Using a cantrip to find a land is pretty awful.
Having a 23rd land means you don't need to blow Brainstorm as early, and also means you can get to lategame Batterskull shenanigans much more easily.
22 land has always felt bleeding edge for this deck. I think 23 land is where we should be, but I'm having a tough time finding something to cut. The most likely choice would be Supreme Verdict (move it to the sideboard), but I don't know...Originally Posted by jarvisyu
My current sideboard :
2 surgical extraction
1 darkblast
2 geist of saint traft
2 meddling mage
1 cabal therapy
1 force of will
1 perish
1 zealous persection
1 batterskull
1 relic of progenitus
1 sword of feast and famine
1 desenchant
3 force main, 5 discard main along with 2 pierce main.
@rancor_
That kind of list does seem very interesting. I think I want to try out something like that. So straight cut the 1 ofs (-1 discard, - 1 explosive, -1 vindicate, -1 verdict, -1 ruins) for +1 pierce, +1 snap +1 ponder + 1 clique +1 basic? Does that seem like what you did?
so would you recommend 2 geists? I was thinking 3, but that might actually be unnecessary.
i might be wrong about this but i don't think the shardless match up is that bad. they're a little favored, but the CA they generate in ancestral vision is near matched by the CA we get in lingering souls and stoneforge. most of their threats are just dudes, all we have to do is kill them and ive never seriously had an issue with goyf as a threat. i maybe be wrong, however. gerry t's results against shaheen in the finals of the invitational is evidence against what i am saying, but this is just one piece of data to add to the pool.
how dio you like the meddling mage/batterskull? i have wanted to try those cards i nthe sb for a while but i have not had the chance.
Shardless generates far more card advantage than just with Ancestral Vision. They also have Shardless Agent, Baleful Strix, Hymn to Tourach. They also attack our manabase with Wasteland (this can be mitigated by fetching basics, but this may hamper our board development by not having access to the correct colors at the critical time) and have Creeping Tar Pit, which is a legit way to sidestep our Souls clogging and attack our Jace. This matchup's a lot tougher than you're making it seem.
you might be right, but it's not enough to push the esper out. we attack from a ton of angles too. usually any 2 of our routes to victory (souls, skull, jace) are good enough to ride to victory, so it's just a matter of getting to that point. i may be making it seem easier than it is, but i don't think it's by much.
Nah really it's one of our harder matchups, they have tons of CA we can't keep up with and have their own jaces, which is an important factor. DRS is also very good against us. They have a clear advantage.
I don't like MTG, i just like legacy control decks.Esper stoneblade
For meddling mage, I absolutely love that card, to the point where I am trying to fit in the third copy somewhere. It complements how I want to play agaisnt combo well, in the sense that the card is a proactive way to disrupt combo decks, while also providing some damage on the board. It rewards playing it with a lot of ways to see the opponent's hand, along with straight skill, I guess, when you play it blind. It is also interesting to note that it is a good way to counter xantid swarm like stuff, or a way to disrupt through a leyline of sanctity. Recently, some people have been telling me that a few mages could be sided in against decks like bug to void a few of their cards (for exemple, naming decay to shut down their main removal, or naming ancestral visions to shut down their engine), however I am not really sure how it would do, and certainly did not try that out.
For batterskull number 2, i was surprised by it. i did not think it would be any real good, and tried it solely on the fact that someone told me to try it out and that it was what they did in modern to play against jund, except that we can tutor for our copies. Then, in practice, it happened to be really good for a few reasons. 1. decks like jund hate batterskull, and usually start playing like the crisis is adverted f when your first copy hits the bin. By itself, I have won games when they would make me discard the first copy, but then i would play a second mystic, search for copy number 2 and put it into play with the active mystic, shattering their dreams. 2. Batterskull is a cool topdeck against those decks. 3. having 2 batterskulls in play against decks that already have troubles against one copy without actually making them scoop (creature based decks for instance) seems like a straight win potential (never happened yet, so I don't really know about that).
Finally, I also wanted to test something like baneslayer angel to bring in against miracles like decks, along with jund and bug, and maybe even decks like goblin. I don't know if it is worth it, but it is an idea I had not too long ago.
I would also advocate playing 1 or 2 wastelands to deal with problematic lands in general. It has been helping me against tarpits.
@Aenesiden
I think 4 Snapcasters maybe to many. I been happy with 3. You don't want be holding 2 or more Snapcasters in hand with nothing to flash back.
I like Clique because its castable as an instant and gets information on your opponent's hand while taking out their best card and its a flying clock. I'd consider running a second one but space is too tight. I run second one in the board.
@lost_ronin_soul
I would run 4 Stoneforge Mystic. Not sure about Izzet Charm over the 4th Swords to Plowshares since Swords to Plowshares kills much more then Izzet Charm. If anything I would run Izzet Charm over the 4th Lightning Bolt.
@mike1987
I run 22 lands which I find sufficient with 4 Brainstorms, 1 Sensei's Divining Top and 3-4 Dark Confidant.
@Arsenal
You really want Rest in Peace against Punshing Jund. Baring it getting Abrupt Decayed, Rest in Peace is so good, gimping Tarmogoyf, Deathrite Shaman, and Punshing Fire. Dark Confidant for card draw is the equalizer versus the BUG match up. Without it they out card advantage you between all Ancestral Visions and Cascade.
@Thediscopower
Will have to try Batterskull #2 at some point but I play against lots of combo at my local store so I have Flusterstorms in my board. Meddling mage sounds like a good idea to try versus combo too. I prefer Rest in Peace for my grave yard hate.
Any opinions on maindeck Detention Sphere in the place of Vindicate?
Pros:
Pitchable to FoW (blah blah)
Maindeck answer to S&T
Possible answer to a bunch of Goblins Tokens (corner case)
Answers everything Vindicate can
Easier to cast off of basics
Also hits Thrun (another corner case)
Cons:
Not a Snapcaster target
May not be a permanent removal
I've found Vindicate able to blow up lands to be relevant. A single Maze of Ith can throw a major wrench into our dude + equipment plan.
@ kirika
You remind me that i actually wanted to try 3 copies of dark confidant in my sideboard against your usual fair decks!!! Well, I guess I'll have some more work to do in the coming week. Also, I agree with rest in piece, however the only reason I cut it was because I thought it would be a total nombo with darkblast, so I opted for relic as the third anti graveyard. actually, how many confidants do you play for reference?
@bilb_o
Arsenal is right, in the fact that vindicate hitting lands in a huge thing. Also, doesn't thrun have hexproof? Don't think sphere works on him. Another thing, I don't really want to play sphere against one million maindeck decays, nowadays. As Shaheen Soorani would say, vindicate is your miracle card in your deck. Your 1-outer to anything. As such, I don't believe it should be cut for anything.
What would you recommend for a SB, vidi's list maindeck in my meta. In my area there's little to no Jund, RUG, stoneblade or agent BUG. There is however a crapton of combo, particularly TES with some S&T. I mostly want extra hate against storm but dont need to worry as much about tribal, the mirror or Jund.
Any suggestions for a SB or modifications to the maindeck?
fair enough. if im wrong, im wrong.
Yes Vindicate hits land, that's quite big.. I play 2 Wastelands as well and often used Vindicate on lands, I don't know how I missed that. I think I got too excited at the idea of a maindeck S&T answer all of a sudden.
I've always wanted to fit 1-2 Wasteland in here, not for mana/color denial ala RUG Delver, but to get rid of problematic lands (Maze of Ith being the worst offender) once the game has entered grindtime. Opposing Academy Ruins, opposing Karakas, Maze of Ith, etc all can be pretty big problems in the long game. Even 1 Wasteland in addition to 1 Vindicate we normally play would help this. Has anyone thought the same about problematic lands, or does it not come up often enough to warrant the inclusion of yet another colorless mana producing land (I hate having Academy Ruins in my opener, and would probably stab myself if I opened with Ruins + Wasteland).
EDIT: Upon further thought, I think 1-2 Wasteland could definitely be in the UW Stone Blade shell, but probably not the 3 color UWb or UWr shell, too taxing on the already precarious manabase.
@ TheArchitect: In this meta I would highly recommend my SB on the beginning of the page. Boarding 13 cards vs those combo decks is huge. Postboard TES, ANT, or SaS become very positive in my opinion!
@ Arsenal: I know many are disagree'ing here, but cutting the Ruins for a one of Wasteland, has been huge for me. Ruins are so seldom used and Wastelands versality makes up for that, while making the combo MU better aswell.
I can remember a clear 3 games which I won just on the back of Wasteland (including the fact, that players don't expect to see this from Esper...people netdecking lists, bla), where as I can't tell this from Ruins (little evidence I know) . In the lategame I usually prefer drawing /finding Jace, Souls etc. then skipping my drawstep for my BSK. Maybe this is a playstyle decision as well...
EDIT: I agree that playing both Ruins and Waste seems to taxing for the Esper manabase.
Arsenal,
I've been running the following manabase for the past 2 months:
1x Academy Ruins
4x Flooded Strand
3x Polluted Delta
1x Marsh Flats
2x Island
1x Karakas
1x Plains
1x Swamp
1x Scrubland
3x Tundra
3x Underground Sea
2x Wasteland
It may look greedy but I'm feeling perfectly comfortable with it. Maybe because I've been historically playing blue control decks always with Wastelands and feel like it's a safety net against a bunch of things. About a month ago they saved me from a lethal Price of Progress twice. You'd think it's a corner case use, but it's just such a utility I can't do without it.
Edit: Also speaking of opposing trouble lands even cards like Phyrexian Tower can be quite relevant in our weeklies. So I think yes, having the ability to get rid of them is important if you are not playing in a SCG copy-paste meta.
So every once and a while a jank card appears and becomes playable. I want to know that if the increase in Liliana decks (Jund, BUG variants, ect) does Dodecapod seem playable?
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