I have yet to test Infernal Tutor, but it seems like everything this deck would want in a 2 mana tutor. I played the deck before Dissenssion and I haven't tried it lately. I was debating Leyline of the Void in the main, but it seems like that debate has been settled.Originally Posted by syssc9
@Mr.Nightmare - You basically cut Mystical Tutor for Duress? I can see how that would help your control matchup, though it would still hurt the aggro matchup, wouldn't it? Maybe you are right and Infernal Tutor is that good that the deck can still beat aggro comfortably and thus Duress is there to help against Control. But what if you don't get Leyline of the Void in the early game, Duress still seems horrible in this case.
The thing with Leyline is, you have to get it early against control. It's worth going to 5 (which is effectively 4) to get it out there uncounterable. It swings the game that much. Even if it costs you game 1, game 2 and 3 you have Defense Grid, which is an unbelievable house against them, and I bring in Bob as well, which helps get those threats out there, as well as decreasing the critical mass I need to win, often to the point of not even needing IGG. In the early game (post board), Duress doesn't so much lead into an IGG, as much as a Bob or a Defense Grid. Once Grid comes online, it may as well be Leyline. Control will be hard for this deck to fight, but Duress is the opposite of bad for that matchup.
I've been wanting to add a 2 mana land to the mix. There are a lot of colorless requirememts in the spells you cast, and tapping a City of Traitors or an Ancient Tomb for a C Ritual than casting IT just seems so good to me. It also helps to cast Leylines when you don't want to mull into them.
A good friend of mine once said:
>Pron w/sound FTW... Actually, Porn FTW. Yep. Fixed.
I thought the same until I tried it. The issue becomes: This deck has highly strict color requirements to be developed in a short time. The reason it tries to run on basics alone is that Wasteland is a Time Walk against this deck. Losing a colored mana slot, while maintaining the same vulnerablilites has not proven worth it. Especially since the combo only will let you abuse the mana boost once or twice.
~ Team Unicorn Motto
I played this deck last night (card for card the list suggested by the creator swapping Bloodstained Mire for Delta because of availability) ended up going 2-2 purely because of idiotic single play mistakes caused by never playing storm combo (and being a relative idiot).
Learned that the deck is silly unaffected by discard as long as your going of with IGG and it makes me wonder if Darkblast might not be of a little use to set up IGG with. There are a few times I've been delayed going off having to topdeck a single card to be able to go get a tendrils or because I can cast IGG but dont have the accel I need (probably can be solved by a better muligan). Seems like binning three would be better than drawing one in these situations.
However probably on the whole its not better than Mystical Tutor, I've been playing with -1 Mystical Tutor, +1 Darkblast and there has been about one game that it helped. Its more likely that I'm just not playing the deck as well as I should but I figured some more experienced folks with the deck might be able to point out why its useless.
Hoi!
I've been playing this deck at a local T1.5 tournament lately finishing first. I have a small report written at MTGS. You might want to look into it.
Small Report on MTGS
Greets
TheSorcerer
PS: 4x Defense Grid and 4x Dark Confidant should be a staple in this decks Sideboard.
I've been playing 4x Infernal Tutor, 4x Leyline lately, 1x Bayou over an Island, and 1x Spoils of the Vault in place of 1x Mystical Tutor and I'm loving it. My board has become 4x Xantid Swarm, 4x Dark Confidant, 4x Pithing Needle, Rushing River, Rebuild, Echoing Truth after some experimentation with Cabal Therapy. I'm currently running the 1x Spoils because there are many times when I want an LED or Pithing Needle to go off safely and Mystical Tutor won't let me grab those.
The only problem I have right now is that I'm still learning all of the combinations that make me win on turns 1 and 2 and the mulligan decisions that go along with it. It seems like this latest combination with Infernal Tutor and Leyline might be the deck that brings Legacy to a FT of 3.
Given the surge of popularity of the deck, I'm also beginning to test the mirror. Any thoughts here?
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
Gro dodge FTW.
How does this deck do against Gro anyways? I'm curious.
Hoi!
It's basicly the worst matchup you can think of - really, there isnt anything close as bad. Meddling Mage, free couters and fast clocks are not exactly what you want to face.
Greets
TheSorcerer
In testing against Gro/Tog with my board I've been stomping them. Game 1 seems to be about 60% in our favor because of Leyline but the reason it's not higher is the 50/50 racing issue (you can race, bait, and hope they don't have many counters) without Leyline. If they end up with 2-3 counters in the first two turns, you might be able to recover, it depends on their creature support, but probably not.
I have yet to lose games post-board when I've boarded against them. This was with my old board of:
4x Dark Confidant
4x Xantid Swarm
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Bounce (Rushing River, Rebuild, Echoing Truth)
where I would board:
+4 Confidant
+4 Swarm
+3 Therapy
-1 Therapy (against Tog)
+1 Rebuild (against Tog)
-3 IGG
-4 LED
-4 Intuition
leaving in 1x IGG for the random Mind Twist. Tog is actually a tougher matchup because they can board Chalice against you which really, really sucks. The good news is that they probably won't draw 3x Chalice so you can still win from under 2x Chalice @ (1,2,3).
You board into a deck that ends up playing similarly to Vintage Intuition Tendrils going for a double Tendrils. You simply play an attrition war. They can only really board in REBs and/or Crypts which are both pretty worthless against you post-board. The black versions of Gro and Tog are a lot more difficult thanks to the potential for Duress/Cabal Therapy, but those don't see much as much play as UGW and UGR. I've found in the UGR matchup that I sometimes have to do a mini tendrils for 12 or 14 and finish them off a turn or two later.
I'm not using the Therapies in the board anymore (switched it out for Pithing Needle) and I haven't tested the Threshold matchup post-therapy removal.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
I know this was brought up before, but no one really addressed the matter. Does anyone have some accurate goldfishing results, like the percentages to go off on turn 1,2,3,4 and so on?? I believe that this would be very helpful in determing whether or not to give this deck a shot. I have been goldfishing the deck, and I cacn consistently go off turn 4 every time and most likely turn 3 if i really need to.. Thanks!
Team Unicorn- "I'm Horny."
"The Wandering One" of Legacy.
"Glimmervoid, Go."
This deck can go off more than 20, even maybe 25 % on the time on turn one on play. This is just about as fast as Belcher. This is included first turn IGG with a Leyline in play. You only have to see the loop for getting ten spells. So is 2x LED+Land+Infernal Tutor+ Lotus Petal also a one turn kill.
I've tested 100 games
first turn 21 ( 6 x Leyline + IGG)
second turn 34
Third Turn 46
Fourth turn 7
Later 2
Now throw disruption into the mix.. What do you do if you can't go off first turn and someone decides to duress you. That duress can slow you down quite significantly. The deck goldfishes exceptionally well, but why play this deck over solidarity??
Team Unicorn- "I'm Horny."
"The Wandering One" of Legacy.
"Glimmervoid, Go."
Well a single duress doesn't slow you down much. The spells who are most likely chosen are Infernal Tutor and Intuition. You're change of drawing a new one is quite big and you also have Brainstorm and Mystical Tutor. The problem is alot of handdisruption and counters with a fast clock, but both of those are beatable.
Why play it over Solidarity?
1. easier to play, at least for me.
2. Totally wrecks Goblins. Goblins sometimes run Solidarity, but they're unable to run IGG.
3. Less hurt by LD. Although you run 2 colors you can go off quite easily with one land and a Petal. Solidarity needs 3 lands so Confidant can keep him of bay for a little while.
4. Fastest consitant deck in the format.
5. No resets; no expensive or rare cards.
Well of course there are alot of points to run Solidarity over IGG, but IGG is becoming a very powerful deck, being able to win against all tier one decks and smashes random crap.
6. People use dedicated slots in their sideboard to beat Solidarity. We are not as much affected by some of them (Boil, sirocco, REB) and we can race others (Rule of law).
7. We can play 4 maindeck hate to some decks in the form of Leyline of the void. This doesn't offer control as Solidarity's Force of will, but sometimes happens you just run into "byes" (Ichorid, Reanimator, Teen Titans, FEB, Loam Decks) or have significant advantages (Survival, Gro, Affinity)
8. You're sure to win. You can't fizzle, Solidarity can.
@Benie Bederios: "5. No resets; no expensive or rare cards."
Intuition? Underground Sea?
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
I think the most important reason to play this deck over Solidarity is the Turn 2 Yawgmoth's Mindtwist. No other Legacy deck has the ability to go Turn 1 Duress, turn 2 remove your entire hand from the game, leaving 3 cards in mine, and giving me infinite time to set myself up for a lethal Tendrils.
The main reason to play this deck over Solidarity is that almost always beats aggro decks. It functions like a classic combo deck in that it beats aggro but has trouble with Control especially Force of Will. While Solidarity is pretty good against aggro sometimes it just isn't able to setup a good enough hand in time. Solidarity has the distinction of being a combo deck that has an amazing game against Control.
Hoi!
I fully agree with Anwar on what he said. There is absolutely no aggresive deck out there, that beats Iggy Pop - except those sporting Counterspells themselves or enough disruption. Solidarity simply goldfishes one to two turns slower, which is a huge difference against most Legacy aggro decks. If you want to apply this to the "Fundemental Turn"-Theory, Iggy Pop simply outraces every single deck in the current envoirement with having an average turn 3 goldfish.
Greets
TheSorcerer
hate to break it to you but thats 110 games.
A good friend of mine once said:
>Pron w/sound FTW... Actually, Porn FTW. Yep. Fixed.
Oops my mistake, I lost the count but 100 * 20 / 110 is still 19 %. Counted that I didn't play flawless, I can't even count, it probably can go over 20 % first turn kills.
@ GreenOne: well Intuition is alot cheaper than Reset and sea's can be replaced by the new duals.
Last edited by Nightmare; 05-31-2006 at 02:53 PM.
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