[Deck] Jund

[zulander]

I like Liliana + Loam, I really do. I'm just not sure that engine is what Jund needs. Banking on that single loam is pretty risky business imho.

[aluisiocsantos]

I never used Loam before, in fact, that's going on my next testing this weekend (along with using Sensei's Top instead of Library, and no bolts but with Pulse MD) so I never really thought of that interaction (I've interacted a lot with Punishing Fire this way though), but I think it's insanity to not use Liliana if you are able to. It's not excellent vs Goblins (unless you drop it real early) or Elves, but she's one of the weapons vs combo.

Player: Show and Tell
Me: Ok.
He flips an Emrakul, I flip a land.
My turn, 3 land/tap Shaman and Liliana.
Sac spaghetti plz.

[zulander]

Liliana is great against show and tell combo, that's pretty much where the greatness ends imho. She doesn't actually take over any games. I've never heard a competent player say "I lost to Liliana" solely and exclusively. Shifting the main to fit in answers for the entire meta is incorrect imho, and is best to try and focus on certain matchups while having a solidified boarding strategy for decks you just scoop to. I think it's perfectly acceptable to play 8 md discard (TS/Hymn) and board in 3 Red Blast and 3 Edicts against Show and Tell while having a MD that has a 50%+ matchup against delvers, gobos, maverick, and control. Seems pretty damn good if you ask me.

[zulander]

And just like that Liliana becomes better... lol.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...niqueness-rule

[razvan]

Had another 4-2 tournament, this time finishing 11th, not 10th, despite there being 2 4-2's that made top-8.

Lost to Dredge in a reasonably contested 3-game set where I had to mulligan game 3 and I was at the mercy of my opponent's less than stellar dredges. I did manage to smoke the 3 bridges he had and had a brief glimmer of hope but him dredging the 4th eventually was the nail in the coffin.

Again lost to RUG in 3. This is getting very annoying, I think I am something like 1-7 against RUG since I put Punishing Fire in. He did top-deck a few Rough/Tumbles at opportune moments (and Bolted a goyf afterwards) to 2-1 and 3-2 me, but again it came down to Nimble Mongoose and my horrible mana base. I really do not know what to do other than take out the Punishing Fires and try something else. This is getting to be really bad at the current moment. Hell, maybe even Chain Lightnings might be useful. I always wanted to try those!

I was even debating bringing back MANY Engineered Explosives (probably bad because of Stifle), trying out Diabolic Edict (probably bad because of Spell Snare), and so on. Hell, I was even debating Wall of Blossoms since it at least replaces itself, still bad because of Snare.

I do actually think that maybe Kitchen Finks are necessary. Gotta try it out.

I beat High Tide and ANT (somehow), beat Merfolk and my one RUG win lately, despite having these type of games against Goldfarb:

Game 1: Start with Dual, 2x Fetchland, Shaman, Bob, Bolt, Goyf. Stifle, Stifle, Daze the shaman then waste the dual. GG.
Game 3: Mull to a 2-land hand, get both killed, then proceed to draw mostly land and get threats online, at 1 life I get Ooze and Liliana down.

My actual matchups and opponents:

R1: Conor with High Tide 2-0
R2: Mike Vegh with Dredge 1-2
R3: Caleb with Merfolk 2-0
R4: Dave Goldfarb (more like Dave PROfarb) with RUG 2-1
R5: Jason with RUG 1-2
R6: Spencer with ANT 2-0

[zulander]

I think Lavamancer is better than PFires, especially against rug. I've come up with another updated main. I may post it later today hopefully.

[zulander]

Uhm, holy crap:

1R
Young Pyromancer

Creature - Human Shaman
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, put a 1/1 red Elemental creature token onto the battlefield.
Immolation is the sincerest form of flattery.
2/1

[Xtreme]

I won a 89 person tournament with Jund. Heres the report + decklist

1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Taiga
2 Bayou
3 Badlands
4 Wasteland
1 Polluted Delta
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Marsh Flats
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sylvan Library

SB
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Duress
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Engineered Plague
1 Choke
1 Seal of Primordium
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Grim Lavamancer

First a few notes about the decklist.
-As I dont own enough jund-fetches I had to fill in with fetches that only get one jund-landtype. This came to bite me in the finals, but I managed to topdeck
another land to get me the last color.
-I was expecting a lot of combo and blue midrange decks(esper and bug), the sideboard reflects those exceptations
-Excepting some grindy matches, I would probably have added punishing fire+grove had I owned them. It turned out better not to. After this tournament, I will not add p-fire under any circumstances. the Finnish metagame is full of wasteland, so Im fine without p-fire

I also won a trial to this event with the same maindeck, so I had 2 byes going in.

Round 1-2 Bye

Round 3 Esperblade with lingering souls 2-1
Game 1 He gets stuck on 2 lands after I wasteland hes underground sea and doesnt recover
Game 2 I get beaten by swords on my deathrite, snapcaster swords on my confidant into lingering souls beats
Game 3 I start with land go, then abrupt decaying his turn 2 stoneforge. He doesnt draw gas for a while, and I discard his jace when he has 3 non-blue lands in play

Round 4 Feature match against Merfolk 2-0
http://www.twitch.tv/poromagia/b/408454144 (about 3:15 in the video)

Round 5 against Bug delver(team america) 2-1
Game 1: I was lucky to win the dieroll, because I beleive I would have lost had I not. He gets stuck on lands after a 1-2 wastelands and I'm able to progress my board better than he is.
Game 2: He wastelands + sinkholes me out of the game
Game 3: Being on the play is highly relevant again. We exchange resources and cards till I eventually have a 3/4 goyf, a lavamancer and a deathriteshaman and he has a tombstalker and is at ~10 life. I attack with the goyf into his stalker, it gets through for 3 dmg. I have a lightning bolt and win after a deathrite + lavamancer activation

After this I'm 5-0 and first in standings so I can quite safely ID the next 2 rounds

Result after swiss: 5-0-2 and second in standings.

Top 8:
I play my round 5 opponent with Bug delver again. It turns out he won the rest of the matches he played. Being on the play and a couple of good topdecks win me the game 2-1.

Top 4: Bug cascade 2-0

Top 2: Hivemind combo 2-0


The top 4 matches can be found here: http://www.twitch.tv/poromagia/b/408591963 (about 1:08 in the video)

A notable blunder(amongst others) I made in the finals game 2 was mistapping my mana when playing my confidant, leaving up a wasteland(which I wasnt planning on using) instead of a badlands to cast a bolt. This tilted me of leading to a bigger mistake in forgetting my confidant trigger.

Very happy with the win and the deck. A note I made is that if u have shaman and thoughtseize in your opener, you (almost) always want to start of with shaman. Shaman is IMO the best card in the deck and shot my opponents for a LOT of damage during the event

I apologize to my opponents for having an abysmal ability to remember names and also to take notes had I written something falsely. Overall it was a pleasure to play. Props to my BUG-Delver opponent for the tightest games of the day
Thanks for reading!

Edit: Corrected the decklist

[aluisiocsantos]

Thats a pretty awesome result man! COngratulations!
Also no PFires! How did you like your sideboard? Were Jittes worthy?

[zulander]

Grats on the finish!

[Xtreme]

Thanks for the congrats

And yes, the Jittes were really good. I brought them in in the esper, merfolk and bug cascade games(unsure If I brought them in against Bug delver). Overall I was pleased with the sideboard as I happened to get the matchups I was expecting. My biggest concern going into the tournament was the lack of answers to Leyline of sanctity, but I couldnt figure out how to make that work. Maybe a maelstrom pulse instead of something? Not sure what I would cut though

[rockout]

Liliana is great against show and tell combo, that's pretty much where the greatness ends imho. She doesn't actually take over any games. I've never heard a competent player say "I lost to Liliana" solely and exclusively. Shifting the main to fit in answers for the entire meta is incorrect imho, and is best to try and focus on certain matchups while having a solidified boarding strategy for decks you just scoop to. I think it's perfectly acceptable to play 8 md discard (TS/Hymn) and board in 3 Red Blast and 3 Edicts against Show and Tell while having a MD that has a 50%+ matchup against delvers, gobos, maverick, and control. Seems pretty damn good if you ask me.

I'm never banking on a single loam to win me games. There's a reason it's a one-of. If I see life from the loam in most matchups, its insane. If I don't see it, I don't care because my deck functions well without it, its just nice to have an engine like a one-of sylvan library to help grind out mirrors or other midrange matchups.

I can see your point about never really losing to liliana because she doesn't have an "I Win," ability on her but she facilitates winning by helping to control the board and your opponents hand. For instance, does deathrite shaman win games? Sometimes, he might do the final points of damage, but most of the time he helps put you into a good position to win like helping to control the board. Every card jund runs helps either control the board ala lili, wasteland, punishing fire combo, and abrupt decay or the grave yard with deathrite and sometimes scavenging ooze or the opponents hand with thoughtseize, hymn, and lili or your own resources with sylvan library and dark confidant.

Zulander: you post an insane amount about Jund from what I've seen in the past few pages, but how you can't see why liliana is good just boggles my mind. Even before the stupid legendary changes where I can cast two lili's in the same turn and make them discard twice or sac twice.

[Xtreme]

I agree on Liliana being good. Can anyone share their experiences with garruk relentless? Might be able to fit one in instead of a hymn or Liliana

[razvan]

Garruk is alright against a variety of decks. Miracles in particular doesn't have an easy time with him alongside the rest of your cards. Jund and other midrange decks sometimes come down to reusable resources, not to mention plays like against BUG and Jund:

Turn 1, Shaman
Turn 2, Kill their Shaman somehow
Turn 3, Garruk, Kill their Dark Confidant

He functions as a Bloodbraid Elf in a lot of situations, reflected by his mana, but he is not quite as aggressive, so generally he can only be good in slow games or statemates where everyone is playing Topdeck/Draw/Go and BBE's cascading into removal is not really fantastic.

I wouldn't maindeck him, and he really is only necessary if you have a lot of Miracles and such decks.

[zulander]

Zulander: you post an insane amount about Jund from what I've seen in the past few pages, but how you can't see why liliana is good just boggles my mind. Even before the stupid legendary changes where I can cast two lili's in the same turn and make them discard twice or sac twice.

I don't remember saying Lili wasn't good, I'm just never compelled to play more than 3 of her (and more realistically, more than 2). I play 2 and I plan on playing 2 for a while, I just don't think she's all that and a bag of chips, and in some meta's it may be okay to just board her in instead of play her in the main (although, that would be fairly rare and at that point jund may not be your best option).


As for Garruk, what Razvan said. He's better in a more control filled meta, and the fact that so many decks can just bolt him isn't very fun. If you're in a control filled meta then I'd suggest seriously thinking about also playing Huntmaster of the Fells as well, but that's just too cute imho.

[RedWrathCCG]

Thanks for the congrats

And yes, the Jittes were really good. I brought them in in the esper, merfolk and bug cascade games(unsure If I brought them in against Bug delver). Overall I was pleased with the sideboard as I happened to get the matchups I was expecting. My biggest concern going into the tournament was the lack of answers to Leyline of sanctity, but I couldnt figure out how to make that work. Maybe a maelstrom pulse instead of something? Not sure what I would cut though

Did you have access to Chains of Mephistopheles? Would you include them in your sideboard if you did?

Also, would you mind explaining how you sideboarded?

[IrishLegend]

I'm surprised this thread been so quiet as of til yesterday... Is this deck still preforming well for you guys? Another question for those of you still playing this deck is the PF version still better or are you going back to the non-PF version?

[Xtreme]

Did you have access to Chains of Mephistopheles? Would you include them in your sideboard if you did?

Also, would you mind explaining how you sideboarded?

The first thought about chains is that it would probably replace the choke. IMO you need all the help you can get against combo, and chains is most likely better against combo than choke is, while also doing a descent job against "jace + brainstorm"-decks. I havent played against omniclash so I cant say if choke is good there or not.

General thought about sideboarding: I took my friends advice about siding out hymns in grindy matchups( esper and shardless-bug that tournament) because you probably exchange resources and end up in a topdeckwar, where hymn is bad.

I didnt make notes, but this is to my best memory what I sided
Esper:
Out: A combination of Liliana and Hymn(Liliana bad against lingering souls)
in: 2 Jitte and choke

Only relevant target of REB is jace, not worth bringing in IMO

Merfolk:
out: some number of hymn + liliana, Sylvan library, 1 wasteland(on the draw)
in: 3 reb, plague, 2 jitte, lavamancer, choke

Bug-delver: Sorry, cant remeber anything else than bringing in choke. Lilianas stayed in because of fear for tombstalker

Bug cascade:
Out: Hymns,
In: Choke, 2 Jitte, reb

Hivemind:
Out: Aburpt decays, sylvan library, 3 liliana(kept 1 since he had griselbrand), maybe 1 wasteland
in: REBs, duresses, surgical extractions

[dave8]

I'm surprised this thread been so quiet as of til yesterday... Is this deck still preforming well for you guys? Another question for those of you still playing this deck is the PF version still better or are you going back to the non-PF version?

Chains of Mephistopheles is insane. Yesterday I tested it against Omnimaniac. It just wins games.

[Lighning Bebbi]

This thread seems to need some exhilaration... :)
Is there still anyone playing Jund?

I do! I played a tournament in Zurich (Switzerland) yesterday.
Think we were a few more than 32 Players. So we played 6 rounds of swiss and Top8.

Here is my list:

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Bayou
3 Badlands
3 Wasteland
4 Grove of the Burnwillows

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Bloodbraid Elf

2 Lightning Bolt
3 Punishing Fire
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach

2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Liliana of the Veil

Sideboard:
2 Nature's Claim
2 Engineered Plague
2 Thoughseize
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Thorn of Amethyst

And my results:
1) Mud 2:0
2) Canadian 2:1
3) Merfolk 2:1
4) Bug Delver 2:0
5) ID
6) ID

Top8) Bug Delver 2:0
Top4) ANT 2:0
Final) Omni Clash 2:1

We split prizes in the final but we played out for the Liga Points. So each of us got 1/2 Tabernacle, Volcanic Island and Plateau.
I was quite satisfied with this list - most of the match-ups just felt great.

If you have any questions on the list or suggestions for the list, let me know!

Regards, Bebbi