[Deck] Elves Combo

[andrebonotto]

Hi guys,

Well, while we all wait for the finishing of the new Primer, I want to offer you hereby some piece of a different reading for the time being – a fresh tournament report to pass the time!

It was neither a big tournament nor did I have a great performance, but still, here it is…

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Last weekend I played at a small, 4-round, 16-player tournament.
.
I played Matt Nass’ list with few modifications:

-1x Fetch land / +1x Forest
-1x Gaea’s Cradle / +1x Crop Rotation (I played with 4x Cradle the last two tournaments, but felt a little hampered by having multiple Cradles in hand; Also, I missed the instant trick provided by CR)
-1x Priest of Titania / +1x Scavenging Ooze (I sided out PoT a lot, and also sided in Ooze a lot; since I expected some Dreadge, Reanimator, Burn and RUG, I felt that 1x Ooze MD would be good. Also, I think I was mulliganing too aggressively, maybe because I feared keeping hands that hand only the ‘aggro plan’, so I think Ooze should be a reasonable ‘backup’ to make me feel a little safer on the aggro route. For this last reason alone Ooze could probably be switched to Ezuri or even Archdruid, but the previous reasons still stand.)
-1x Regal Force / +1x Progenitus (I don’t even remember when it was the last time which I NO, GSZ, or even hardcast Regal Force; so I decided to try Prog. MD)

-2x Mindbreak Trap / +2x Duress (Traps were always discarded on the matchs in which they were needed; Also the extra discard could work against other combos as well – like SnT, which I was facing a lot; I don’t own nor plan acquiring Thoughseizes anytime soon, thus, Duress should do the job.)
-1x Qasali Pridemage / +1x Harmonic Sliver (I was playing Pridemage before, but now changed it to the Sliver for the latter is good vs. SnT, and is an expendable body to NO, after done it’s job)
-1x Thorn of Amethyst, -1x Sylvan Library / +2x Pithing Needle (against Lavamancer, Sharpshooter, Top, and random other things…)
-1x Dryad Arbor
-1x Progenitus
+1x Scavenging Ooze (another one to improve some MU’s already specified)
+1x Viridian Shaman (in general, against equipment)

RESULTS:

ROUND 1: vs. "Rw Burn " = 1-2
ROUND 2: vs. "SnT OmniHalls w/ Lab .Maniac" = 0-2
ROUND 3: vs. “UR Delver” (BYE*) = 2-0
ROUND 4: vs. “Mono W Knights(Rogue)” = 2-1

• W-L-D: 2-2
• Final standing: 8th


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MATCHES:

ROUND 1: vs. "Rw Burn" = 1-2

G1: I play some elves and prepare to NO > Behemoth, but he wipes my board with a maindeck Flamebreak and I can’t recover in time. LOSE

SB: IN: 1x Scavenging Ooze, 2x Pithing Needle, 2x Abrupt Decay / OUT: 1x Quirion Ranger, 2x Elvish Visionary, ?, ?

G2: I keep a hand with Ooze and a GSZ (that could get me access to Ooze #2). I play some elves while Goblin Guide keeps swinging. I eventually play Ooze #1 and pump him +2 to get out of Bolt range. But opponent plays 2x spells to get rid of him (this was a good trade on my favor, right?). Next turn I GSZ > Ooze #2, and pump him +2, again, out of bolt range. Ooze stabilizes the board and a turn or two later I am able to NO > Behemoth. WIN

G3: Terrible no-lands hands – I’m forced to mull to 4! (Forest, Cradle, Nettle Sentinel and NO). T1 I topdeck Nettle #2, play the first one and pass – and be Rift Bolts me. T2 I play Nettle #2, attack with the first and pass – and he Bolts me. I’m able to attack with both Nettle Sentinels on T3, but on this turn he plays Flamebreak and wipes my board! I keep drawing NOs and Cradles – both useless without any creature, which gives him enough time to take my life low enough with Goblin Guide and finishes me with more Bolts + Fireblast. LOSE
(Intrigued that I didn’t see any Lavamancers on any of the games, I ask my opponent about it and he tells me that, despite playing Fetch lands – which I saw G1 – he plays none of them. “The fetch lands are for my Plateaus, to play Lightning Helix MD and Disenchant on SB”, he says.)
0 - 1


ROUND 2: vs. “SnT OmniHalls w/ Lab .Maniac" = 0-2

G1: I play an elf or two. On EOT of my T2 he taps his Island and Ancient Tomb > Intuition > 3x Show and Tell. In response I do: . His T3 he casts SnT > Dream Halls > etc… = combo = win. LOSE

SB: IN: 4x Cabal Therapy, 2x Duress, 1x Gaddock Teeg, 1x Harmonic Sliver / OUT: 2x Quirion Ranger, 3x Elvish Visionary, 1x Heritage Druid, 1x Nettle Sentinel, 1x Scavenging Ooze

G2: I keep a 7-card hand with 2x Therapies, Nettle Sentinel and ????. T1 I play Therapy #1, it resolves and I name Brainstorm (it hits), and besides BS I see: 2x Island, Intuition, Omniscience, ?, T2: I cast Therapy #2 for Intuition (it hits), and I see that he now have Enter the Infinite. I also play an elf and flashback Therapy #1 for Omniscience (it hits). T3 I play two elves, flashback Therapy #2 > he, in response, Brainstorms. When my discard resolves, I don’t know what could I name, for he probably had hid Enter the Infinite, but I nonetheless name it. Of course I miss, for he had hid EtI, and I see Burning Wish, Daze and ?. I attack him with 1-2x elves for two or three turns, but he’s still at 6 life when he can combo and utilize his well-preserved EtI. LOSE
0 - 2


ROUND 3: BYE* (vs. “UR Delver”) = 2-0

*This guy was playing the tournament with proxies, allegedly without knowing that it was not legal, so he was disqualified. Still, he wanted to play just to pass time.

G1: I play some elves and keeps taking down his life, for he has no board presence, saving a GSZ to search for Ooze later, but it’s not needed (He complains about not drawing into any ‘business’). WIN

SB: IN: 2x Abrupt Decay, 2x Pithing Needle, 1x Scavenging Ooze / OUT: 2x NO, 1x Progenitus, 1x Crop Rotation, 1x Elvish Visionary,

G2: He has Lavamancer, and my game progress slowly, since he keeps killing some elves. But that’s OK, since I have GSZ for Ooze. After wasting, on G1, one or two Bolts on my elves, because he wasn’t aware of what my Symbiote could do, he lands a Pithing Needle naming Symbiote. I eventually GSZ > Ooze, and quickly make it out of Bolt range. He tries to bait me to use Ooze to block his Lavamancer and later die to Bolt, but I do not fall for this. I don’t remember If I ever needed Ooze #2, but despite he playing Needle#2 for Ooze, my Ooze was big enough to secured me the win. WIN
1 - 2


ROUND 4: vs. “Mono White Knights (Rogue*)” = 2-1

*This guy was playing an ‘improvised/adapted’ T2/Modern(?) deck, which should not offers me much trouble, but turns out that some misplays on my side made the things harder.

G1: He plays Studant of Warfare, keeps leveling him up and attacking. Since I had Glimpse in hand, besides attacking him once with Nettle Sentinel, I play some elves and prepare for the combo, which happens on T4. I, then, GSZ > Behemoth, that alone does the 18 damage necessary to kill him. WIN

SB: IN: 1x NO, 1x Viridirian Shaman (I assume he plays equipment, like Maverick/DnT), 1x Harmonic Sliver / OUT: 2x NO, 1x Progenitus, 1x Crop Rotation, 1x Elvish Visionary,

G2: He starts with SoW and levels him up a bit, until he plays a Knight Exemplar. I play some elves, keep cool, and prepare for the NO > Progenitus plan, which happens on T4, but I’m already at low life. He then enchant one of his creatures with Armored Ascension (?! where are the equipments ?) and leaves me on 4 life. I attack with Progenitus, leave him on 9 and thinks. I then play an Elvish Visionary and draw – it’s NO! *hit! Had I played Visionary before attacking him, I would be able to NO > Behemoth and end the game on this turn. What can I do now? Luckly, in time I remember having the sliver, so I sac. an elf to NO > Harmonic Sliver > destroy his Armored Ascension, in order to chump block his knights next turn and survive. He then topdecks, laughs and shows me – Day of Judgement! All the board is wiped, except for his SoW, which was indestructible due to his (now dead) Knight Exemplar. He attacks with SoW and leaves me on 1 life. I need to draw chump blockers; I draw a Crop Rotation. He attacks next turn again; I use CR to fetch for Dryad Arbor and gain another turn. Next turn I draw blank and I’m dead. LOSE

G3: I keep a hand with 2x NO, and I’m able to cast NO#1 on T4, despite knowing that there’s a possibility of he wrathing on his turn. NO finds Progenitus, thinking that this way at least his Paths to Exile are dead against my bomb. Turns out he has, indeed, the DOJ, and wraths everything. – but this time I was a little less preoccupied, for I had NO#2. Next turn I Crop Rotation > Cradle > NO > Prog. WIN
2 - 2


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SOME THOUGHTS:

1. I think I have made a reasonable good guess on the metagame – at least on the part that concerned my pairings. But still, I did a poor performance, due to still making some not optimal plays on the game. There’s clearly room to improvement.

2. How often do you guys keeps hands that does not have Glimpse, NO, nor Visionary+Symbiote (i.e., just simple elves beatdown), if you do it at all?

3. When paired against Burn, would you trade 2x of your elves for his Goblin Guide? I didn’t want to do that trade, but if I had done it on the early game, I think that it could have spared me 4 life points, which would be enough for me to gain another turn and beat my opponent on R1G3 (he ended at only 4 life).

4. On R2G2, was it a mistake to flashback Therapy #2 at the time I did it? Should I have waited more to do it? Talking with my opponent after the game, he claims he thought so. What would have you done in my place?

5. On R4G3, should I deffinitely have ‘sandbagged’ NO#1 until after the wrath? Since it was a ‘rogue’ list he was playing, I risked NO’ing early assuming that the DOJ might be just a random 1-of or 2-of max, and if he does find it, I would still had NO#2. What would have you done?


That’s it. Thanks for the reading, and I hope to hear your feedback.

[igri_is_a_bk]

I made top 16 at Saint Louis and tried to keep decent notes of my matches. I'll write up a report when I have a free night.

[danyul]

Awesome! Congrats on the finish. I look forward to reading your report.

IRT the primer - it's coming along nicely. I keep thinking of new stuff to add but I think I can put together a finished product in the next couple days. I have a lot of information and the hardest part is just trying to organize all of it in a way that makes sense.

@andrebonotto
I typically wouldn't keep a dude-heavy hand without any spell action at all, but if its really fast then sometimes it's okay. Being on the Aggro plan isn't terrible depending on what your opponent is playing. Also against Burn I would just try to race them. Trading for a Goblin Guide wouldn't be my play of choice. But you said he had main deck board wipes so that sounds like a bad day regardless. I'll have to look at your other questions a bit later. But playing Therapy and dodging Wraths are all contextual decision points. It's hard to give you solid advice without being able to stare into your opponent's eyes for the soul read.

[Koby]

@danyul - can you put up a section regarding the use of Natural Order in the list? I am aware that right now NO is popular, but it's not the only way to build the deck.

[danyul]

Sure. You just want like a blurb about the recent use of NO? And maybe arguments for/against its inclusion? Stuff like that?

[Koby]

Sure. You just want like a blurb about the recent use of NO? And maybe arguments for/against its inclusion? Stuff like that?

Yep; enough to at least answer the question: "is Natural Order required to play in this deck? [/I don't own that card, how else can I build my Elves deck?]"

[Dice_Box]

Thar rocks in this. Had a moment tonight, my opponent brainstormed. "Oh you Brainstormed? Take 6 damage." Everyone at the table behind burst out laughing saying it was the best thing to hear.

Also as much as I love this deck as it is, how do people feel it would play with say 2 beck in it? The mana will most an arm and a leg but I think it would add some resilience to counterspells and a possible increase to the odds of comboing out.

Also, question for the field, Does anyone feel like we should run more Birchlore Rangers? I always find myself looking for them on the table. Not for color fixing but as a mini Heritage if I do not have one out.

[Tangente]

Also, question for the field, Does anyone feel like we should run more Birchlore Rangers? I always find myself looking for them on the table. Not for color fixing but as a mini Heritage if I do not have one out.

Actually I do. Now I am testing two Birchlore Rangers (instead of one Llanowar Elves) and it seems good. I like the fact that if I have Nettle Sentinel on battlefield then all my elves are turned into Llanowar Elves with haste, metaphorically speeking. And color fixing is also very good side effect.

[igri_is_a_bk]

I'll take the extra tool in Viridian Shaman over another Birchlore any day.

[Julian23]

I've also been eying the 2nd Birchlore Ranger...as well as the 3rd Llanowar Elves. I don't know, I want all the acceleration I can get without cutting the bombs.

[Dice_Box]

I'll take the extra tool in Viridian Shaman over another Birchlore any day.

I agree with the thought here, I myself run a main Zealot, but I just feel that the Birchlore adds a kind of smoothness to the deck. More than once I have looked down at my Quirion and wished it was a Birchlore. Now I am not saying remove the "Toolbox". As a long time goblin player I know how useful it is you have answers to situations that arise in play, but I do feel like, if I personally look at my opening hand, I feel much better if I see a Birchlore that a toolbox card.

Now if we are talking game two that is different, after siding your after different things. But that does not change that in your opening you still want the smoothest possible run. Having 6 or so "Heritage" effects (personally I want 7) really can help. The other thing is that if you get one it your opening hand and no Llanowar, its ok, your second turn drop will still help accelerate your deck.

Granted I have been wrong twice now about Pro and Hoof, but on this, it just suits my play style to have them there. Maybe I am wrong about it but I feel Birchlore is not a one off in this deck. Two is better, maybe even more.

[Milob86]

Has anyone considered playing bane fire? We have the birchlore rangers to give us the 1 red and then play it for 20. It's uncounterable and can help with the blue. No?

[Dice_Box]

Banefire? Yes, I run it and one of the other decks locally does. It is a good sideboard card but its a dead draw if it is not lethal most of the time. I would say that the card has it's uses but its not always going to be the best answer to a situation. Also it is not going to help that much against blue. If they have a counter spare, chances are you're not going to get Glimpse off in the first place.

As for using Birchlore, I run a Taiga and Ruric Thar. Now that is a combo I like. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

[Lemnear]

If you glimpse-combo and draw your deck, adding 30+ mana in the process it doesn't really matter if you kill with Emrakul, Hoof or Banefire.

Fact is that Hoof is the card which is the most useful outside of glimpse combo. If the opponent can counter your spell(s), they will counter Glimpse and not your Finisher.

[igri_is_a_bk]

Tournament report from STL: click

[th3 w1z4rd]

If you glimpse-combo and draw your deck, adding 30+ mana in the process it doesn't really matter if you kill with Emrakul, Hoof or Banefire.

Fact is that Hoof is the card which is the most useful outside of glimpse combo. If the opponent can counter your spell(s), they will counter Glimpse and not your Finisher.

Not necessarily, if they know you're running Hoof as your wincon. BUG for example can let you draw your deck, counter Hoof, take their turn, and drop Pernicious Deed or Perish or something. You lose. I've done this. Emrakul gives no such outs. plus since my list is so much better at producing mana, what with Priests and Archdruids, I often just play Emrakul without comboing and win.

[.Ix]

You can get around that by playing NO when it is lethal in the Glimpse chain, with enough mana free to keep Glimpsing if it's countered. If it gets countered, continue until you can NO again. That way, even if you draw the Hoof, you'll still draw out their counters before finally hardcasting it for the kill.

[Koby]

You can get around that by playing NO when it is lethal in the Glimpse chain, with enough mana free to keep Glimpsing if it's countered. If it gets countered, continue until you can NO again. That way, even if you draw the Hoof, you'll still draw out their counters before finally hardcasting it for the kill.

Yep that's enough justification for me. If you can do all that and burn 8 mana for 2 NO's, you can certainly cast Emrakul. Thanks for clearing this up.

[.Ix]

Yep that's enough justification for me. If you can do all that and burn 8 mana for 2 NO's, you can certainly cast Emrakul. Thanks for clearing this up.

Of course you can do all that. The situation given is a Glimpse combo turn. It wouldn't matter which win con you're running as long as you're in the combo turn, but Emrakul is completely dead outside the combo turn unless you're running priest effects. Isn't this exactly what everyone was ranting about in the last page? NO/Hoof is better, priest builds that can cast Emrakul are outdated, etc.

[Lemnear]

Not necessarily, if they know you're running Hoof as your wincon. BUG for example can let you draw your deck, counter Hoof, take their turn, and drop Pernicious Deed or Perish or something. You lose. I've done this. Emrakul gives no such outs. plus since my list is so much better at producing mana, what with Priests and Archdruids, I often just play Emrakul without comboing and win.

So you justify running a total brick that Emrakul is outside the Glimpse-Combo by constantly misplaying NO, GSZ and Craterhoof? Awesome dood.

Of course you can do all that. The situation given is a Glimpse combo turn. It wouldn't matter which win con you're running as long as you're in the combo turn, but Emrakul is completely dead outside the combo turn unless you're running priest effects. Isn't this exactly what everyone was ranting about in the last page? NO/Hoof is better, priest builds that can cast Emrakul are outdated, etc.

That all we're talking about for pages. People mix together the NO Nettle/Hertiage combo builds and the Priest/Archdruid/Emrakul builds and create scenarios out of winterwonderland.