I would at least play 3 Liliana and 4 Hymn to Tourach. As Qweerios said, if we want to play BW, we have to use the strongest cards of this color combination. Hymn and Liliana are (very) good in matchups which we do not want to play (e.g. combo). Vindicate - since we have Liliana as well as Abrupt Decay (at least 3 times!) - can be dropped. And as you say the difference of BW and The Rock is marginal because of Deathrite Shaman, who is the way to go at the very moment.
I would play:
Discard:
4 Thougthseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
(3-4 Liliana)
Removal:
4 Swords
3-4 Abrupt Decay
(3-4 Liliana)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Library Manipulation:
2-3 Sensei's Divining Top
Core-Creatures:
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
3 Lingering Souls
Lands:
2 Swamps
1 Plains
3-4 Scrublands
2 Bayou (not more - it's just a green split)
8-9 Saclands (very important to shuffle with Top on board and you can shuffle away Tops as well)
4 Wastelands
Perhaps we should play more basics.
Mirrian Crusader and Hero of Bladehold look interesting. We should give them a try.
What about Sword of Fire and Ice or other additional equipment?
And more interesting, what about the sideboard?
2 Bayou can NOT support 4 Decay. You can disagree with this conclution, and waste some time to test.Originally Posted by miko
Not to mention any green spells make this no longer Deadguy Ale.
I also don't like just 2 equipment in the deck. Granted, that list plays Top, but I would play one more equipment.
Since Deadguy doesn't win fast you could very well cast Stoneforge Mystic as a squire. That's really bad. I would definitely recommend Sword of Fire and Ice. Shock and draw is huge plus we play some sort of fliers and lots of removal to help push the equipped creature through.
Yeah, I've seen people put lists that have Knight of the Reliquary and Goyf. That's no longer deadguy IMHO at that point. It's junk or rock. A fine deck but it's not Deadguy.
I cannot agree with you. People tend to be against changes for the reason, "that that is not the old deck I used to know".
I donīt link deck names with colors but with playstyle. Deadguy Ale for example is a aggro-controle deck, strong in mid-range and against creature based decks. If splashing green serves this concept I am willing to do so and still call it DGA.
Deadguy has always been a heavy discard deck with Wasteland and Dark Confidant to refil resources. Rock is more the midrange deck that has existed sense like tempest or so. with overall higher cc and mana acc. While modern has been on controlling the board with deed and creatures with resources tide to them sakura tribe elder, wall of blossom and baloths. Rock is a green based deck while deadguy is a blackbased deck.
Adding a couple of greenspells doesnt make the deadguy into rock.
Doesn't make it Deadguy either though. Anyway, don't really want to debate this.
Well, you brought it up.
I feel like that playing just BW for deadguy in a more grindy aggro control shell is not as effective as playing other BWx decks. I'm talking about playing esper stoneblade or the rock. I've been playing deadguy (just BW) for over a year now and it's still fun and solid as a deck, but I think that if you want play attrition-based games deadguy can only take you so far. In esper decks they have jaces and brainstorms to get their cards back, rock as sylvan library/tops and bobs. We have tops and bobs. I just think that they have more options at their disposal, but at the cost of having a shakier mana base.
In my opinion, if I were to play deadguy again, I would play the vial based decks. The deck that runs tidehollow sculler, phyrexian revoker, etc etc. I think that deck is absolutely bonkers because it's so much more aggressive and always pressures multiple threats each turn while destroying their hand/mana base as well. However, that deck is more volatile and can have those nut hands but also mulligans a lot worse. I think the only down side is that you don't get to play lingering souls :( that card is so good. If anyone has a recent vial-based deadguy list that they would like to share, that'd be great! I'd love to see what people have and what their SB is for that style of play.
True. That is why I added Deathrite Shaman. Having 8-9 Saclands is good as well.
Hello, I am new to Legacy and The Source. I just played Dead Guy with a green splash in my first competitive Legacy event over the weekend. I got crushed mostly due to my inexperience i believe, but here is my list. Any suggestions on cards or play methods would be more than appreciated. I should also mention that I am still on a relatively budget list.
Lands:
Bayou x1
Scrubland x2
Godless Shrine x1
Marsh Flats x4
Verdant Catacombs x4
Plains x1
Swamp x7
Wasteland x2
Creatures:
Deathrite Shaman x4
Dark Confidant x4
Stoneforge Mystic x4
Tidehollow Sculler x2
Hero of Bladehold x1
Instants and Sorceries:
Swords to Plowshares x4
Cabal Therapy x2
Inquisition of Kozilek x3
Hymn to Tourach x2
Abrupt decay x2
Lingering souls x3
Vindicate x1
Artifacts:
Umezawa's Jitte x1
Batterskull x1
Sword of Fire and Ice x1
Planeswalkers:
Liliana of the Veil x2
Sorin Lord of Innistrad x1
Sideboard:
Duress x1
Oblivion Ring x1
Cabal Therapy x2
Surgical Extraction x2
Perish x1
Engineered Plague x2
Enlightened Tutor x1
Zealous Persecution x1
Pithing Needle x1
Ensnaring Bridge x1
Rest in Peace x1
Relic of Progenitus x1
As I said, in my first tournament I got crushed. I got the by round one then proceeded to lose the next three rounds.
Round 1
By
Round 2: Miracles 0-2
I played against my friend who was playing UWr Miracles. Even though our games outside tournaments seem to go only about 40-60 in his favor I lost the first two games. The only notes that seemed relevant concerning these games were: "got Jaced." Usually if he sticks a Jace against me the game is over unless my board state can outrace unsummon. This is rare due to his accessibility to Terminus. My sideboard plan for game two(which went essentially the same way regardless) was:
Out: StP x4, Hero of Bladehold x1, DRS x2
In: Duress x1, Cabal Therapy x2, Pithing Needle x1, Enlightened Tutor x1, Surgical extraction x2
Round 3: Zombardments 0-2
He pretty much out raced, out removaled me, and in both games I ended up scooping once he landed his namesake enchantment. I cannot remember which game the most eventful plays occured but in one of the games I played a Tidehollow Sculler onto an empty board, he revealed Sculler, LS, and Bombardments. I took the Bombardments and proceeded to waste his only white source. He then top decked a fetch and then a swords to plowshares. One game I got myself two-for-oned because I forgot to play around the Cabal Therapy that he named SFM with. My sideboard plan for game two, which ended up being irrelevant for lacking of seeing any of the cards as well as not seeing any DRSs, went like this:
Out: Inquisition x3, Therapy x2, Hymn x2, Swamp -- Not sure if this is right, but discard seems bad against his deck so I went for it. The swamp is because I manage to flood myself frequently, which leads me to believe that I should cut a land.
In: RIP x1, E. Tutor, Engineered plague x2, Relic of Progenitus x1, Surgical x2, Zealous Persecution
Round 4: OmniTell 1-2
In game one and game three he was simply able to go off unopposed. Game two, which I managed to take, went how I expected a good game of DGA v. Combo to go. I cast hand disruption spells and killed him with Batterskull. The sideboard was something similar to:
Out: Sword of Fire and Ice x1, Jitte x1, SFM x1, StP x4,
In:Duress x1, Oblivion Ring x1, E. Tutor x1, Cabal Therapy x2, Surgical x2
The most disappointing part of the tournament was getting the by round one. I really enjoy Legacy thus far and just wanted to play, so missing out on round one was not ideal.
Hey Astrus,
just a few minor things.
Drop the Scullers. They are good, but not as exploitive as in the vial version. Add two Scrublands and a Bayou, drop the Godless Shrine. Add two Wastelands. Add at least 1 Liliana and decide between Sorin and Hero of Bladehold.
That all sound right. I was having a hard time deciding about sculler. All the other things you mentioned I planned on changing with time (and money). I think I like Sorin better as control has a harder time with him than Hero. Hero is also awful vs. Jace decks. Would sticking a second Sorin in instead be good, or should I just cut that slot all together?
What do you think is a suitable/cheap temporary replacement for scullers?
Also do you think that the Vial version is better? (I may have access to vials)
TBh just save up and get thoughtseizes nothing is as strong as them.
Do you think that Hymn to Tourach would be alright temporarily Instead of Sculler?
It's okay if you didn't do well this tournament, everyone has to start somewhere!
My initial suggestions to your deck list would be to cut down on the number of swamps you have and play at least 2 plains if you can. Also try to get wastelands as your main priority because they are just so good against any deck. You can still play the BW shockland if you're on a budget because most of the time it won't matter, unless you're playing against hyper aggressive decks. I would also add another GB shock (or bayou, if you have one :P) so that you dont have -close-to-dead- abrupt decays once they waste your only bayou.
The creature list you have is pretty solid, but if you're going to play tidehollow sculler I would first recommend you switch over to the vial verison as stated above, or if you want to play him but don't want to play vials at least play a set of it. Personally though I would just cut the 2 scullers in place of 2 more hymn to tourachs. Hymns are so powerful and everyone seems to underestimate this card, but always getting 2 for 1 is a good deal! I think that having 5 targeted discard and then 4 hymns along with 2 lilianas should be pretty good at keeping opponent's hands to a minimum. I'd like to make a note that if you're relatively new to playing legacy, it's pretty hard to get blind therapies accurately so I would either complete the set of inquisitions, or get thoughtseizes. I think that Sorin is more a SB card than being in the main 60, so I would put him in the SB. With that slot freed up you can replace that with either another vindicate or liliana.
As for your SB, I would definitely replace the duress with another enlightened tutor so that you can fetch for your key enchantments more frequently if you need them. Also since you already have 2 more therapies in the board I think having 8 targeted discard is too much, when you have hymns and lilianas. I would also try to get humility and ethersworn cannonist in the board if you are going for the e-tutor package because they are very relevant cards in combo match ups (humilty for snt, ethersworn for TES, ANT, SI, etc)
In the miracles match up, I would've brought in the oblivion ring for sure because they don't really have an answer to that if it resolves. You can use it to get Jace and ends up being one less to worry about. Post board miracles will generally side out most of their counterspells so bringing in the oring definitely helps. Your board doesn't have too much dedicated to any controlling/grindy match ups so I would suggest putting in another sorin in the board if you can make it fit!
Your boarding for zombardment was 100% correct, taking out the discard is generally what you want to do because most of the time they will get value out of it. I would've taken out the hymns instead of cabals so that I can at least try to blind cabal their stps or bombardment instead of randomly discarding a gravecrawler and bloodghast :( Obviously the etutor will be rip most of the time because that basically neuters the entire deck, but I guess you weren't lucky enough to get either of them. This match up shouldn't be too hard because we have lots of ways to win against them. rip kills them, plagues kill them, active jitte stops them, batterskull makes the game out of reach for them.
The Omnitell match up is very strange because it's either they have it or they don't. Bringing in all the discard seems correct while taking out the obvious dead cards. Liliana is a boss in this match up, she just annihilates the opponent like no other.
That's all I got for now, if you have any questions or discussions lemme know! Hope this feedback helps!
Oh and here's my list for reference if you need it :) I've moved on to playing the rock but I still have all the cards to assemble this deck if need be haha.
Lands:
2x Bayou
4x Marsh Flats
1x Plains
4x Scrubland
2x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
1x Karakas
22
Creatures:
4x Dark Confidant
4x Deathrite Shaman
3x Stoneforge Mystic
2x Hero of Bladehold
13
Planeswalkers:
4x Liliana of the Veil
4
Spells:
3x Thoughtseize
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Inquisiton of Kozilek
1x Umezawa's Jitte
3x Lingering Souls
2x Vindicate
1x Batterskull
2x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Hymn to Tourach
21
SB:
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Perish
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Pithing Needle
1x Rest in Peace
2x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1x Engineered Plague
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Humility
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
15
I have gotten screwed by having two plains fairly frequently, but I will test some more with one. Picking up and Overgrown Tomb, Sorin, and E Tutor should be do-able before The next Tournament I'm going to. I will switch in the Hymns for Scullers and regarding the therapies, I plan on practicing with them over the next month. I almost cut them because I also was not sure I was ready for them. I will put the 4th Inquisition in if i still don't feel the therapies by the next tournament.
Thanks for the in-depth reply. It helped a ton!
Ye they are fine but Thoughtseize and cabal therapy is in an other league of hymn atm. You want to he specific card not random, not pun inteded.
Lingering souls makes Cabal Therapy so much better then it was before lingering souls was in the deck. And Sorin is more then fine in the deck it has won me many games. The emblems do quite a bit when all our creatures are just 2/1 and 1/2 or 1/1 fliers. :P I do like sorin and hero split. Sorin is easier to cast then hero.
This. Everyone splashing green isn't playing Deadguy. Seriously, how fucking hard is this to figure out.
The advantages of B/w or W/b or even B/W over 3-colors are as follows
- No graveyard reliance allowing you to play the best yard hoser ever printed in Rest in Peace (or others like Relic)
- 2 color mana base means you can run 4+ basics making the deck almost Wasteland proof. It also gives space to run utility lands that can't be run in a 3-color configuration -- at least that can't be run without biting you in the ass during a 9 round tourney
- BB WW ... point two means if you want you can run spells requiring BB and WW and probably get away with it if you ratio properly and carefully fetch. The only other decks that can do this are the decks running 4 brainstorm to cheat potential mulligans into keeps and to see a higher ratio of lands compared to the actual number in the deck
- Hosers. 2 color allows you to run one sided Wrath of God in Perish / Nature's Ruin.
This isn't to say you can't run Deathrite shaman as even if you sharpie over his nug a man ability he's still pretty insane.
You can debate whether the constraints are worth these benefits but how hard do you have to look / research / think to really see the benefits?
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