I wasn't talking about the issue to generate enough mana, but to actually find the one BSZ. Without Cunning Wish you are less likely to get a hold on BSZ. Sure, you have Cantrips, but they aren't as reliable as a Cunning Wish for that matter.
I don't see any cards I wanted to wish for in first game unless I was playing vs emrakul decks - and that card was always the BSZ...
If your op has hate on main deck there's few possible cards that can be included on that pack:
Gaddock; cannonist; solitary confinement; runned hallow; trinisphere; chalice of the void; Lodestolen Golem; academy ruins, Thalia...
I cant imagine any more cards that can hurts us maindeck. All of this can be solve by being countered, being bounced or being ignored...
Remember also that there are some MU that in the 2nd game and beyond you completely adapt the deck to the situation... No deck can win all MU...
Neither do I. Do you now that with 4 meditate 4 impulse you already saw 32 cards, beside that if you generate the mana you need you only need snapcaster + BF to find and do your work...Originally Posted by H3llsp4wn
I could easily see wanting to wish for a Ravenous Trap game 1 against Dredge or a Flusterstorm/Twincast against a counterspell deck, or a Wipe Away/Rebuild against a Chalice deck or against Counterbalance. Similarly, Wipe Away against most of the Show and Tell decks is something you'd likely want to at least have access to game 1, though that's definitely a lot trickier to pull off. In my sideboard, you could also wish for an Echoing Truth against Empty the Warrens or Surgical Extraction against Emrakul or against Reanimator. Those are all plays I could see you routinely making in the mid-game to regain control of a game or to turn a non-interactive situation interactive.
Dredge: if you are on turn 3 isnt better tp finish the game? combo of?
Counterspell: 4 mana for a fluster when you can have it on MD
chalice for 1 isnt relevant you say it yourself some posts ago
wipe away vs show and tell? to what the draw 7 creature? they have priority and after that you would need 6 mana + if they play emerakull no wipe way ftw... if they show and tell they kill you immediately or you kill them...
Reanimator: you have maindecked 3 fow and 2 flusterstorm I would like to see how they can pass this (of corse btw if they are already on turn 3 again would be better to fight for combo?
Combo (ant, belcher and tes): god they can't win postboard.
3 mana is too late to do something trough a Cwish.
There's a world of difference (usually 3-4 land drops) between being able to play through a Chalice at 1 and Chalice at 1 being irrelevant. Same with Dredge; it's definitely possible to win rather than wish for Ravenous Trap, but making that play is much, much more stable. I don't know that I'd Cunning Wish for Flusterstorm all in the same turn, more make it turn 3 when my hand is stacked and then beat them turn 4 with Flusterstorm backup. For Show and Tell, Cunning Wish preemptively; most SnT decks today are the Omniscience version which, as you said yourself, is soft to Wipe Away, though as I said that's kind of a stretch since then you'd be looking to Wipe Away on turn 4 when you could much more easily just beat them with an extra land drop off of the Show and Tell.
What surprises me most is that for all of your talk about how bad goldfishing is, you seem to be pushing the deck away from interaction and towards linearity. I'd rather not just straight give up game 1s when I don't have to, particularly when the tradeoff is just a little more consistency in the deck rather than some game-breaking spell.
1 you said that, and in that MU, if you play it, you ought to know that you need to extended the game into its max so you can be able to gatherer the right spell to rebalance the table...
2 Lie, I never said wipe way on turn 4 i said " the play show and tell t2-> we fow-> they pact -> we allow it they drop ommini and we drop land when they play enter the inifinite we resp by wipe away the ommini, they have to pass and die cause they can pay for the pact...
3 Everytime I put something here it's like Galileo questioning tha the Earth orbit the sun.... "Eppur si muove"
We are all thankful for your input, but you should get off your high horse.
My dear H3llsp4wn, when did I get in a state of mistreating or being better than everyone?
The thing is, every time someone asks something here I go to detail explaining everything, didn't I clarify your doubts last time? I even show my lists and my ideas here. This should be a place where doubts and cards are discussed and it's not... I am the oldest active player in solidarity thread either you acknowledge that or not but I never pull my "ranks" unless its justified - as i felt it was when ben told that i put cards on my decklists cause of my guts...
I asked one single question here and only 2 people answered... wtv...
I dedicate myself to this deck cause it means much too me, its an outsider a deck considered crap and outdated, it's different, it's enjoyable and challenging playing it... I hoped, here, I could find people capable of blowing the limits of this deck...
You are comparing yourself to Galileo and belittle questioning of your views. I am confused. Do you want people to just praise everything you post or do you want them to question it and put thought behind it for themselves?
And no, you didn't clarify my doubts, because your way of arguing isn't easy to follow. Actually it's hard to follow your thoughts, because you tend to extravagate and sometimes speak weird "English". It's also hard to get behind "that's just how I see it, eat it or go away". I am still not convinced you can reliably find BSZ. I am still not convinced your counter-suite and Snapcaster beatdown are enough to beat SnT consistently.
You don't have to convince me. I understand that. But please, if you try to, don't make it sound like we are (or actually call us) idiots just because we don't take everything you say for granted.
I hope you are mature enough to understand this as constructive criticism, not a bash or something. As I said, I am grateful for input.
Unfortunately you aren't mature enough. Telling me to go to hell in your native language is a great move to deal with criticism.
You compared your situation to Galileo. So according to the analogy we are wrong and you are right, but we just fail to see it. That's exactly what I meant with the high horse.
With cutting Wishes you rely on much more to actually find the Zenith (more mana, more draws, more cards). Ignorance is bliss, I guess.
I didn't say that you should extend the matchup against Chalice decks, just that sometimes it's possible. Against most of the decks that pack Chalice of the Void, you're going to have about three turns after the Chalice before you either get hit with Blightsteel Colossus or, much more likely now, a whole bunch of plainswalker activations. There are a few rare games where you can wait until turn 6-7 to go off, but most of the time the decks that pack Chalice are way too fast, which is why I prefer to have access to a Rebuild.
I'm not disagreeing with you on Wipe Away and Omniscience. The only reliable way to get them is to board in some number of Wipe Away, which is I think your point. I'm agreeing with you.
Finally, if you're going to suggest something that is quite frankly pretty earth-shattering (cutting a card that's been in the deck since the beginning), are you honestly surprised that people react in a surprised manner? I'd think it would be pretty obvious. No reason to get upset about it. If you say something surprising, people are going to be surprised. I hope you don't decide to leave, it's been interesting thinking about your ideas.
Just want to chime in with this thought:
I know some lists that have been posted play Repeal in the maindeck, while others eschew the card completely, but there's a chance it may be apropos to bring it back since Dark Depths + Thespian's Stage COULD be a thing with the rules change. I'm stressing COULD a lot. Right now I'm playing Flusterstorm in the maindeck instead of Repeal.
You really don't have to be concerned about DD & Stage, as it's not a particularly good combo with so much removal running around.
Which is why I'm running Flusterstorm and not Repeal right now. I'm only bringing it up in case, for some bizarre reason, the deck actually performs.
I figured repeal was just too versatile not to run in the current meta packed with delver decks. A reliable bounce for snapcaster and any potential threat with a built in cantrip. Seems like it rounds the deck out better than flusterstorm as a MB choice.
Meta is relative to location. I see much more OmniTell decks in my area, so Flusterstorm is a more solid choice. I would agree that Repeal is a better choice if Delver decks are the large portion of your meta.
So Impulse gets a reprint in the FtV20 set:https://mobile.twitter.com/wizards_m...63747981680641
Looks nice and the flavour text is neat.
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
12 Island
2 Snap
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
3 Force of Will
4 Meditate
3 Opt
4 Reset
2 Turnabout
4 High Tide
1 Cunning Wish
2 Remand
1 Twincast
1 Brain Freeze
2 Visions of Beyond
2 Flusterstorm
//Sideboard
3 Ravenous Trap
1 Brain Freeze
1 Disrupt
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Echoing Truth
1 Rebuild
1 Turnabout
2 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
2 Wipe Away
1 Force of Will
I've just returned from vacation, and have been testing with this list a little bit. Flusterstorm is absolutely amazing.
Let me know if you have thoughts/comments
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
12 Island
2 Snap
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
3 Force of Will
4 Meditate
3 Opt
4 Reset
2 Turnabout
4 High Tide
1 Cunning Wish - useless since you have a week sb by using a wish board and the new rules break this crap into nothing since people will board in mmillions of counetrs and anti shit
2 Remand - not effective as it use to be and mage can do the same effect it does
1 Twincast - 2+x cmc
1 Brain Freeze
2 Visions of Beyond - not powered enough peek is 10x better
2 Flusterstorm
//Sideboard
3 Ravenous Trap
1 Brain Freeze
1 Disrupt - if fluster is good why this crap?
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Echoing Truth
1 Rebuild - losse the wish and add 2 of this...
1 Turnabout
2 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir - good idea if it atleast costed 3 or less
2 Wipe Away
1 Force of Will - replace it for a MB trap cause in the MU u need more counters MB trap is more effective
Aggressive bullshit removed. Treat your fellow posters with respect or don't post. Thanks. -zilla
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