hi everybody! i finished 1/2 in a tournament of 21 people with BUG fit depths. here is the decklist:
1 Primeval Titan
3 Veteran Explorer
1 Eternal Witness
3 Trinket Mage
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Expedition Map
3 Living Wish
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Academy Ruins
1 Wasteland
1 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Life from the Loam
4 Brainstorm
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Dark Depths
SB: 1 Thespian's Stage
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Fleshbag Marauder
SB: 1 Vampire Hexmage
SB: 3 Negate
SB: 2 Simic Charm
The deck worked perfecltly: i won 2-0 against patriot, 2-0 against canadian, 2-0 against GWb zenith and IDthe 2 last rounds. In the top 8 i won 2-0 against GW zenith depths , i won 2-1 against WGb maverick depths and ID the final against darkblade.
The best cards in the deck were pernicious deed and primeval titan. Well that's all, the only i have to say it's that i won at least all the games with depths and that thespian is awesome ( it allows you to copy the dark depths of your opponent).
Tao if you remember i played against you in cockatrice with that deck!
Tested it out. Cute, but too difficult to setup. Really win more.Originally Posted by hymntotourcock
If anyone wants Kitchen Table though, ooooohhhh boy.
That being said, it might be fine as a 1 of in a Living Wish board. When unchecked, it is stupid.
@arianrhod: besides being a great finisher by itself, your decks seems to be begging for kalonian hydra. He makes archangel, volroz, and feeder all better, and most people cant handle an 8/8 trample.
@nils gutierrez: I think you would be better off running white and knight of the reliquary than trinket mage. Running white will also opens up alot of good cards. There may even be an enchantment that academy rector can grab that will get you dark depths/thespian. All i can think of is pattern of rebirth for primeval titan, but there might be something better i dont know of.
Or replace the chaff with a couple of Intuitions or Gifts.
I play tested rector version Sunday for about 6 hours and it still feels like I want more rector. Unless I draw all my enchantments he lets me take back control of the game when I'm behind. BBV didn't do me any good because only time I got to cast him was vs MUD facing a Wurmcoil. Other times I played blue decks and he just go countered. Hopefully I can test again this week before I go to NJ. But I'm thinking of cutting STE. Just need to figure out a replacement that still provides some type of card advantage.
I have completely changed the deck around. I have no 6 drop creature and I think I'm going to go down to 21 lands for the 4th Green Sun :). Going to be a interesting deck, hope it works.
Last edited by CRich3; 07-16-2013 at 11:26 PM.
Reworked my Rector list a bit. It is pretty strong. Removed Fetters and Sorin for 2 Thoughtseizes to reduce the average CMC. Improved the mana base and the SB a bit.
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
2 Phyrexian Tower
2 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Lingering Souls
4 Academy Rector
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Garruk Relentless
1 Innocent Blood
2 Thoughtseize
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Humility
1 Dovescape
1 Collective Blessing
1 Assemble the Legion
SB: 3 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 2 Sigarda, Host of Herons
SB: 2 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 1 Innocent Blood
any maelstrom pulse? i see it week against jace. anyway nice deck!
Does Recurring Nightmare belong anywhere in non-Rector lists? Lingering Souls?
Current list I'm trying out:
Creatures:13
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Wall of Blossoms
2 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thragtusk
1 Sun Titan
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
Spells:25
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Liliana of the Veil
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Recurring Nightmare
2 Plow Under
Lands:22
3 Bayou
4 Forest
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Plains
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Windswept Heath
I'm probably too in love with Plow Under, but there hasn't been a time I didn't want it when I've drawn it. I took out Garruk because he wasn't working as well as I wanted. I've enjoyed Recurring Nightmare and it's power to both reverse the tide of the game and soft lock an opponent.
I've played against Rock and Esperblade so far in testing.
I'm open to ideas and tweaks.
Thanks.
The deck has a relatively high Mana curve already (Rectors, Garruks, Enchantments) which is why I cut Faith's Fetters even though it answered Jace. For the same reason Decay is much better than Pulse. With only 4 Explorers instead of 8 (no GSZ) the 2-drop removal is invaluable.
The goal is to beat U/W Jaces by getting Dovescape and then finding another Rector for Curse of Death's Hold. For G2 you get a few Sigardas to beat on Jace. But even though the deck already performs very well (try it) it still feels a bit "under constructon" so any input is very welcome.
Recurring Nightmare does not belong in non-Rector lists anymore I think. I always loved the card but with Deathrite Shaman everywhere it has become too unreliable. Probably. If you get it to work it is still amazing. It is just awkward if you have a ton of mana and draw your late game win condition and it doesn't do anything because of a 1-drop.
I like Lingering Souls in theory a lot. It is good with Cabal Therapy and it is almost good enough just as a value card by itself. So if you have some synergies it is worth experimenting with (Rector into Collective Blessing; maybe Humility; maybe Stoneforge Mystic, maybe something else).
Plow Under sounds not good in a deck with Veteran Explorer in a format with Fetchlands. The point of Explorer is to abuse that the opponent most likely doesn't need the lands you give him. So if he fetches after an Explorer trigger and a Plow Under you achieved pretty much nothing with your 5-mana spell. Also the card quality of Plow Under is pretty low.
This looks like a fun list, I'm happy to see all the disruption in Therapy, Thoughtseize, Lili. I would be interested to see how -2 Plow Under +2 Liliana performs.
How does a winning game look on average? Who is your all-star?
Does Wall of Blossoms do enough? How often can you GSZ out a Wall, then sac it to Cabal Therapy?
No Maelstrom Pulse? How do you defeat walkers?
I feel like NicFit should concentrate more on stocking Planeswalkers seeing as how they survive Deed every time. In my own list I think i will test 3 Liliana 1 Primal hunter.
Tao, how well does Lingering Souls/Liliana perform together? Have you tested this at all?
Not tested them together yet but they sound solid together. The synergy is nothing to be ecstatic about but both are good enough on their own anyway. Lingering Souls is also very good against a couple of problematic cards: Jace TMS, Tombstalker and Stage/Depths.
@Mono-Green's list: In general I like it a lot (except for the Plow Unders). It has the right mix of early disruption and late game win conditions. But I doubt that White is really worth it. Sigarda is amazing but it is not that much of a difference if you win with Yosei and Sun Titan or Primeval Titan. In the direct comparison I do not see why I would play these few expensive white cards over red for Punishing Fire, Huntmaster of the Fells and the amazing SB cards Red Blasts and Slaughter Games.
If you replace 2 Plow Under and a Nightmare with 3 Punishing Fire, and you replace the three White creatures and the Empath with 2 Huntmasters, a Broodmate Dragon and a Primeval Titan I think you end up with a better deck.
@Planeswalkers: I think the reason why we see so few Planeswalkers is that the green, white and black Planeswalkers are not good enough. Jace is in a different League. A couple Garruks or Lilianas are okay, but I wouldn't focus my deck around them. The synergy with Deed isn't that important because your creature win conditions survive most Deeds anyway and you don't care about things like Explorers, Tribe Elders and Witnesses dying.
Because our opponents can't abuse Veteran Explorer the way we do is why Plow Under is effective. Most of the time our opponents will keep a one or two land hands. Hitting them with Plow Under after they drop their only lands is basically a Time Walk. During testing my opponent did have a fetch land in hand and was able to shuffle the second land draw away. On my next turn I played Witness grabbing back Plow Under ensuring that those were the only two lands he'd see and he'd keep drawing them instead of a business spell.
Liliana has performed well. I'm not in love with her because I'm not running a whole lot I readily want to discard.
Recurring Nightmare has been my all-star, looping Yosei or even Sun Titan. It's incredible how much I can abuse the card. What I've run into though is I often lack enough early game outside of discard and ramp that Recurring Nightmare is often how I have to climb back in the game. I've won more games at less than five life than I care to count.
I haven't used a GSZ for the wall. I'm more likely to grab an Explorer with it. The card draw is nice, especially when paired with Sun Titan. Admittedly this will likely be one of the first cards replaced.
The only walker I'm concerned with is Jace. And my best way to deal with him is never letting him touch the board. If I can't get my opponent to discard him, I use one of my fliers to take him out.
I've tried Primal Hunter and wasn't overly excited about him. The only time he won me a game was when I played him turn three after Therapy/Explorer/Flashback my first two turns. I built him up and kept swinging for the fences. I'd run more Liliana if I changed things up and had more to discard. Those changes would include adding Garruk back in, reducing the creature count while adding more disruption.
My reason for not running red is simply that I have an unhealthy passionate hatred to it. I think a white list (non-rector) has ton of potential. Maybe not the way I'm building it, but I do think it can be strong.
While red adds quite a bit of options for the SB, I don't see them as a reason to switch. Especially because there hasn't been an abundance of Show and Tell in my Meta.
The three strongest versions of this deck are currently Scapewish, BUG and Punishing Fire. These lists are the measuring stick. When you put up a list it will naturally be compared to the one closest to it. So if you have a combo-ish list it will get compared to Scapewish and if you have a Planeswalker based list it will get compared to BUG Fit. And if like in your case - and most straight GB lists - the deck is based on incremental card advantage and value creatures it will have to stand up to Punishing Fire versions.
The main problem is that your list is very similar to Punishing Fire lists so they are easy to compare but it is pretty much inferior in every way (except for Sigarda). Like I said I like your list a lot in general but don't see the point of the white cards, You only have 3 White cards in your maindeck and they all cost 5 or more Mana. And in the SB you could play Gaddock but there is nothing else that White has to offer for the SB. I can't say much about your problems with the color red.
That sort of testing isn't conclusive of Plow Under's effectiveness in any way. If your opponent doesn't play basics, he is either:
a) playing tempo, whereas it doesn't matter if you set him back 2 lands, they only need 1-2 to function and Plow Under is strictly win-more in that matchup, or;
b) playing a specific combo deck with no basics (T.E.S for example), in which case Plow Under is a terrible card because you will die before you can cast it.
When you can reach 5 lands and your opponent struggles with getting 2 in play while you are under no significant pressure because you can afford to cast a spell like Plow Under, it doesn't matter what you do really, that game is well in your favor...
Also, red is good because it has a 1 mana answer to our worst nightmares: Jace and SnT. Punishing Fire is far from being the main attraction if you ask me.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
Has anyone tried Ghost Quarter in Nic Fit? I feel like nuking your opp's free basic lands could be beneficial. Most legacy decks play somewhere between 2-3 basics so it could pay off. Or is this more of my Pox side coming through?
Pretty sure Time Walking your opponent for two turns is fine. If they win through that, you were gonna lose anyways because that card was not going to be any less durdly than Plow.
Plow Under isn't even close to double Time Walk. Especially when it is about getting killed or not getting killed. It is way harder for the opponent to kill you after you play a Thragtusk or a Huntmaster than after a Plow Under.
Is that really the card that you would draw instead of Plow Under? You aren't cutting threats for Plow, you are cutting other disruption.
For anyone who cares, I top 8'd Mythic yesterday with the following Thunian Fit list:
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Varolz, Scar-Striped
2 Spike Feeder
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
2 Archangel of Thune
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sun Titan
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Living Wish
1 Diabolic Intent
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Primeval Bounty
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
3 Plains
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Phyrexian Tower
//SB
1 Viscera Seer
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Angel of Despair
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Nevermore
1 Batterskull
Matchups were Burn (lol), BWR midrangeish (gate shell with better removal, basically), U/R Doug McKay.dec (which I lost to, because Delver is good when you can't find a deed and your draws are subpar), and Esperblade (then an ID for r5, and a split for top 8).
Vs Esperblade we were in turns for g3...I was on turn 3, had a board of Finks, Finks, and Spike vs his Stoneforge with a Sword of F/F and Batterskull on it. He's at >20 life, I'm at 17. I draw Archangel of Thune for my turn. It resolves. I go infinite, and casually kill him. This is what Rector was missing all along. Admittedly it's a 2-card combo, so it still isn't quite as "oops" as Scapewish is -- but just having a game-ending combo in general is pretty boss. The list definitely needs a bit of revising and tuning yet, but I'm pretty happy with a top 8 on Thunian's maiden voyage.
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