I sucked in Worcester, too, going 5-4. Same list, but Force -> Bob. He surprisingly stuck several times, maybe got plowed 2-3 times the whole tourney. I liked him a lot today.
I just feel like the deck is missing one more piece to it. I'm not quite sure what it is. I lost round 1 to traditional affinity - Etched Champ + Cranial both games, and as much as I'd like to run him, he's just not good in this build. I'm probably going to put down the deck for a bit and work on another - I want to play Angel Stompy and screw around with my Prismatic-made-Legacy. The whole day I didn't really get Opal-screwed, a few times Chrome screwed, and a couple games I mulled to 5, but overall I wasn't fighting my deck too hard. I don't know quite how to fix the deck to make it closer to Tier 1, I just think some of the inherent weaknesses (2-for-1 with Chrome, Lotus Petal) can make some games frustrating, even though the TD's are really incredible - even just Thopter Foundry. If I were to take a guess, Goodfinity would need a slightly stronger manabase to really make it, but as is, it's still a pretty good deck, even as I was playing it maybe 85% optimally. I still got mana pwn'd every now and then off of SFM or something like that, which was especially frustrating, grrr.
Thanks for your suggestions Hax0r, I'll post something new when I get a good idea for the deck, but a year on it's been pretty long, and I could use the change, at least for a few weeks. I hope you stick with it and come up with the brilliant idea that'll push it over the top.
-Matt
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
Last week I dusted it off and went: 4 Cranial, 4 Force, no Confidant/Tezz. I also MD 2 Etched Champ for Cranials (though dunno if it should be 2 MoE to dodge Elesh Norn - and survive Jitte!) and went 4-0 with it. American Delver, OmniShow, Deathblade and something else. The real main difference was that I dropped 4 Wasteland for 3 Tundra and something else, just to get the extra fix in there, and though I really love Wasteland, I think the deck was missing that last bit of fix. I dropped the few Petals I was running for Ornithopter; so I'd have an arti that makes a decent topdeck all game long - Cranial x4 to try to make it more useful than Petal. The rest of the stuff, Chalice, Trinket Mage, stayed the same, and I only mulled a couple times. I was pretty happy with it, though I still would really like to spend my time on Geddon Stax and Eureka Stax.
Another power 2-drop that would be interesting to get down Turn 1 might be Standstill. I saw another Affinity player trying to break it. It would require half the deck to be rebuilt, though, and I'm not sure it's powerful enough - or rather, that you won't see any Gob/Merf/opposing Manlands - to make it worth dumping half your power cards into Memnites and stuff. It was an interesting concept, and would fit the slightly accelerated curve here, so I thought I'd mention it.
I think the rough decklist (don't have it on me now):
4 Mopal, Chrome, Seat, Den, Vault
3 Tundra
4 Ornithopter, SFM, Trinket Mage, Thopter Foundry
2 Etched Champ
1 Batterskull, Sword Meek, Jitte
4 Chalice, Cranial
4 Force, Thoughtcast
It's interesting that one hand can play hyper-fast with T1 Ornithopter equipped with Cranial T2; and the next can go long with Thopter Combo. I think it's counter-intuitive that a deck would want to do this, but again, there are only so many power 2-drops, and Cranial is one of them... mostly. I might want an Ornth to be Phyx Walker.
EDIT: Or maybe make Etched Champs into Phyrexian Walkers. That would increase the probability of landing a Turn 1 Creature + Cranial, which, while it hasn't beaten control, is just insane pressure against combo and most other decks. I'm going to try that eventually. Also put the new list up, as I think the deck needs Tundras for mana-fixing. Note that the deck would still benefit from 2 more blue, Chrome imprintable spells.
Last edited by frogger42; 08-12-2013 at 09:12 AM.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
Update of Balls of Steel:
4 Mox Opal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Memnite
4 Frogmite
4 Somber Hoverguard
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Spiketail Hatchling
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
2 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Chalice of the Void
Basically, I'm going to cut the Riddlesmith for Thalia, which is more powerful, Lotus Petal for Memnites (which are a better TD), and Myr Enforcers + SofI for Cranials and Spiketails. That guy is acting as a psuedo-sphere here, and will suit up as well - plus he's the last two imprint slots I want for Chrome Mox. Should be viable, I hope.
I'm going to take this next week. I've been switching decks a lot, cause there're like three ideas I'm working on right now.
EDIT: It was also suggested I run Azorius Guildmage in the Spiketail slots. I might SB it and see which is better.
DOUBLE EDIT: Without the Petals, that's a lot less colored sources. I'm going to Tomb -> Tundra. (Or Karakas...)
Last edited by frogger42; 09-14-2013 at 01:04 PM.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
Ack, our local little weekly didn't fire this week! Oh well. I think I'm going to keep 4 Cranials, as that card is just so powerful. I think it's even better than running Bob.
Played against 12 post, and it seals the deal in three turns. Almost every game. It's just unbelievable getting down an extra 7 dmg for 3 mana in one turn. That card effectively solved my 12 Post problem, whereas I was originally considering Wasteland (which screws the manabase).
I'm doing Cranials with Ornithopters from here on out. I like getting 4-5 dmg T2, which just feels so good.
I still want to figure out how to fight Reanimator. I might need 4 Crypts in the board, or maybe some RiPs. Initially, when I ran Lotus Petals, T1 Trinket Mage -> Crypt wasn't too bad. But that's definitely never going to happen without the Petals.
Also updated the primer a bit. Give you a sense of what the deck does well. I'd really like the deck to put a dent into a tourney, and I really do believe in it. I think it's well-positioned, with the general lack of Pernicious Deeds right now.
I am a bit worried that the deck essentially runs Aggro (Thopter + Cranial) and control (Force, Chalice, Thopter Combo), and I've had a friend comment the deck was trying to do too much. He played it and couldn't figure out how to run the deck, lost horribly, and I wonder if maybe it's a bit trickier to run than I'd considered. I'll try to think of a clearer strategy for the deck, though suggestions are always welcome.
Haxor - are you still on this deck or have you moved on? I haven't seen anything new good for it in ages. I want to test it online extensively, BUUUUUT my bloody MWS doesn't work. Grr!
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
For Reanimator, you can pick a number of cheap, effective options, ranging from Crypt to Relic and Cage, and even Thran Foundry.
Yeah, I think I'm just going to drop some of my toolbox slots so I can run 4 GY hate. Probably 1 Crypt, 3 RiP should work, though RiP hurts my own Thopter Combo. The problem with Rean is G1. If they have a T2 Grisel-hand, I probably lose. There are a couple things I can do (Ornithopter + Foundry) but it's still pretty iffy.Originally Posted by Darkenslight
Also, I usually find I side Thopter Combo out against GY decks anyway, as they tend to be faster and more efficient, and Thopter Foundry is on the slow side to set up. It also goes out against Storm, obv, for the same reason.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
Idea:
Since manadorks (Llanowar Elves, and now Deathrite Shaman) punish me for my own Spheres, and I want to run powerful 2-drops off Ancient Tombs, how about Umezawa's Jitte? Like, x3???
Seems kinda weird and janky, but I think it might be the right place to start:
4 Mox Opal
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Lotus Petal
3 Vault Skirge
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Frogmite
4 Somber Hoverguard
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Cranial Plating
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thoughtcast
Without white, the SB's kinda... awful. It'd be rough to use O-Rings and RiP in Show and Tell, Reanimator. Ugh. I might have to use Echoing Truth and Tormod's Crypt, hopefully those will get there.
So yeah. More artifacts, no Chrome, more stuff to power out with Tombs. I could even make the 2x Petals into City of Traitors, which ain't a bad idea. The ideal play is Metalcraft an Opal -> Jitte -> Frogmite T1. Or Tomb, Jitte, Memnite, equip T2. That's why 3x Jitte.
Thoughts?
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
I want to propose a new build based on the hotness coming out in Conspiracy. I have no idea if it's going to be any good. (Probably not)
4 Mox Opal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Great Furnace
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Goblin Welder
4 Transmute Artifact
4 Thoughtcast
4 Riddlesmith
2 Muzzio, Visionary Architect
1 Sundering Titan
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Sharuum the Hegemon
Note: Transmute Artifact is basically a bad Entomb for Welder if you don't have a Myr Enforcer on hand. Anti-combo pieces, a bit of synergystic light aggro, and then cheaty tinker effects, the Natural Order of the deck.
Eat that Abrupt Decay. Feel free to critique this pile!
Last edited by Jander78; 05-25-2014 at 11:25 PM. Reason: Fixed cards tags.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
I would play 4 Trinisphere in this build. It is really powerful in opening hands against most legacy decks.
Also consider Tangle Wire and maybe Smokestack. These two cards are REALLY good with Goblin Welder.
Ta-Da!
I think I've got it.
4:
Mox Opal
Seat of the Synod
Ancient Den
Darksteel Citadel
Ancient Tomb
2 Chrome Mox
4:
Chalice of the Void
Sphere of Resistance
Thorn of Amethyst
Frogmite
Somber Hoverguard
Myr Enforcer
Quicksilver Behemoth
Thoughtcast
Dragon Wings
2 Complicate
The 4/5s beat Batterskull germs, and the Wings beat Delvers and evade Goyfs. I'll post results from my next weekly for those interested.
(And white for the SB: Suppression Field, Leonin Arbiter/Faerie Macabre, Containment Priest, 3 Venser, Shaper Savant)
It's a super budget build, totally unintentionally, and like the initial build, should wreck Combo and Delver, thought prolly less hot against Control and Mid-Range. Post away!
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
The 4/5s that get bounced to your hand every time they do something?
Interesting list, but is it better than just playing traditional Affinity with Ravagers and Cranial Plating and the like? I mean, if you're going to open yourself up to mass artifact hate like Affinity, you have to really justify playing this over Affinity, which seems faster. Chalice of the Void? Couldn't I just jam that into Affinity?
The 4/5s with psuedo-vigilance. They're not too bad, actually, esp when they're Serra Angels.
You totally could (and probably should) jam Chalice into your Affinity deck. This deck's style is much more prison, less balls-to-the-wall than traditional affinity, which does get blown out by hate really hard. I was just playtesting against BUG Delver and traded back and forth fairly evenly.
I definitely prefer this style to traditional (though this is "more traditional"?) Affinity, but that's my preference, and one over the other is a metagame choice. Ravager Affinity is of course faster, but that's not the point of this deck. I think this Old School style is more stable, much more disruptive. Thanks for the input, though!
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
But the big downside that prevents Affinity from ever cracking the Tier 1 is still very real in this deck - the fact that your entire deck is artifacts and just gets blown out by artifact hate and/or permanent sweepers.
Honestly... I don't know about that! Traditional Affinity, yes, because you just jam through with no disruption. Just looking at the Affinity hate:
- Pernicious Deed: Doesn't kill my dudes. I pack Suppression Field in the SB to hose that.
- Null Rod: Doesn't kill dudes on field, and I can still crank Frogmites and Enforcers. You can run Seal of Cleansing if you're afraid of it.
- Engineered Explosives: A real threat here, as it nukes my balls off the table. It's a possibility for running in the deck, too. I still have Supp Field to prevent it.
- Hurkyl's Recall: My board state can recover kinda quickly from that. And I have Hoverguard / Behemoth not to get too blown out. Usually combo packs this to go off next turn, but if it's a defensive Recall, I probably win.
- Kataki / Energy Flux: serious hosers. Kataki might come through an Aether Vial, and you just have to hope your board state (Tombs + non-arti-dudes) can beat it. Flux is probably about 4 to cast by the time they draw it, but a total hose when it comes down. Kataki's the most vicious hate here.
Keep in mind, you run disruption to keep your opponent from finding / windmill slamming hate down. But sleeve it up! Tell me what you think. I think Complicate can go in the board, as I'm trying something else in those 2 slots. Give it a shot and let me know where you think the holes are.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
Suppression Field doesn't prevent anything. All that Field does is delay blowouts by a little bit. At a certain point in the game the opponent is more than happy to pay 2 mana to get his activation while you sit in play with card disadvantage. I've played with Field ALOT in Legacy, and I think it's a very overrated card for what it does.
Honestly, because this deck plays Artifact Lands just like Affinity, I don't see how opponent playing P.Deed/H.Recall/E.E. isn't just as devastating for this deck. Counting on Suppression Field from the sideboard is simply not a viable answer either.
Just curious what you played Supp Field in? I'd love to see a decklist. As far as I know, none of the Tier 1 decks can run Field effectively, and a few of the T1-1.5 decks get completely blown out by it.
My opinion of Field? In Legacy, you're better off running Stoneforge Mystic and just winning. But I like Field, and it protects my stuffs. 4 Mana to crack a Deed that doesn't stop my dudes is still pretty rough for my opponent. And they need a non-fetch in hand after casting the Deed, too. Again, this is a tempo-y deck, like RUG, except backwards: the disruption costs mana, but the threats are undercosted/free. You can't ride a Sphere/Field to victory, but it usually buys enough time to smack with something.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
For the board of that list, this is what I'd consider:
4 Damping Matrix
4 Aven Mindcensor
4 Torpor Orb
3 Force of Will
I'd also take out the Complicates for another counterspell (possibly the Big Mack Daddy Hindering Light).
^ Cool. Just note Torpor Orb stops the Dragon Wings trigger, too, though. There's a lotta versatility in UW with the Sideboard, some options:
Cursed Totem
Winter Orb
Anhk of Mishra (you are aggro, after all)
Tsabo's Web
[enter 2-drop arti bomb here]
Decree of Justice
O Ring, Containment Priest, etc etc
I think Hindering Light is hard to pull off, considering only 10 U sources and 8 W ones. Unlike all other counters, FoW included, Complicate gets under your Spheres when you cycle, and taxes.
That said, I moved Complicate to my board and am trying something else in that slot:
4 T Crypt
4 Complicate
4 Supp Field
3 Cranial Plating (meh??)
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
List:
4:
Mox Opal
Seat of the Synod
2 Ancient Den
Darksteel Citadel
Ancient Tomb
Chrome Mox
4:
Chalice of the Void
Sphere of Resistance
Thorn of Amethyst
Frogmite
Somber Hoverguard
Myr Enforcer
Quicksilver Behemoth
Thoughtcast
Dragon Wings
2 Dust Bowl
I went to a 4 round weekly and got 3rd. I played all decks that, umm, don't care about Sphere effects: 12 Post, Miracles, Red Mud, and Grixis Control (this one caring the most, with Young Pyros). I sided out the spheres in most cases for Revokers and sometimes Jittes. I only lost to Grixis Control, based on the always janky mana-screw (he drew 2x more lands than me... huh).
Thoughts on the deck: Thorn is fine, but maybe Cranial/Jitte would be better than the card that's generally worse than Sphere.
Winter Orb for the SB, to make Sphere relevant in control/ mid-range MUs.
Dust Bowl is da nuts, with me Bowling away about 10+ lands during 3 games VS Miracles. Even super-relevant with all the basics.
Dragon Wings often came out for Complicates, which is still a terrible card, but probably better than Assert Authority (UU is hard to come by). I Complicated 2 spells in the tourney FTW.
I don't think this is a super-competitive deck as of yet, but I do think it's Tier 1.5 worthy, and for $200, you can't do any better than this. The Thorn slots I'm going to have to figure out, maybe 2 Jitte, 2 Winter Orb; maybe just 4 Jitte. Not too sure yet. I also playtested against Omni-Show (about 40% win rate - the jerk brings Hurkyl's Recall literally because of me) and BUG/RWU Delvers (probably 50%, maybe a bit more).
Though not ultra competitive, it is one of the simplest and most fun decks to run that I've seen. If anyone has thoughts for the last 4 slots... though I suspect those are meta-calls. Perhaps they could even just be the Complicates. I've convinced one friend to sleeve it up, so lemme know how your playtesting goes!
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
Another (slightly less budget) build:
4:
Mox Opal
Chrome Mox
Seat of the Synod
Darksteel Citadel (or whatever color arti-land)
Ancient Tomb
Rishadan Port
4:
Chalice of the Void
Sphere of Resistance
Winter Orb
Frogmite
Somber Hoverguard
Myr Enforcer
Qumulox
Thoughtcast
Complicate
This one goes for Mox+Port/ Winter Orb lock. It's pretty spicy, but Qumulox kinda stinks (specifically the UU), and Complicate's really pricy to cast. (Orb also is synergy with Affini-dorks, and Ancient Tomb in addition to Moxen.) Thoughts for these 2 slots? They've both got to be blue and Chrome-Imprintable.
It doesn't seem to bad on Cockatrice so far.
EDIT: Card tags included.
Final Ritual: "I was your round 14 opponent with the 3 giant goyfs. I didn't know what the fuck you were piloting."
Drunken Master strategy. If I don't know what I'm doing, how would you?
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