Snapcaster Mage was played by some people and I never heard anything good about the card. We don't play enough lands to support him. Simic Charm, on the other hand... I think I'll test it!
has anyone tested hidden gibbons vs decay decks?Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning
ive tested diverts and i cant draw them when i needed them..
will be trying a single snap tomorrow...currrently running on 3goyfs, 4geese, 4 delvers..
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If you like Simic Charm as a route try Vines of the Vastwood seems like it would curve better with the deck.
On the subject of Abrupt Decay how much play testing has there been on Repeal or Curfew/Chain of Vapor? Repeal is extremely versatile (potentially cheap on bouncing delver and nabs a draw) where as Curfew/Chain are efficient (manawise).
I personally like the idea of curfew especially when you can nab hexproof on their side while protecting your beaters.
You defined my trouble with Divert very precisely!
I already bought Gibbons. But never tried them. (Same for the Eyes of the Wisent.)
Curfew has the added bonus of removing Emrakul/Tombstalker (under correct circumstances).
I still wish there'd be something better than these cards (thouhg Repeal is nice). We already play Submerge for emergency save of Goyfs (although it's -2 CA), so I'm not sure if another boomerang is reasonable. I'd like something more effective. I'd even think about Misdirection, but it has some of the troubles of Divert (e.g. you need a second target for Decay, and sometimes, esp. when our plan is extremely well working - read: bolt their DRS, blast their Delver, snare their Library, fetch-merge their Goyf and pierce their Liliana - you may find yourself unable to redirect the spell) and also brings card disadvantage.
I'd stay away from Curfew, as Emrakuls don't see much play and in any other matchup they'll just return the less annoying creature (read: BB Elf) and try to incorporate Repeal into board. Sadly, I don't see any empty slot, except for maybe one of the Submerges, which dissapointed me yesterday. (But ok, it was me badly siding...)
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Sylvan Library.
I want to add a little bit on the Library topic, but before I procceed, I really wish to make it clear that I like the card and feel it's a powerhouse. The reasons why I don't use it in Thresh are these:
First of all, I think that there's a finite number of cantrips/filter spells in any deck. Yes, I know of decks like 16cantrips storm, etc. but these are extremities, also their game plan completely differs and lastly, their cantrips work as a pseudoBolts. But still no one in his clear mind would play 59_cantrips.dec, you really need something to win with.
This brings us to the Library. We already play enough filtering and are arguably the most stable deck of the whole format, Waste-mulls not counting; definitely we're the most consistent. (Altjhough I liked the pre-Misstep, pre-Delver lists - made completely of playsets - the most.) So when it comes to filtering (lets set aside Library's card draw for a while), we're already fine (esp. head-drill/Probe versions of the deck), and the last thing we need is a card filter as slow as Library (it won't work sooner than turn 3, but more realistically turn 4 or later - Daze setbacks, Wastelands, urge to keep open mana for Pierce/Stifle), namely when our deck's "four-ofs only" structure doesn't need much twiddling above the eight already presented fillers to let us find the exact necessary card. We don't play a deck where you need to find a three-cards combo or search for a one-of in sixty cards or don't play cantrips (imagine IDK deck like Aluren, Maverick, you name it), every card we draw is live - at least most of the times.
Also, Sylvan Library is especially powerful in decks designed to misuse it (lots of silver bullets and filtering, multiple instances of lifelink, whatever) and then again in decks that are meant to play (and win in) the long game, as this power is incrased with every draw step, with every fetchland. Thresh is not designed for grindy games (althought it may win them, of course) and 95% of time we're the beatdown. Guess what this tells about Library... After all, we're The Tempo Deck of Choice.
Card draw is not irrelevant, though, but Sylvan Library is not Necropotence and every card hurts, so the draw should be used only when really needed/safe. (I know that all the fetchland-thinning junkies that are willing to Ad Nauseam into Emrakul beacuse "card advantitch matterz dude" will differ, but lets pretend that this site is visited by reasonable gentlemen only.) Again, this comes down to the fact that there are other card advantage possibilities (though maybe not that easily incorporated as Library and/or not that powerful as one-of), but if I'd really go for raw card draw, I'd slam in three Ancestrals and be done with it. (Which is still an option instead of the three randoms - after all, we don't win sooner than turn 5 and the usual "pitch to FoW" reasoning also counts.)
Also, Library can't neither attack nor block.
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Long edit:
Played Thresh with a very unsatisfying result yesterday. The whole thing was a major dissapointment since the very moment I left the job and realized I'm out of fuel and don't have time to ride to my favourite cheap gas station.
As few times before: I wanted to play something bad, preferably Terrageddon before I'll sell my Savannahs, but on the evening prior to tournament I was lazy to sleeve it. Also, I still miss third japanese (or second and third chinese) Mystic Enforcer to complete the deck and I don't feel like I wish to play many of the english ones I got, esp. the TSP ones.
I used the above deck, I didn't change anything in it. Tournament was visited by whopping number of eight players; this should be enough of a warning for me, but I registered anyway.
Round 1, Dominique who's called Nicolas for some reason (or vice versa) with ANT
He borrowed the deck five minutes before registration's end and was learned how to play IT+LED, 2xDrit+AdN and told to not fear anything.
g1: I mulled a Waste-only, Dominiqolas started. He offered Duress twice, taking Snare and Stifle. I played Goyf and on his nine life he played some cards and then LED, LED, Crit which I countered with BSed Daze (sadly this BS learned me that I won't have any blue card in the next two tops, which was quite a letdown to say the least - also, though my Dismeber is oriental, I nearly vomit when I draw it in the said BS).
To this failed CRit he conceded in response. I was so shocked that I sighed, so now he responded to my "you're kidding me?" with "oh, I see I am supposed to try it again on next turn and hope you don't draw anything to improve your nigh completely non-blue hand to stop my IT". So on his next turn he played IT, quite incorrectly timed the LEDs sacrifice only after IT resolved, but as he went for PiF it didn't matter and to my great chagrin, the first game resulted in my loss with me sitting on a FoW with no fodder for it.
sb: I took out removal except for Bolt or two, some Mongooses as they are slow, added Blasts, Flusterstorm, grave hosers and Clique.
g2: We exchanged some discard and counterspell, then I played Delver a turn too soon which left me without means to interact. Luckily he was unable to go for the throat, but I didn't learned from my mistake and instead of building mana after I flipped Delver, I wasted his USea, thus leaving me with two lands open against his one land. Much to my great regret, Dominiquegolas went for it on the next turn with land, two Petals, LED and CRit. I BSed and Pierced CRit (should have played just the Pierce from hand, but I wished to have perfect information - and a possible FoW - before I'll decide what to do, so I BSed first). This left me completely tapped and he just sacced the LPs to pay for the Pierce, CRit resolved, then several ITs later (sadly he found this line, I hoped he loses to AdN) his ToA resolved with me sitting duck. Needles to say, I held two Stifles and as he used the IT chain, he hadn't had any way how to Duress me of them...
Very dissapointing.
Round 2, Peter, UBWg DRS
g1: I sat on Stifle for turns of which he had not known, but guessed because of my non-activity. In the meanwhile I Dazed lots of his stuff that he thrown against me - only thanks to the threat of Stifle. I sticked Mongoose, then finally got rid of Stifle when I pitched it to counter Jitte. He flashbakced Souls and chumped or what, then I Dismembered the 2nd token. Delver ate Swords, DRS joined the party, Lili entered the arena and I then conceded when my situation was unsustainable. It was a bad surprise and quite an anticlimax when I post-game found two Bolts on the top ready to burn both elf and the PW. So I conceded while still having a chance.
sb: out Some mix of this and that, some FoWs, Dismember, IDK what else; in came Rough/Tumble and Sulfur dude, also Clique to overload his removal, Needle, imho I forgot about Cage, I also took artifact removal, of course, and two Submerges.
g2: This game was pretty fast. Deck done what it had to do. Unuckily I didn't realize he play just a sole Trop for some reason, and I didn't took out the Submerges for the 3rd game. This had to become a source of my major dissapointment in g3.
sb: He used cards from sb as Souls tokens. Seen Confidant amongst them, I took out Rough.
g3: Basically this was all about my brainfart and the fact I didn't realize that a "Volc, Waste, no cantrip" hand won't get anywhere. At least I Needled DRS, but then my only threat was Blasted (guess which one) and my breach continued as the flow of my green lands never burst out. After some time he had two DRS, a Snappy, some 1/x dude (SFM?) and some 2/x guy which I thnk was Confidant. (So he either takes out Confidants when on draw, or maybe he just took out one and "inadvertently" showed me him as a Souls token in g2 to misinform me.) Much to my great sadness and frustration I was still unable to draw Trop, and I was also pissed that I took out Rough. Morevoer, he knew of my two Submerges I sbed against Goyfs (of which he played zero), so he didn't play his Trop/Bayou.
Time was called with me having nothing but lands in play. I was down to 14 life and he had 7 power on table. To my great dissapointment his Confidant didn't show Emrakul, unluckly my BS didn'T show any Bolt, so I ignominiously lost in two attacks.
I dropped after this match.
Then I moved on to the guy that was previously thrilled with my Depths I took to repurchase. He offered me a whopping 25 cents above the repurchase price to which I responded in not really polite way as I definitely wasn't in a mood for this and took the offer like an offense. I moved to the desk and to my really great dissapointment we've realized that of the four Depths (all bought from shop, btw), one is on the threshold of played and the other has "corrected" border with a marker so it's definitely unsellable. At leat I got rid of the other three... (And then a pale bought BB Demonic Tutor.)
Woeful evening. I would call it dissapointment; mild dissapointment at least.
There are very few things to learn from this, but if there're any, I think it'll be those:
1) The ANT loss. Deck is so powerful and our permission light (though numerous), that even illiterate opponent may win. Also:always evaluate game state! I could have lost when I tapped for the DElver (following the premise "thou shall present clock") isntead of building base and sculpting hand. The second game was definitely lost due to my bad work with cantrips and mainly because I wasted opponent in incorrect moment.
2) The sb mistakes, mainly the Submerges in that were unplayable, but also the Rough/Tumble nonsense. I should have kept it in, after all it's nice to two-for-one the opponent.
3) The completely unreasonable keep in R2g3.
Totally unsatisfactory and I think I'll shelve the deck for a while.
Last edited by Bed Decks Palyer; 08-09-2013 at 06:52 PM.
My biggest concern about Snapcaster would be that he makes the deck even more susceptible to graveyard hate. He also has some slight anti-synergy with both Goyf and Mongoose, what with the whole shrinking your GY thing.
Hey guys what do you think of Ghost Quarter as a sideboard card? It could come in versus decks without basics obv like other tempo decks and deathblade. To low impact perhaps?
Lands used it against me back when I was playing jund to great effect.... but they had crucible/ exploration.
I like loam better, honestly. I know grinding is usually not what we want to be doing but its offensive and defensive uses make it a solid one-of, imo
"Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."
I write articles about Legacy Death and Taxes. Check them out.
I don't think you'll need it, also it eats precious slots. It's good in Lands, because you want to completely lock them out of lands, but this ain't RUGs main plan, you just slow their development and in the mean time beat with creatures.
Long time ago people talked about Plaxmanta as an answer to Abrupt Decay.
Probably has the same problems as Divert, Simic Charm, and Vines of Vastwood in that it is too conditional and too mana-intensive, but it does give a flash body that is a 2/2.
"Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."
It's funny the way Canadian Threshold hasn't changed much since Innistrad (Sep 2011), and it's still putting up wonderful results. 2 years rocking Legacy for the lulz.
For those playing Gitaxian Probe maindeck, how many do you play? 2 seems right to me, but I really miss my 6th burn slot, be it Chain Lightning, Dismember or Forked Bolt #2.
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
I wish I could upvote. T1 delver ftw!
"Don't mess with me, lady. I've been drinking with skeletons."
I write articles about Legacy Death and Taxes. Check them out.
Yes, this is incredible. I remeber when a friend of mine seen me buying the set of Delvers and he smiled "ain't that nice to improve the deck for one dollar?" Delver is lovely card, though overpowered, no questions about it; also the transform mechanic stinks, but well, one can't have everything.
Ive seen the bURG lists floating around for DRS but they seem a little too greedy. otoh has anyone tried out something a little less intensive like 1 underground sea for 2 abrupt decay as removal 5-6?
-The Treefolk MasterYou just sent him to the place were brain cells go to die. The Las Vegas of The Source, if you will.
I'd be hesitant to cut fetch (not to mention dual) for such a little gain as the two Decays. You need both red and green land to cast your stuff and now you'd add a black dual? Moreover just because of two spells that need another dual to cast? I don't think it's worthy an inclusion, because you'd go fetch-Volc for Bolts, fetch-Trop for creatures, fetch-Sea for Decay and then every Waste leaves you without red/green for your most important spells, while you'll sit on Sea and hope to draw the one remaining card that matters.
Running DRS is actually less greedy because it fixes mana. I don't think splashing black for *only* Decay is worthwhile. DRS provides a trump in various matchups, as well as providing additional reach to make up for the lower amount of burn.
Green/Blue is the primary color of both RUG and BURG, so you're typically fetching up a Tropical as your first dual. The red and black are really just there for removal and sideboard options. With the BURG list I've been playing I've rarely felt that mana was a problem.
Ah that makes sense. Haven't sleeved up TT in awhile and I was just thinking of abrupt decay not the deck as a whole. So on that note do traditional TT players feel bURG is the way forward? Is the splash even needed?
-The Treefolk MasterYou just sent him to the place were brain cells go to die. The Las Vegas of The Source, if you will.
The splash isn't worth cutting goyf, or goose for. I tested it, and deathrite's mana ability isn't particularly relevant if you play the deck properly. His other abilities make him reasonable, but goose suffers heavily from his inclusion. Abrupt decay while quite good, didn't add anything more to the deck. We already had answers to those cards. The mana also felt much much worse.
The typical creature configuration for the BURG lists is: 4/4/3/2 delver, goose, shaman, goyf. So you don't cut either creature. Some lists still retain all 4 Goyf. The tension between Goose and Shaman is also being overestimated; rarely do the two interfere.
I'm not going to argue that BURG is strictly better than straight RUG, but it does offer some tactical advantages and the usefulness of DRS is undeniable. The mana ability is particularly relevant in tempo mirrors, where being able to play around Daze/Wasteland and/or play more spells per turn is incredibly relevant. It also has 'evasion' to break through a Goyf ground stall.
Decay can also get you out of of some tight spots you would otherwise lose to (e.g. Counterbalance, resolved KotR or Goyf, graveyard recursion, etc.), especially in game 1 before you bring in answers from the SB.
I view BURG as a bridge between Canadian and Team America, not necessarily as strictly better (or worse) than either of the two decks. Which flavor of tempo is best is largely going to depend on what sort of decks you end up facing.
Basically the RUG/BURG dilemma also depends on your meta. If there are decks that fall to DRS it gets different from situation when you find your shaman bolted to death every turn1.
So, I'd like to bring a question: with the rise of artifacts (namely equipments/Vial, but also random Tezz's stuff) and sb-ed enchantments (like RiP), and with the boards more and more clogged with Goyfs/Lilianas/anything, I started to tinker with an idea to reintroduce a good old creature we played: Trygon Predator.
It's hardly maindeckable, but I think that the card definitely warrants a sb slot.
Instead of trygon predator why not more ancient grudge? It hits two turns sooner can't be blocked, and flashback make canceling it much less effective.
Even for enchantments it seems underwhelming. It costs three mana and takes a full turn to do anything. I'd rather spell pierce, spell snare, force, or daze it before boarding trygon predator. But perhaps more experienced pilots think differently
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