Flash of defiance seems interesting though a bit narrow.
My current board is:
4 Submerge
1 Jitte
3 Spell Pierce
3 Reb
2 Grafdiggers
2 Price of Progress
There's combo hate and alot of fat creatures hate in the board. Price of progress is still insane, so it is left in the board.
In an attempt to bring some life back to this thread...
I've been thinking on how to use Young Pyromancer and I think he belongs in a tempo shell like RUG delver.
Putting it in place of Tarmogoyf, I made the decision to cut green completely.
(pardon the non-tagged list, too lazy... :D)
Maindeck:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
1 Dismember
4 Stifle
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
1 Island
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Arid Mesa
As you can see it is RUG delver's shell, minus the goyfs and mongeese... critic please. :)
To force or not to force? That is the question.
Until someone can use Young Pyromancer to a great finish then it's hard to tell. Some brave soul should join a major tournament and beat it
I am glad you posted this, and I would love to hear about some tests. I haven't gotten to do any testing lately, but my constant struggle seems to be whether to go more tempo like RUG or to keep it more aggro/burn.Originally Posted by karaxu
I do think that one of the strengths of U/R has been its ability to play non-basics and go straight burn to the dome when appropriate. So playing U/R without 3 chain lightning and at least 2 price of progress seems a bit weird.
I feel like going RUG and then swapping in Pyromancers for 'Goyf's just makes it a weaker version of RUG.
Yeah, this.Until someone can use Young Pyromancer to a great finish then it's hard to tell. Some brave soul should join a major tournament and beat it
I've been playing with the stock list, it's done very right by me. Cutting snap for a young pyro is not ideal for what this deck wants to do, get creature damage early, win with burn late. snap can win games out of nowhere. At turn two, you can cast a young pyromancer, or you can cast a 2nd delver/guide/lavamancer or whatever 1drops (burn removal, cantrip) we play. I haven't tested the pyromancer, and i feel no reason to because the original does just fine. As far as not playing price of progress:
Really? Seriously? PoP wins games out right. Those games that you have no business winning. Late game (which is what we don't want) PoP end of turn. Untap, snap, recast PoP. That's A LOT of damage against a lot of the best decks right now with greedy mana bases. I feel pretty strongly about list that don't include this card. You're nuts.
I understand that UR delver is primarily a burn deck and am very aware of the goodness of PoP, especially in the current metagame where greedy manabases are used by DeathBlade and Shardless BUG.
But the list I posted was more of making Young Pyromancer work in blue red colors. I just feel that he does not belong with Goblin guide (or in a Burn Shell for that matter) as he is slow.
Regarding the 'stock list', I agree on it being the faster list and I would even up the PoP count to 3 maindeck.
To force or not to force? That is the question.
Until someone can use Young Pyromancer to a great finish then it's hard to tell. Some brave soul should join a major tournament and beat it
Gianluca Gazzola, 6th out of 59, tournament in Verona (Italy) in July
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
1 Dismember
4 Force of Will
1 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
3 Stifle
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
2 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Mountain
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Wasteland
Sideboard
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Blood Moon
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Submerge
1 Pyroclasm
1 Rough/Tumble
1 Sulfur Elemental
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I agree with everything here. If you are gonna cut anything for young pyro, guide is probably the most ideal. If young peezy spewed out tokens with haste/flying, he would definitely be sweet, but he doesn't. For me, if this deck is going to cut a 1 drop for a 2 drop, that drop has to a) win you the game or b) put you in a position to win a turn or two from now. The fair decks all have some form of removal one way or the other. He will see most of them. Young Peezy is not a bad card in itself, it's actually brilliant. I'm just not sure that he earns a spot here.
As far as price, I've been playing 3 main deck forever and love it. I find it really hard to cut entirely out of any deck that has any kind of burn plan, when late game burn>critters. People will play around it, fetching basics, often making their lines of play more difficult as well.
Wow that's a nice finish haha Maybe I'll test a similar list.
Good finish! That list just proved that Young Pyromancer belongs in a tempo build and not in a burn shell.
That list was also basically a RUG delver's shell.Although I would probably play the full set of Stifle
To force or not to force? That is the question.
Seriously, if you are taking the RUG shell an cut green you are doing it wrong. The deck just becomes a worse version of RUG. You get worse beaters and lose the benefit of an incredible reach. Take this list with caution.
+1. This deck wants to win a lot quicker than RUG.
This is the latest list that I'm testing so far :
2 Volcanic Island
3 Mountain
3 Island
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
3 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Price of Progress
2 Spell Pierce
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
Sideboard
1 Price of Progress
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flusterstorm
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Submerge
Lots of basics and featuring a burn shell. These choices are made with Young Pyromancer in mind : I consider him a three drop, so a sturdy manabase is preferred if you constantly want U/R open on t3. About the burn shell, it's because I tend to slow play my burn/cantrips, compared to a tempo shell, where you're more often in topdeck mode with no gas in hand and a Young Pyromancer in play. With my playstyle, this is the best way to exploit Young Pyromancer, in my opinion. I'm thinking of maybe one more Snapcaster Mage for a Daze or something else, can't decide what. Price of Progress is nuts and the 2 Submerge could become Dismembers... Any suggestions?
EDIT : I'm Heresy (The Source) on MWS, if anybody wants to test things out.
Last edited by Heresy; 08-02-2013 at 11:57 AM.
Yeah, Haste would have made all the difference in the world for Young Peezy. Would have been fine to make him Rare and finally red's legacy two drop like Goyf, Bob, SfM for their respective colors. Now he is justa reasonably mana costed version of the disappointing Talrand and Guttersnipes. But in some cases the arguement could still be made for running him over Guide.
young pyromancer makes this deck way too slow, yes a tarmogoyf chump blocker is good, but there's really no point in casting a pyromancer if you cant protect it, and if you cant cast something the same turn he is out. I just recently took first at a local tournament with U/R delver, and young pyromancer was not in the list. Theres just way too many things to hurt it, (forked bolt, umezawas jitte, abrupt decay)
I think young pyromancer is realllllllly good, but not for U/r delver, in all honesty it slows the deck down, i generally would like to win by turns 3-6.
Check out this list that came 3/4 with 59 players. It's quite the interesting list. Let's discuss young pyromancer, nivmagus elemental and flusterstorm in here. It's odd that there is a lack of stifle, but he seemed to place well...thoughts?
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=5352&d=230869
I'm just getting back into magic again after a long absence, but wouldn't Young Pyro and Niv Elemental not work well together at all. It seems like you would run just one of them... and young pyro with snapcasters is much better than with Niv Elementals. Or I'm mis understanding the rules.
I think you misunderstand. I' ve been testing and NivMagus and Young Pyromancer work Amazingly well together. Especally with 'free' spells. It can produce a lot of tokens and counters and really explode quickly, which is what you look for in UR.
The list is strong. I would rather Snapcaster in this build than Lavamancer, with the Phyrexian spells, and would actually (for this type of build only) replace the chain lightning with Gut Shot, and place a couple of Ground Rift in the sideboard.
Clout of the Dominus should be considered in the board also against STP and Abrupt Decay decks, as it is fantastic on both NivMagus and Delver, both pumping them and making them hexproof.
I like it and am glad he did well with it. Don't know if it can challemge the standard list, but it is certainly a good and valid approach.
I just went 4-0 with this list (-1 Grim Lavamancer, +1 Fire // Ice) in our small local tournament and I've been pretty impressed, although I'd like to play more burn and counters (Snapcaster, I miss you). Still not sure about Nivmagus, as I've only cast one in eleven games. Matchups were Shardless BUG 2-1, MUD (featuring turn 1 Chalice in every game followed by Thorn or Lodestone Golem) 2-1, Manaless Dredge 2-1 and 4c-Cascade 2-0.
Pyromancer was a beast in all of the matchups, so I will continue testing this shell.
Yeah, NivMagus would have to prove himself to earn a spot over Snapcaster, but the list with the Probes and Flusterstorms is made for NivMagus.
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