[Deck] TinFins 3: Return of the Onion Burst

[Holly]

Honestly I don't see the need for a transformational sideboard anyway since this deck is capable of fighting through hate rather well.

[Koby]

That said, I think a good plan against RIP specifically is to play 4 Helm of Obedience. Golly gee whiz Batman, RIP is symmetrical!

[.dk]

That said, I think a good plan against RIP specifically is to play 4 Helm of Obedience. Golly gee whiz Batman, RIP is symmetrical!

Yeah, I was testing that for awhile, along with E-tutors a some of our own RIP. Seemed a bit too mana intensive to be viable.

[catmint]

Honestly I don't see the need for a transformational sideboard anyway since this deck is capable of fighting through hate rather well.

No, the deck cannot fight through hate well. Despite many people falling in love with the speed and the fancyness of the kill (including me) and some people thinking this deck would get Griselbrand banned (lol), the main reason why the deck did not show up good results are the consistency issues and the disability to fight through a meta full of disruption. Compare it to traditional Reanimator, show variants and ANT - TinFins is not that strong.

The biggest achievements of the deck are establishing the name and creating an unjustified hype about its strength.

[Richard Cheese]

We can fight through each specific piece of hate easily, the real problem is the proliferation of excellent graveyard hate over the past few sets. We now have creatures, enchantments, artifacts, and free instants to deal with, and being able to combat all of them out of the board without watering down the maindeck has proven extremely difficult. The fact that RiP and DRS have found their way into the maindeck of tier 1 lists is also a real paradigm shift from just a couple years ago. We're suffering from the same issue as Dredge where people actually have a chance in game 1, and have much more streamlined boarding plans for 2/3...that soft underbelly that used to be graveyard hate has grown some scales.

[Koby]

No, the deck cannot fight through hate well. Despite many people falling in love with the speed and the fancyness of the kill (including me) and some people thinking this deck would get Griselbrand banned (lol), the main reason why the deck did not show up good results are the consistency issues and the disability to fight through a meta full of disruption. Compare it to traditional Reanimator, show variants and ANT - TinFins is not that strong.

The biggest achievements of the deck are establishing the name and creating an unjustified hype about its strength.

I disagree. The deck is powerful and can go deep into a tournament. Both SCG T8 finishes are an example of that, as well as my Day 2 in BoM. Are there issues? Certainly - RUG Delver is a weak matchup that needs to be addressed still. I think the deck is significantly easier to play than other storm combo decks, and it is scary fast. That should be reason enough to not discount it as "hype".

[cogitoergosum]

@Koby, I still think submerge is a very viable answer to the RUG match-up if you are expecting a prevalence of it in your meta. The timewalk aspect of it has done wonders in testing for buying me the time to find the necessary pieces to protect my combo and go off.

[Koby]

@Koby, I still think submerge is a very viable answer to the RUG match-up if you are expecting a prevalence of it in your meta. The timewalk aspect of it has done wonders in testing for buying me the time to find the necessary pieces to protect my combo and go off.

By that logic, Chain of Vapor is just as fine and more versatile. My hesitation is boarding this in when I already need to bring in Silence too. I don't think boarding out 6 cards is viable in this matchup. I really need to test this matchup in depth.

[cogitoergosum]

The difference being that CoV costs mana, as well as does not timewalk by putting the card on top of the RUG library, a big and relevant tempo swing overall. Anyway, just my thoughts. CoV is still my favorite bounce spell, especially because of the neat tricks you can do by using it on yourself.

[eriktyvollk]

I know that it has been stated that we are always the beatdown, against Rug I have always taken more of a controlling role and have never lost a match to Rug the more mana we can develop against them the better also just like playing ant against them I board in another tendrils to be able to mini tendrils to not die and keep the game moving.

[Koby]

I know that it has been stated that we are always the beatdown, against Rug I have always taken more of a controlling role and have never lost a match to Rug the more mana we can develop against them the better also just like playing ant against them I board in another tendrils to be able to mini tendrils to not die and keep the game moving.

Maybe you can expand on that a bit more? I found the match to be very dynamic and depend more on draws from either side than specific cards. Perhaps my last memory of Bazaar of Moxen tournament was biased since I was fatigued and underrested. This is definitely one matchup I want to be very certain of when I'm piloting Tin Fins next.

[Richard Cheese]

Regarding the RUG matchup, I was curious to see what they were boarding these days and holy hell has anyone used the "compare" feature on TCDecks? The good news is that at least based recent finishes, it looks like the deck is dropping most of it's sideboard graveyard hate. I see a Grafdigger's cage and a Tormod's crypt and that's about it.

[eriktyvollk]

So when I have played against rug probably 10+ matches with this deck (I know that is not huge numbers) I have just been very patient with my discard and gitaxian probes and do my best to bait the forces. Daze has never been a huge issue if you wait a couple turns. (turn 4 or 5) as the only proactive disruption they have is wasteland (Pre-Board) obviously they get some draws that put a lot of pressure on you but you should know there hand and how to play around what they may be holding. The matchup is even better now as they have cut stifle again for the most part. After board it gets trickier because they normally board in some number of surgicals or graffdiggers cages but they normally board out some number of dazes/fire/ice. And I only board in my silences and another tendrils to try to mini tendrils them to buy more time or set up a emrakul alpha strike. I have been told by a lot of people I play against and test with that I play the deck conservatively and my build certainly reflects it with 2 basics in it. But Rug just seems to me like a game of patience with this deck instead of trying to all in them. Silence is so clutch against them because a lot of the times you go for it with silence they are damned if they do damned if they don't. I hope this makes some sense?

[Acclimation]

In regards to fighting through hate, I find that the combination of Silence+Bounce effects are really all I need out of the sideboard; the mainboard discard is also very helpful. Even then, we're so fast that sometimes the t1 deathrite shaman can't touch us, leaving only Force, Surgical, and Mindbreak Trap as the things I worry about seeing, all of which Silence helps combat.

As per RUG, that match-up is something I've been meaning to test more, that match is rough as hell and so far I've just been getting lucky. I know that a lot of those lists are dropping GY hate since Dredge is such a piss-poor match that it's better to hope to dodge than it is to attempt to make a shitty match okay at best.

[.dk]

In regards to fighting through hate, I find that the combination of Silence+Bounce effects are really all I need out of the sideboard; the mainboard discard is also very helpful. Even then, we're so fast that sometimes the t1 deathrite shaman can't touch us, leaving only Force, Surgical, and Mindbreak Trap as the things I worry about seeing, all of which Silence helps combat.

As per RUG, that match-up is something I've been meaning to test more, that match is rough as hell and so far I've just been getting lucky. I know that a lot of those lists are dropping GY hate since Dredge is such a piss-poor match that it's better to hope to dodge than it is to attempt to make a shitty match okay at best.

Yes, I agree with this. We can fight through hate early in the game decently enough - as the game goes longer the worse our prospects get. That said, Silence doesn't get there against those Faerie Macabres (i got got by those a couple times).

The lack of GY hate in RUG I think is a combination of dredge being terrible, and Deathrite Shaman decks keeping traditional reanimator in check.

[Richard Cheese]

Board in Wall of Denial, beat format.

[Koby]

Board in Wall of Denial, beat format.

*grumblegrumble* Stupid Liliana *grumble*

[Richard Cheese]

*grumblegrumble* Stupid Liliana *grumble*

Just use Shallow Grave whenever you need a blocker.

[.dk]

I'll only run Wall of Denial if I can figure out how to run Doran too. Until then, NO WAY.

Doran FTdubs.

[Koby]

I'll only run Wall of Denial if I can figure out how to run Doran too. Until then, NO WAY.

Doran FTdubs.

I think we could our Man-plan Man for the BUwg versions :P