[Deck] GW/x Maverick

[IL_casual]

For those that have gone to discard and cut Thalia, how much better is your combo matchup now? Also, how are your other non-creature centric matchups? Did you ever miss Thalia versus decks like BUG/RUG Delver, Esperblade, etc?

Tarmo and delver can be abrupt decayed without any chance of being countered, cutting rugs offensive threat significantly.
I think our postboard esperblade/bug matchups increased significantly . Too many times my offense sputtered as soon as engineered plague naming humans (noble/thalia/mom)drops on the board. Since were no longer packing thalia/nobles, we effectively shut off one of their main threats.

[kai_nsane]

@ Sunyveil:

With your list, how do you play against Dredge? You just have 1 Tormods Crypt, 2 Scooze and the Deathrite Shamans + maybe Engineered Plague on Horror.

@ How do you play against Dredge?, When is the best moment to use a Scooze, a Tormods Crypt or search for a Bojuka Bog with a KotR?

[Koby]

@ Sunyveil:

With your list, how do you play against Dredge? You just have 1 Tormods Crypt, 2 Scooze and the Deathrite Shamans + maybe Engineered Plague on Horror.

@ How do you play against Dredge?, When is the best moment to use a Scooze, a Tormods Crypt or search for a Bojuka Bog with a KotR?

The optimal time to blast a g/y nuke is in response to creatures entering the battlefield either from Bridge from Below (the Bridge checks to see if it's still in the g/y to make the tokens) or from Narcomoeba and Ichorid. Tormod's Crypt is ideal for this, as is an active KotR. Scavenging Ooze is the best long term plan against Dredge, and your priority should be to get him on the battlefield and use him as much as possible until you win. Watch out for Firestorm and Contagion.

[Sunyveil]

@ Sunyveil:

With your list, how do you play against Dredge? You just have 1 Tormods Crypt, 2 Scooze and the Deathrite Shamans + maybe Engineered Plague on Horror.

@ How do you play against Dredge?, When is the best moment to use a Scooze, a Tormods Crypt or search for a Bojuka Bog with a KotR?

The only thing you need to do vs. Dredge is to survive long enough until you get a Scavenging Ooze online. Deathrite Shaman will often be enough to win as well. Do whatever it takes to get there.

[kai_nsane]

Thank you for the Dredge tips!

I make a few testgames against UWMiracle, UW Helm of Obdience Combo and URSneak Attak.

The Discard is a lot of better than the Thalia in this Mu's.

Just GW Maverick has a horrible Mu against UW Controll imo, but with the Discard and Abrupt Decay it get a lot of better. Discard is good against Sneak Attack too, but there KotR -> Maze of Ith/Karakas, ORing, Revoker, Qasali are mvp's too in the mu.

The manabase is very stable, I notice no difference from GW in contrast to GWB.
Maybe i pay the 300€ for the Splash, because it has really just advantages :D

[kingsey]

Seems the Black splash is gaining steam....

I got smoked vs jund last night with plain GW. I was thinking about going to punishing Fires over the black splash to deal with more creature based decks.

What would you say in an open meta is the better splash is and why?

[IL_casual]

Seems the Black splash is gaining steam....

I got smoked vs jund last night with plain GW. I was thinking about going to punishing Fires over the black splash to deal with more creature based decks.

What would you say in an open meta is the better splash is and why?

In an open meta, I would go with the black splash. Punishing mav is incredibly weak to combo and just gets a tad better against it post sideboard(REB/Pyroblast). With black, discards can help against an open field , decays can combat control decks and deathrite shamans life gain ability can provide life gain against an aggro deck.

[phazonmutant]

For once, not trolling:

What do you guys see as the difference been you and other Junk / Rock decks? In the past it's been easy to say "hatebears", but now a lot of the GW/b builds don't run any Thalia. Do you think having a more consistent GWb manabase is better than the option of not focusing on KotR and being more solidly 3 colors like Junk?


I'm a little bit surprised that the GWb decks with discard instead of Thalia are actually having success against combo. Combo decks are built to fight discard in their maindeck, but beating Thalia is much, much harder.

[Manipulato]

Hey Guys,
yesterday i looked at the price of Voice of Resurgence. He was at 18-19 €/piece on magiccardmarket.eu...
Today i looked again an I cant believe what i see!!! Cheapest for 50 € in spanish A english one for 58 €!?!
Can anybody explain me that fuckin price explosion??? I know he is good but not Jace good! Maybe playable in our Maverick??

https://www.magickartenmarkt.de/Voic...c1p261356.prod

Greeting from Germany^^

[Manipulato]

For once, not trolling:

What do you guys see as the difference been you and other Junk / Rock decks? In the past it's been easy to say "hatebears", but now a lot of the GW/b builds don't run any Thalia. Do you think having a more consistent GWb manabase is better than the option of not focusing on KotR and being more solidly 3 colors like Junk?


I'm a little bit surprised that the GWb decks with discard instead of Thalia are actually having success against combo. Combo decks are built to fight discard in their maindeck, but beating Thalia is much, much harder.

I had the same thought as you! Sure against fast combo we can interact with them on T1 but after the one discard spell we have nothing (exept maybe the 1off zenithed Teeg) to stop them from being kill us! Thalia lies on the battlefield for the whole game and stop them from killing us, Thoughtseize only pick them one card and thats it, so we only buy time but for what? We dont have a fast clock nor we have hatebears anymore. So I think maybe a combination between Thalias & Discard is the strongest option to fight unfair decks. The only question is what do we cut? For the moment i play 4 Thoughtseize main and Thalia + Canonist in the SB. This Saturday i will play my first Tournament with the B Splash, we will see how it works.

[defector]

@kai_nsane: Another element against dredge is Teeg. He shuts off DR and keeps them from comboing out on you. It forces them into the long game which you are favored in.

[IL_casual]

I had the same thought as you! Sure against fast combo we can interact with them on T1 but after the one discard spell we have nothing (exept maybe the 1off zenithed Teeg) to stop them from being kill us! Thalia lies on the battlefield for the whole game and stop them from killing us, Thoughtseize only pick them one card and thats it, so we only buy time but for what? We dont have a fast clock nor we have hatebears anymore. So I think maybe a combination between Thalias & Discard is the strongest option to fight unfair decks. The only question is what do we cut? For the moment i play 4 Thoughtseize main and Thalia + Canonist in the SB. This Saturday i will play my first Tournament with the B Splash, we will see how it works.

Against combo, thats exactly the whole strategy, discards for the early game and mom + teeg for the remainder of the match.

[Manipulato]

Against combo, thats exactly the whole strategy, discards for the early game and mom + teeg for the remainder of the match.

The problem against fast combo (for example) is that if you play 1st turn Discard you cannot resolve 2nd turn Teeg because the zenith cost´s 3cc...Sometimes it can be just too slow, a thalia in the 2nd turn would be backbreaking for them...That´s the reason i will try the thalia´s in the SB for the moment.
Against Show&Tell Decks the Teeg main do nothing till not much against them, so we have only a 1-2nd turn discard, they play BS or Ponder and finish us (1st Game). The traditional GW build plays T2 Thalia and slow him down. Plus in combination with wastelands we can screw them...

[IL_casual]

The problem against fast combo (for example) is that if you play 1st turn Discard you cannot resolve 2nd turn Teeg because the zenith cost´s 3cc...Sometimes it can be just too slow, a thalia in the 2nd turn would be backbreaking for them...That´s the reason i will try the thalia´s in the SB for the moment.
Against Show&Tell Decks the Teeg main do nothing till not much against them, so we have only a 1-2nd turn discard, they play BS or Ponder and finish us (1st Game). The traditional GW build plays T2 Thalia and slow him down. Plus in combination with wastelands we can screw them...

3 Thalia's (the number i need for thalia to be available in turn 2) seem to be too many for a sideboard. But i do have to agree, in a combo based meta, i would have to agree thalia can greatly help in at least slowing down our opponent. Just be aware that in sideboarded games, ant/tinfin decks just pack chains of vapor and wait before going off.

[sdematt]

If you're in a Combo based meta and you're running GWB, you run ~6 or more slots of discard, 3 Thalia, and 2-3 Teeg with GSZ to tutor against Combo. This is how you attempt to reliably beat Combo. You won't ALWAYS get them, but it gets there most of the time.

-Matt

[kai_nsane]

I think, if youre on the draw, the combo mu is always bad. They can go off on your turn, then you just have time to cast one Discardspell/DS/MoR or GSZ->DA.

In the 2nd game you can boarding Ethersworn Canonist+Enlightened Tutor. Maybe Surgical Extraction, Revoker/Needle to shut off Petals and Engineered Explosives (For Tokens).
With 4 Ethersworn Canonist (1 Canonist 3 Tutor) and 1 Teeg+4GSZ + Discard you have the best Options to win this mu imo.

I think Ethersworn is the better Thalia, because it shutdown Storm (With MoR protection) and its tutorable.

[Fatal]

Comparison:

Factor - Thalia vs Canonist - Overlay

Storm MU - Thalia is better because stops also cantrips and free mana sources(tax them) - sometimes Belcher then go off with Canon though the Canonist.
Thalia 1 - 0 Canonist

Dredge - Thalia is very good in this MU - it can totally stops therapies, and all draw spells if connected with wasteland - Canonist do here mostly nothing.
Thalia 2 - 0 Canonist

S&T - Thalia buy a turn - Canonist with Karakas can stops all non-Sneak for also a turn but post fact after thread is already in play.
Thalia 2 - 1 Canonist

Body factor - Thalia dies to dread of night.

Thalia 2 - 2 Canonist

Type - Thalia is legendary which is bad here - Canonist on the other hand is an artifact which open more way to remove it.

Thalia 3 - 3 Canonist

Creature combat - Thalia has first strike which is very good.

Thalia 4 - 3 Canonist

Elves MU - Thalia do nothing here - where canonist stops Glimpse route

Thalia 4 - 4 Canonist

Symmetric effect - We running about 8-12 noncreature spells in all deck, only elves running less (but not always) and only 1-2 artifacts which mean we are also slowed down by Canonist effect.

Thalia 5 - 4 Canonist

Tutorable - Canonist can be found by E.Tutor which Thalia can't

Thalia 5 - 5 Canonist


Overlay is tide :) but if your meta contain Elves be prepared for it.

[IL_casual]

My sideboard in an open meta
1 cabal therapy- i already know their deck based from game 1. Vs combo (i think thoughtseize might be better here)
2 enlightened tutor - never leave a white deck without it."
1 aethersworn canonist- vs goblins/elves/storm
1 choke- for the ever popular island
1 circle of protection red - is the nuts vs rdw
1 linvala -vs midrange fair decks/mirror(flex slot)
1 bojuka bog - vs dredge and grave based decks
2 surgical extraction - see above
1 oblivion ring - my catch all
1 gaddock teeg - vs combo and control
1 engineered explosives- catch all 2
2 engineered plague - a nightmare for tribal decks.

Any suggestion what i should change?

[Fatal]

I would put in 1 more removal on SB but it depends how many you have on MD (Abrupt Decay for sure), also second Jitte, it is also vs all middle range/tribal decks.

[BlackFlameAshura]

Hey Guys,
yesterday i looked at the price of Voice of Resurgence. He was at 18-19 €/piece on magiccardmarket.eu...
Today i looked again an I cant believe what i see!!! Cheapest for 50 € in spanish A english one for 58 €!?!
Can anybody explain me that fuckin price explosion??? I know he is good but not Jace good! Maybe playable in our Maverick??

https://www.magickartenmarkt.de/Voic...c1p261356.prod

Greeting from Germany^^

Most likely just Standard speculation is my assumption. He's NOT gonna stay up that high. I still think he might be seeing some fringe play in Maverick here but we're talking VERY fringe and most likely making it a meta call. You almost certainly won't be seeing him in any SCG lists. He's also not horrible for EDH where you have multiple people casting lots of spells on other peoples' turns, though it really is probably all just due to Standard. The decks he's played in aren't exactly top tier from what I can tell but he showed up in a few of the top 16 SCG list this week and each deck he was in he was a 4-of. Once there's a little more supply and a bit less demand from the people wanting to try him in other formats, he'll drop a bit, probably hover close to $20-25 when all's said and done until he rotates out of Standard (not quite sure bout the European market number).