Good players, luck, and the fact it doesn't have blue. The duals aren't used in many other decks, it's a high skill level deck to play well, and it's quite expensive.
I think if enough people were actually playing it, you'd see way more Top 8's.
-Matt
I'm itching to try stoneforge + glissa but I'm not sure of what to cut, really. Would it be wise to skip tarmogoyves?
I feel like Goyf is not needed, I play only two + two mystics. Could play 4 goyf, but want to diversify my threats.
Short answer: it does not play a broken one cc instant.Originally Posted by blindspotxxx
Long answer: rock decks have many iterations and the red and blue versions are more popular at the moment. Blue versions get jace and brainstorm while the red versions get lightning bolt and blood braid elf. While white gives us swords and knight of the reliquary the other colors have better and more versatile card advantage and selection in addition to the cards that the BG color offers.
Playing white can leave us on the back foot in many matchups but when built and played properly, correct bears and white cards, the deck can roll with the best of them.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
i am really positively surprised how lively this thread has gotten over the last few days i was off...... last thing i remembered was me posting a sample list on how i would use glissa in a rock shell.....
after 4 days i am like
i had to read 2 whole pages of posts
either way, i am very happy some picked up this thought and maybe this fabulous deck will see more play again
sadly i did not get to test the glissa list this week because i got ill on my trip, and was in bed for 3 days,.... well shit happens
that said, i am really looking forward to hearing on everyone testings with glissa
sdmatt allready tested it and found the same thing as myself..... in the creaturematchups she ROCKs
as allready mentioned if you are using glissa and maybe some EE main the need for Deed in the sideboard is not anymore.... in my case it opens up 2 slots.... my question is how i should use them
MD: no Lingering souls
2 glissa
2 GSZ
2 EE
1 Jitte
2 divining tops
2 liliana of the veil
rest is a standard rock shell
SB
fixed slots: 9
2-3 extirpate ( + 0-1 nihil spellbomb)
1 life from the loam
1 jitte
2 golgari charm
2 gaddock teeg
open slots: 6
2 (formerly deed)
3 hatebears
1 unknown
my question is what i should use in these 6 slots depending on the various metas (tempo, aggro-midrange, controll, aggro-controll, storm, show&tell variants)
possible hatebears are the following
tidehollow sculler (additional handdisruption + artifact creature)
Thalia (first striker, legendary, slows opponents more then us)
ethersworn canonist ( artifact creature, disrupts elves, storm, and also snapcaster)
phyrexian revoker ( artifact creature, needle on legs for walkers, LED, sneak attack, equipment, other bothersome stuff)
vampire hexmage ( first striker, planeswalkers worst nightmare :P and allways comes down before a walker)
more teegs
scavenging ooze
any other suggestions???
right now i really do not know what to use, specially if i do not want to use lingering souls (STILL do not like them)
thanks guys for all the awesome talk in this thread lately and for all your help and feedback
I tried Glissa as a two-off and found her hard to cast sometimes. Wasteland and Karakas are not her friend. She also requires you to have double green pretty early. She is a house in creature matchups, but her recurring ability seemed not too overwhelming, because Explosives would hit myself pretty hard, too.
I don't think glissa works in anything but as a 1-of in a gsz package.
And up till now it's being great. It's just a matter of when you are going to cast her, that's one benefit of the zenith pack.
I don't see explosives hurting a the rock deck since we primarily win via disruption ans (usually) 1 or 2 threats beating face. Plus explosives are selective in their removal, unlike pernicious deeds.
On 2 more related notes: we must not fear wasteland. Don't forget that it is delaying our opponents as well as us. Also, I tested the gsz pack with glissa + sfm pack and I had to forfeit it. Next week I'll be trying a different list and I'll let you know my findings.
Glissa last night was a little bit disappointing, and at times when I was GSZ on 3, I was getting Knight. I don't think she's bad at all, I think there's metas where you want her, and others where you don't. I think to fully maximize her usefulness you would want to be running 2-3 Glissa, some GSZ, 2 Executioner's Capsule, 2 EE, and Crypt/Nihil Spellbombs in the board, and maybe even some Jittes.
I'm going to a tournament on Sunday, so I'll see if I end up playing her or the Ooze.
-Matt
I think that this is certainly a very reasonable deck to play at a tournament and expect to win. Really, there are two major things that I think of whenever this question comes up.
1. The erroneous belief that only blue decks are good and are the only ones that win tournaments.
2. Legacy has a whole bunch of archetypes. The number is so large that it is impossible to prepare for all of them. Some of them are fringe strategies, others just house cards that are too expensive for the deck to be adopted widely. Still, they can still smash through unprepared opponents: Etched Champion does some work against inbred blue decks. The sheer number of playable decks is what attracts people to Legacy, there are a lot of reasonable decks and probably some from Magic's yesteryear that some players love. They play and tune these decks forever. You only need look around the threads on this site to see this phenomenon in action. People aren't going to pick up and play a different deck than they're already playing, the one they already love. Coupled with the fact that Legacy is an expensive format to start switching up decks and you have the situation we're in right now.
"We are goblinkind, heirs to the mountain empires of chieftains past. Rest is death to us, and arson is our call to war."
We can only respect the words of someone who goes by Amon Amarth
Also, matt:
On the glissa issue you are right, that´s what I meant on my last post - the gsz package lets you choose wich creature suits you best in each situation, and it´s good to have 1 glissa arount to be fetched if needed. I tried to createa the rock deck based on her, and didn´t like it, however as a means of stalling and beating face unpunished, I found her pretty good.
I ran on a few decks with chalice maindeck, so I´m also throwing a qasali on the board. I´ll test it all during this week.
Hello matt, due to busy times, plus I'm back in speed cubing (3x3x3) I failed to post here, btw that is my deck I used in our recent major legacy tourney with an error in posting in the council my deck doesn't have 3 lingering souls to have a 60 cards MD. The SB is kinda anticipated in our meta, lots of Snt variants, ANT, midrange decks, UW(x) variants. To complete my post here's my tourney report:
R1 vs RUG delver: 2-0
R2 vs omnitell: 2-1
R3 vs punishing nic fit: draw
R4 vs punishing mavs: draw
R5 vs dark mavs: draw
R6 vs RUG delver: 2-0
R7 vs UWb stoneblade: 2-0
I hate myself pushing my matches against fair decks it is very grindy plus I dont have some cards to break the stalemate like planeswalker (elspeth, sorin. etc) deeds is not enough.
On the topic seem's everybody is using glissa which is decent creature I might try using her also but totally rebuild a new list from the one I was using. And also people talking here about dark depths unfortunately I gave away my DD package (DD+hexmage+marit lage token)
Hey guys,
I was testing with a bunch of people today with the new glissa build and I gotta say I'm pretty impressed. This is the first time that I got to try her since everyone's been talking about it because I've been so busy with work and other commitments. I got to play against junkblade (more like dead guy with green, but it's pretty heavy green I'd say), Maverick, deathblade and merfolk.
This is the list I ran today just for playtesting:
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
3 Marsh Flats
1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Bayou
1 Savannah
2 Scrubland
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor 23
1 Glissa, the Traitor
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Dark Confidant
3 Tarmogoyf 15
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Lingering Souls
2 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sylvan Library
2 Engineered Explosives 22
SB:
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Vampire Hexmage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Golgari Charm
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
I know the SB looks a little messy and I still plan on ironing it out. I'm probably going to cut a lingering souls from the main to add the 3rd gsz back to main. However, lingering souls is just -so- good against planeswalkers. At first I thought playing LS without equipment was really bad but in testing they are obsoletely amazing. Then I'd also cut Glissa from the board because I found her to be pretty good as a one-of. I don't know if it's because I play her late but whenever I resolve her she barely leaves the field because they've already blown all their stps and decays on my bobs/goyfs/knights. I think she's a pretty good trump card.
With the 2 extra slots, I'd probably want 2 humilities so I can combat snt. I don't have humilities in the first place is because my meta doesn't really play snt (thankfully) but it's always good to be prepared.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can improve my board? Or if I should go 2 LS and 3 gsz / or / 3 LS and 2 gsz. I'm just trying to cover all the basis so lemme know if I missed anything. Thanks!
I think humility hurts you pretty bad and maybe the card you would want against s&t is oblivion ring.
Also with 2 explosives main, I would easily cut the golgari charms.
With discard and teeg, do you need the thalias?
Why are the walkers on the sideboard? In wich maches would you bring them?
I haven't tried oblivion ring nor humility against snt (don't know anyone that pilots that deck) so I'll definitely look into both options.
My reasoning for golgari charms is to be able to put them in against aggro decks (like elves and goblins) because ee is too slow to keep up with them. Also, the enchantment removal can be useful in certain MU if you have nothing else to bring in. Also, the regeneration clause was surprisingly useful when I wiped the field of 2 drops with ee while keeping my goyf and bob alive :D
Since I only have 5 targeted discard in the main (3 seizes and 2 cabals), I think that it's necessary for me to have thalias because my deck's configuration is fairly weak to combo decks. Not to mention thalia's are also a house against esper stoneblade / deathblade / miracle variants.
The 2 sorins are in the side for the grindy match ups because I don't want them to clog up my main. Sorins are just so good against decks like stoneblade and miracles because against stoneblade he can effectively protect himself from ground beats but clique would still be able to get through. Against miracles they just have no way of dealing with a resolved walker unless they draw the one-of clique and/or venser... or miracle for x amount. -_-
@ zeph:
your list is pretty much the same as mine now :D (well aside of my 2 lilianas MD)
i tested the list sdmatt suggested on the all-in take on glissa and it was horrible.... most of the time i was not able to cast any of my 3 glissas, so i came to the conclusion that glissa is only playable in a GSZ shell, and in a GSZ shell we only need her as a 1-off.
in that shell she is quite good, allthough i use MD jitte and SB EE, but either way she either is removed very fast, and leaves bob or knight alive or she rolls over the whole board alone if the opponent blew his removal for anything else.
i also tried some other cards in the sideboard lately
one of the being phyrexian revoker, and he is actually quite awesome, really i was surprised on how much impact he had on the board everytime i landed him.
negating LED, Batterskulls (partly), opposing jitte, sneak attack, planeswalker, and whatever else you want him to screw with
reguarding the sideboard, i would never ever leave my house again without those golgari charms, they are awesome, and i would never suggest cutting them
but i am curious why u use a second glissa in your sideboard, what is your reasoning about that?
Revoker is a great card and the it does catch all everything including LED (which is great for us) but I'm always squeamish about playing it cause we're already so creature heavy, so it's prolly not going to stay on the field long. I used to run pithing needle cause it hits everything that revoker hits, less LED and it's more 'resilient' in a sense that it doesn't die to creature removal. If i was running jittes MD I would probably want revoker though just as another body to carry it if worse comes to worse.
I agree completely with golgari charm, the card is just too insane.
The reasoning behind my 1 of glissa and 1 gsz was just to test her in matches. I wanted to draw her/gsz for her more frequently and if the first one ate removal I'd have another. From yesterday's testing I can come to the same conclusion as you. In a gsz build she's only good as a one-of tutorable creature (similar to ooze) because having multiples in your just makes you feel bad about yourself. Also, her artifact recurring ability is not that relevant and I see it has more of a bonus on top of the 3 mana you're paying for first strike and deathtouch. There's really no point in building artifacts around her cause then you're just going to dilute the deck too much. I was able to recur EE twice to wipe the board of 2 drops and 3 drops, while bouncing glissa with my own karakas against mav though. :D It felt pretty good.
Anyways, to summarize the 1 glissa and 1 gsz were just flex spots that I wanted to take out and try (usually they'd be humilities but I'm looking into other options as well on what to board in against sneak and show)
I got Revoker'd quite a bit this weekend, and it wasn't fun for me. They seem to always pick Deathrite or Knight, which isn't fun.
I went 4-3 in a 72 man tournament, losing to Combo Elves' nut-draw with Craterhoof twice (double discard their Natural Order, he rips the third...); lost in 2 to Death and Taxes with me drawing crap game 1 and him having triple Mirran Crusader game 2 after a Cataclysm; and the third loss was to Aluren when I just didn't draw one of my 7 cards to bring in. I won against BW tokens, Deathblade, and BW Stoneblade.
Suffice to say, Deed was very good in my matches when I drew it. Charm was also very handy. Tower of the Magistrate was MVP against all the blade variants. Vampire Hexmage was also EXCELLENT due to the first strike and blowing out Jaces (and one time, an Aether Vial at a critical point). The Ooze in the main was good when I needed it, and Glissa would have be fine if I would have gotten it the same time as Ooze (except Ooze shined in the Aluren match).
Overall, I liked my board as well. Has game against most of the format. I haven't tried Revokers in my board in a while. It might be worth testing again. The only thing I don't like is the fact it's a 2/1 that's pretty fragile.
My sideboard:
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Life from the Loam
1 Tower of the Magistrate
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Ethersworn Cannonist
2 Golgari charm
2 Pernicious Deed
-Matt
what were your expieriences with canonist?
canonist woud have been the next hatebear i wanted to test out, because it helps in the combomatchups (including elves) and even in the stoneblade and esperblade mathup, preventing them from gaining CA from a snapcaster which is huge
at the moment i am torn between EE and Deed in the board simply because i want that one-off glissa to gain as much value as possible, but probably i should stick with Deed as it has a bigger impact then EE
what are your thoughts on it?
I wish I had deeds to test :( I can never find them in my local area...
Pernicious deed seems much more flexible than engineered explosives since you can just keep it there and not have it set at a certain cmc cost. That kinda keeps the opponent guessing on what you're going to do it with it. EE on the other hand is more restrictive cause you can't change the cmc of the targets, but it can be casted off of wastelands (if that matters). EE can also be recurred with glissa. I think if decks are running glissa then it'd be good to have at least 1 EE somewhere in the 75. If the deck isn't running glissa it's probably better to run deed.
Hi guys, I'm just sharing the list I tested this week as I said I would.
discards:
4 thoughtseize
3 hymn to tourach
removals:
4 swords to plowshares
3 abrupt decay
threats:
4 deathrite shaman
3 dark confidant
2 tarmogoyf
3 knight of the reliquary
1 glissa, the traitor
3 lingering souls
card selection:
3 green sun's zenith
1 sensei's divining top
1 sylvan library
planeswalkers:
2 liliana of the veil
lands:
1 forest
1 swamp
1 maze of ith
1 horizon canopy
1 dryad arbor
1 bojuka bog
1 karakas
2 bayou
3 scrublands
4 marsh flats
4 verdant catacombs
3 wasteland
sideboard:
3 pernicious deed
2 life from the loam
1 gaddok teeg
1 kitchen finks
1 sigarda, host of herons
1 surgical extraction
1 extirpate
2 oblivion ring
2 duress
Hymns were great, and I'm thorn between hymns and therapies. I also miss a third goyf.
Glissa is a nice non-gy-based creature with a relevant set of abilities, so I think I can keep her even without artifacts that can be recurred.
As I also said before, I tested it with stoneforge, but although she does generate card advantage and helps stabilizing the board, it forces the manabase even more (This deck needs double black, and now is craving for more green, I can´t let it too much white-dependent).
I had nice matches against combo, because that enormous amount of discard + teeg was enough give an upper hand. Against burn, an abundant deck in this meta, hymns were cool until the cavalry (finks and big beaters) came, but it is not too favorable. I wanted to add jittes on the board, but I can't make space.
Sigarda is in there because IF i ever get to a bug hard control or a jund match-up, she will win the game for me nicely.
Lingering souls have been great up till now.
I still don't miss the pulse. What decay doesn't take away, o-ring does, and for tokens, etc i can count on deed.
I added the second life from the loam just in case... in the matches I want loam I do so desperately.
canadian and bug tempo are still favorable matches with gsz, shaman and loam (canadian is very favorable, team america not so much). bug shardless seems harder.
I hope this info is helpful and I'm accepting suggestions as always!
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