has negatively affected my lines of play one game thus far. I might move it to the sideboard and put a 3rd u. sea or fetchland in its place, but time will tell.

Grinding station is an iffy choice currently because of all the discard in the meta. They will likely discard and eat your tendrils with DRS, forcing you to find another tendrils or enough mana to go tutor chain into tendrils or tutor into tutor into PiF. I love grinding station a lot, but I don't like it in the current metagame over other storm decks that are more resilient to discard and deathrite shaman.

As for a really good RUG delver matchup, most storm decks are capable of beating RUG delver. It all comes down to the storm pilot. Can't win them all but at the same time if you know how to play against RUG the matchup becomes significantly better if not in your favor. It's just merfolk splashing green and red, at least to me. It runs a lot of the same cards as merfolk and if you know how to play around said cards, you can generally win with ease at least that's what I've found.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Honestly, Doomsday seems to be the best route to victory imho. I know that isn't what a lot of aggressive storm players wanna hear but its the truth. Also, this can be used as an argument supporting the role of red's inclusion; specifically speaking, Burning Wish.

-ABC

[JamieW89]

Honestly, Doomsday seems to be the best route to victory imho. I know that isn't what a lot of aggressive storm players wanna hear but its the truth. Also, this can be used as an argument supporting the role of red's inclusion; specifically speaking, Burning Wish.

-ABC

Doomsday the best win condition in ANT? Are you trolling? It requires Sensei's Divining Top, which is weak with Cabal Ritual, and Infernal Tutor + LED is not quite the best way to find Doomsday. Not to mention that the draw spell & DD aren't too synergentic with AdN. I have played hybrid lists before, but I found them to be inferior to either DDFT or ANT.
If you meant to state DDFT is a better deck than ANT, that is a completely different discussion. For most people it is also fairly fruitless as they don't want to invest the required time to become proficient with DDFT, which is a much harder deck to pilot than ANT is. I don't think their power level in the current meta is that far apart, but if you believe so why not convince us with arguments?

[Patrunkenphat7]

You want two green sources if you're also boarding xantid swarms generally speaking because merfolk packs wasteland and xantid swarm is literally the best card in our 75 against them. I play a tropical island maindeck over basic island just to save sideboard space. The ability to have it wastelanded rarely comes up and I'm willing to lose a handful of percentage points against wasteland decks by getting an additional sideboard slot. Right now I'm experimenting with bayou maindeck as well over the lone gemstone mine; it has negatively affected my lines of play one game thus far. I might move it to the sideboard and put a 3rd u. sea or fetchland in its place, but time will tell.

Grinding station is an iffy choice currently because of all the discard in the meta. They will likely discard and eat your tendrils with DRS, forcing you to find another tendrils or enough mana to go tutor chain into tendrils or tutor into tutor into PiF. I love grinding station a lot, but I don't like it in the current metagame over other storm decks that are more resilient to discard and deathrite shaman.

As for a really good RUG delver matchup, most storm decks are capable of beating RUG delver. It all comes down to the storm pilot. Can't win them all but at the same time if you know how to play against RUG the matchup becomes significantly better if not in your favor. It's just merfolk splashing green and red, at least to me. It runs a lot of the same cards as merfolk and if you know how to play around said cards, you can generally win with ease at least that's what I've found.

Past in Flames combo is very good against discard decks. The "Grinding Station" list with 4 Tendrils is really strange... But I can say that the concept of going for Past in Flames over Ad Nauseam is better against both discard decks and RUG.

[Fatal]

1 Big diffrence:

- Past in Flames can be hated very easy with any gy hate even like shaman/RIP etc..
- AdN can't be hated so easy only aggresive play can change it value.

[Patrunkenphat7]

1 Big diffrence:

- Past in Flames can be hated very easy with any gy hate even like shaman/RIP etc..
- AdN can't be hated so easy only aggresive play can change it value.

I'm just speaking from experience that when I had Ad Nauseam and Past in Flames in my deck, I almost never used Ad Nauseam. I don't think it's a debate between Past in Flames and AN; I think it's a debate between Empty the Warrens and AN. Also, it is very easy to "hate" o AN, since all your opponent has to deal is deal you damage quickly... Shaman isn't a big issue for Past in Flames if you play well. I think PiF is easily the best combo engine if you're willing to think a little harder instead of autopilot an AN flip. This deck has really evolved into a PiF combo deck, and I think there is a debate to be had about whether or not Empty the Warrens or AN is a better secondary engine.