When there's a will, there's a way. Counters, discard, sac effects, well timed targeted removal, Revokers, "don't give a fuck" combo/SnT... In a deck with only one threat, Varolz is a dead man.Originally Posted by kingtk3
overall with all the Enlightned Tutors around, 1x Cursed Totem SB and you're done
not to mention that you scoop to all the "Rest in Peace" decks etc..
fun and nice idea, but it should be a side win condition in a much more reliable strategy. I see that card being too fragile (not to mention that's a Legend overall.. can't even overflow the opponent with redundancy..)
If you want stop proof creature try Phyrexian Crusader, its also bolt proof. When zoo was top deck i played crusader in my eva list in md.
Scavenge him with death's shadow and swing for kill
Opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one
I would most definitely include 4 Goyfs. They're good on their own and decent scavenge fodder. GSZ also gives you additional consistency in that regard.
As for disruption, why not go for Thoughtseize (powers up your Shadow as plan C) + Therapy (+ Gitaxian Probe, although that might be more cute than useful)?
The lack of Liliana is also disturbing. She clears blockers, gets creatures into the yard for immediate scavenge shenanigans and is all around a great card. There's absolutely no reason to not run her, especially with GSZ + DRS accel around.
Edit:
I would probably go with something like this:
2 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Death's Shadow
4 Dark Confidant
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Liliana of the Veil
21 Lands
The numbers could use some tweaking, but that's just a rough draw. Less reliant on Varolz and thus less explosive, but imho also more solid.
In a similar vein, both Keldon Marauders and Hellspark Elemental would be interesting too.
Other cards like Jotun Grunt and Barrow Ghoul that sac themselves after maybe a hit or 2 coukd be interesting as well.
So, some good info here. Amidst all the calls for "make it more comboish" and "make it less comboish", I agree that making the deck less dependent upon Varolz is certainly a good idea. Considering that all the hardest cards to circumvent can be handled with Qasali Pridemage, a white splash seems to be in order. Whether to include Tarmo or not might depend upon if Varolz ends up being good enough on his own to not need a true combo to support him.
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Having the biggest brain fart right now
DS and PD?
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Death's Shadow, Phyrexian Dreadnaught.
With a BUG Shell consider also Intuition: card advantage for 3 Phyrexian Dreadnought/Death's Shadow or tutor for Varolz (or other stuff) if needed.
EDIT: Another root could be adding Varolz to a Torpor Orb shell. The deck makes actual use of Phyrexian Dreadnought and Hunted Horror, gaining a side plan with Varolz. Maybe in a BUG tempo shell:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
2 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Hunted Horror
3 Torpor Orb
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Thoughtseize
4 Wasteland
4 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
This deck is so sick. I am going to jump on this bandwagon hardcore.
Anywho, what about thrun the last troll? Hexproof seems like a rad addition to this strategy
Out of interest, is there a reason people aren't looking into, say, a GWB version that's akin to Maverick but runs DRS over Heirarch and Varolz over KotR?
Seems to me that the more solid plan is to build a mid-range deck that functions well without Varolz, make sure it has some acceleration, utility, and a bunch of creatures that your opponent can't allow to just sit there, and then when you're starting to run out of steam you plop down Varolz and everything they've removed is now more P/T for you.
In unrelated news, Unearth seems like an excellent card for this deck that no one has brought up yet. Also drags things out of the GY, but it's useful if you're binning things and don't have a Varolz around, since you can still get at them.
A GBW Maverick like shell was my first idea too: a deck good on its own, with GSZ for fetching Varolz and MoR to protect the scavenge targets. The point is that you need scavenge "bombs" like PD or DS for having Varolz make an impact, but PD and DS are totally dead draw without Varolz - the deck was too inconsistent. A two card combo is worth only if its pieces are intrinsically good, and this is not the case, or if the combo wins on the spot, and this is not the case either.
That's why I started thinking to a deck where scavenging bombs are good on their own, and Varolz is an obvious upgrade, without possibility of dead cards. ATM my best found is the Stiflenought + Hunted Horror + Torpor Orb I listed above. It's much faster than the other options I saw in the thread and well suited to disrupt the opponent and assemble its combos with the BUG shell.
Yeah, the best version looks like it will be midrange. Tarmos retain their size while not otb, so they might have to be included. I don't know about blue though.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
What do you think of my version Finn?
I'm not sure why you think you have to be grabbing a ton of counters with Varolz to make him good.
Look at Maverick. It puts out good, if sometimes somewhat slow, pressure with lots of disruption. KotR and Ooze are the only big hitters, and neither of them starts out particularly large. Instead, they both add utility and slowly get bigger and bigger.
Varolz gets bigger faster but with essentially no utility.
If you can make up the lack of utility by changing around some other cards, I'd say you have a very similarly strong deck, probably with a better combo match-up because of targeted discard out of the SB and a weaker RUG match-up because of a weaker mana-base. Can't say a whole lot about others without testing.
Morte - I like the look of that list. It has a real plan and it's not all-in on anything except maybe Torpor Orb. I think I would cut a Trop for a Bayou though.
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to Morte's list:
nice deck phyrexian varolz is awesome. Congratz
i would exchange the horrors with Hunted Phantasm and the dazes with force of will.
hunted is very strong and u will play it who cares if he has the scaravenge cost 3 and gives "only" +4+4...
17 blue cards and there u go
edit: add 1 academy ruins
How? I'm pretty sure dudes in the yard will only have Scavenge when Varolz is on the battlefield. Since you can Scavenge only as a sorcery you can't respond to the Karakas activation.
That's not how Illusionary Mask (link to gatherer) works The creatures are counterable since you're still casting them, and Illusionary Mask does not give your creatures Flash. In fact, since you're casting the creature face down as a 2/2 I don't think you can even cast a creature that does have Flash at instant speed (not 100% sure about this last part).
After you play Varolz you have priority because it is your turn. You put Scavenge on the Stack and then pass priority.
Priority stuff. When he enters the battlefield you get the opportunity to do something before your opponent does. It's the same reason a Planeswalker can activate it's +1 the second it enters the battlefield to prevent it from being burnt out instantly.
In unrelated news, I've been doing a little research and there are a handful of creatures that could be good with Varolz in a mid-range deck that aren't great without him and might wander into some SBs...
Spike Feeder
Champion of Lambholt
Skullbriar
Twilight Drover
Kitchen Finks
Corpsejack Menace
Of those, Spike Feeder, Champion, and Skullbriar are probably the best.
Spike Feeder will 100% win games against Burn and some combo decks if you have Varolz out and a way to bin creatures, i.e. Lotleth Troll.
Champion of Lambholt gives evasion to all of your creatures if you can make it big enough, which is definitely a possibility with Varolz.
Skullbriar costs two, has haste, gets bigger when he hits people, and keeps all counters on himself if he hits the graveyard. Makes him an ideal target to GSZ for with Varolz out, as he swings the turn he comes into play and if they kill him in response you can still get the counters on a different creature the next turn.
Skullbriar is probably the only one that belongs in MD, while a one-of Spike Feeder in the SB seems good. No idea if Champion of Lambholt will play out or not, as its strength is really dependent on how big the other creatures in the deck are.
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