I want free zombies though. Greed!Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin
Matt Bevenour in real life
Geth's Grimoire is also an artifact. And comes from a time when WotC would do things like overcost 'colored' effects and put them on artifacts as a way to say 'look! artifacts are BAD at these things because it isn't very artifact-ish at all!' I mean this still happens but not nearly as primarily as it used to - it's a practice which MaRo recently commented was probably done in vain. He was talking specifically about Desert Twister but the point of fact was, overcosting something to "keep it out" of the color you're putting it into doesn't work.
I believe RoN could see print at BB and still be playable, but I'd prefer 1B. Or even just add some text about how all of these things only trigger if it is an effect you control, as opposed to Geth's synergy with, like, your opponent controlling Survival of the Fittest or Wild Mongrel or whatever. As long as it compliments a first turn Dark Ritual play - as in you can go "Ritual, RoN, Inquisition of Kozilek" or something like that - it will be worth trying out.
In any deck I've thought of where blood (assuming cc=3) might be playable, shit like life//death is much better.
Except that Blood is a recurring source of card advantage, whereas Life//Death (Death side) is a one-shot effect like Reanimate. It doesn't generate any card advantage whereas Blood does as long as you get to activate it more than once, which will be trivially easy to do.
If this effect is so powerful, then why doesn't Oath of Ghouls see play? It has an aggressive cost and is easier to trigger than Oversold Cemetery, especially when playing Exile effects like StP/Path and/or Deathrite which is also in the same color as Oath.
Alternately, why doesn't Unearth see more play then since it hits most creatures and even returns them to play.
If this triggered whenever you lost life instead of waiting until the end step, then I'd be all for it due to the potential, but with the current wording I just don't see it being that good. Maybe if it costs B or 1B it could have potential, or maybe I'm just missing what makes it so good to you.
I'm more interested in seeing what could be done with RoN. If I want creatures back I'll use Volrath's Stronghold.
The key in understand why Oath of Ghouls is bad and Blood in the Watering Can is actually good is the bold part here. Oath is completely symmetrical if the opponent is playing creatures at all. The only way to make Oath asymmetrical is to build your deck around bad cards that fill your graveyard. IF that's what you're doing, then you might as well be playing dredge instead.Oath of Ghouls 1B
Enchantment
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, if there are more creature cards in that player's graveyard than in any of his or her opponents' graveyards, the player may return target creature card of his or her choice from his or her graveyard to his or her hand.
Blood in the Watering Can lets you play good cards that don't depend on Blood being in play to be useful. Just play creatures like any deck, play fetchlands, play something like Dark Confidant and Thoughtseize, and you can exploit Blood. To make Oath work at all, you either a.) have to devote your deck to stuffing your graveyard with creatures, thus making it a bad dredge deck with cards that are bad unless Oath is in play or b.) allow the opponent to benefit from your own Oath, thereby making the effect symmetrical and BAD in a competitive deck.
Regarding Unearth: it is a one-shot effect. It doesn't generate any card advantage at all. Blood has the potential to be a draw engine, basically. It can generate steady card advantage over the course of the game. That is far more valuable than a one-shot effect that gives you +0 card advantage.
Assuming Blood in the Watering Can doesn't end up as overcosted garbage - what are the best ways to abuse it? A Nic Fit shell?
I would personally like to try it in some B/x aggro deck that plays 4 Thoughtseize and 4 Dark Confidant and maybe even 4 Bitterblossom. Or alternately, some B/G Rock type of deck looking for a card advantage engine that plays lots of CITP guys like Shriekmaw, and maybe even Street Wraith. Nic Fit would be a good place to start testing, too.
@MGB: Until which casting cost would you consider it highly playable? At which casting costs would you consider it garbage?
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
I'd say it has to be less than 4 mana to be competitively playable. It *might* be playable at 4 mana, but that's really pushing it.
Less than 3 mana is a lock for playability but I don't think that Wizards will be this bold.
I think it might be better in a Grixis Control shell, with cards like Shriekmaw, which reads, ", pay 1 life: Destroy target Emrakul. Return Shriekmaw to hand at the end step."
I could see blood being ok in a deathcloud/smallpox shell if it cost 1B. But I think it's going to be too slow for legacy, and it's probably going to cost BBBB or something ridiculous.
Another interesting way to go with this would be to play it in a B/R Burn-Aggro type of list with lots of "one-shot" high-damage creatures with Trample that were printed over the years like Ball of Lightning and Spark Elemental and Mogg Fanatic and also guys like Keldon Marauders. And in that same deck you could also play Shriekmaw as well to handle opposing fatties.
One of the problems Burn decks have always had is running out of gas late due to no draw engines. Well, this could potentially give them almost infinite recursion. And between fetchlands and Barbarian Ring and the like, it will be triggered constantly. You could even play Dark Confidant alongside the red burn guys.
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
2-3 Barbarian Ring
Duals/Basics
4 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Goblin Guide
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Spark Elemental
4 Vexing Devil (if opponent chooses to take the 4 damage you can keep bringing him back!)
4 Ball Lightning (maybe, or maybe too expensive)
4 Dark Confidant
4 Shriekmaw
4 Blood in the Watering Can
Vexing Devil in particular is really good with Blood, because if opponent expects Blood in the Watering Can, and can't deal with it, you basically get a 4/3 for 1 mana guaranteed.
I'd love to run that deck if blood is properly costed. Ball lightning might be pushing it. Getting RRR in a multicolored deck seems greedy (but maybe not). You are running 48 nonlands, which is too high. Flipping shriekmaw off of dark confidant is a bad time. Also it's mostly Modern legal (not that I play that, but still).
Yeah I don't know if I'd play Ball Lightning or Dark Confidant. If Blood costs 2 or maybe even 3 mana, that could be the "Draw Engine" and you might not need Dark Conf. I was mostly just throwing card options out there - it's not a real deck. You would obviously need to tune that, but I think the basis of 4 Bolt / 4 Chain + Spark/Devil/Marauders/Shriekmaw/Fanatic/etc + 4 Blood is a good one.
Man, Vexing Devil / Keldon Marauders / Shriekmaw are so good with Blood, and not bad on their own.
And I never even play Red decks. There might be other "sac at end step" or CITP guys that could be really good in this type of deck.
I also love the Modern interaction of Painlands with Blood. Which is going to be SO MUCH COMEDY.
Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet, but the winner is Revenge of Necromancy.
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazin...y/feature/249b
That's probably because it's not worth mentioning. The card is terrible.
I mean, they could rescue it by making it symmetrical, in which case the card is basically just a saucy combo engine every which way. But let's get real here: it'll cost four or more and be a $0.10 rare from the day of release.
Ayup. Unless they so a Skullclamp and add in something without testing.
The winning card is so BAD that on the article they're hinting that the text is going to change even before attempting to give it a mana cost.
Please stop talking about whether Force of Will is broken or not. It obviously is, and rather than "the glue that holds vintage together" it would be better to call it "the rug under which you hide the filth until there's so much that you can no longer conceal it".
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