No one comments the video Gobolord posted ? It's fantastic, i'll watch it before playing goblins in tournaments :)
In the article he (kenny dungar) talks about the lack of a need for siege-gang commander. While I have no desire to start up the krenko vs siege gang arguement if I was to run 0 siege gang what is the correct number of krenko with 5 haste lords? I think 1 seems correct but am relatively unsure
I'm testing 2 with my 5 haste lords, and it's been great.Originally Posted by trollking21
Also, I don't really agree with dropping SGC completly, but am doing so at the moment for testing sake. It is not only an all around great card, as everyone knows, but also or answer to many random situations (Moat, Ensnaring Bridge, Elephant Grass, recurring Glacial Chasm, so on, so on...).
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Id never cut SGC completely. This card wins games. The ability to shoot things is huge. Better than Krenko. I think 1-1 is the right play in a slightly favor over 2SGC
I think less important than which card is better is the question of what to do with the rest of your deck if you choose to run one or both of them. So again, because Krenko does not by himself necessarily change the board state simply by entering the battlefield, it's important to run extra haste lords when you're on the Krenko plan. It's less important to do that when SGC because everything he can do, he can do when he enters play.
Part of the conundrum with running just one SGC is that you never feel like you want to put Vial on 5 just to accommodate a singleton--that's a pretty all-in play when there's still a Ringleader or a Krenko sitting somewhere in your deck. Then again, dropping him off of Vial with open mana is the most game-changing bomb Goblins (generally) can show an opponent. So in testing I think most people just find that they'd like to be on one plan or the other--part of the reason Dungar was able to cut Warchief to 3 in favor of an extra Chieftain was precisely that he didn't have to worry about how he was going to cast that 5-drop at the top of his curve. He could just comfortably leave Vial on 4, and making his tokens bigger was almost as impactful as making his Goblins cheaper to play.
Just speaking for myself, I wouldn't want to run a singleton SGC for the reasons I just mentioned, but of course other people's mileage may vary, as it were. At the same time, running just one Krenko in the absence of another heavy-hitter, relying instead on an extra Chieftain to make my board presence stronger seems pretty brittle to me. I've been testing 2x Lightning Crafter, and alternatively, 2x Krenko. Because they occupy the same slot on the CMC scale, I have considered testing 1-1, on the theory that the Matron-for-Singleton toolkit makes the added flexibility a feasible approach. BUt in my personal experience, as well as in theory, I just think running only 1 SGC is a good way to make the deck less consistent. I'd run 2, or none.
Running two siege-gang commander is a good reason to put your vial on 5, but i don't agree that splitting 1 krenko/1 siege-gang is a mistake. If you only have 1 siege-gang you can keep your vial on 4 until :
A) you already played 3 ringleaders/krenko so there is almost the same probability to draw a 4 drop or a 5 drop
B) you naturally draw siege-gang or you want to tutor for it.
If you manage to vial in your siege-gang the game should end quickly so it doesn't matter so much if your vial is now useless.
Overall I agree that this is a bit less consistent, but i don't think it would make a huge difference in games
I don't agree at all instead with cutting piledrivers to two, which someone said is fine. In my experience, piledriver becomes much better if you run 4-of them, so that:
A) against combo you can naturally draw it, because tutoring for it would be too slow.
B) against fair decks, you have the possibility to draw one-two of them and then tutor for the second-third. In fact against fair decks i think that casting only one piledriver is often quite useless, while multiple of them can be really problematic for the opponent.
In the end I don't like piledriver at all as a 1/2 of as a tutor target.
This new list brings in so many new ideas of discussion. It seems to me that one of the biggest things about his list, was not how many or how few Krenkos/SGC's he ran but how much early action his list has. His list was stronger against combo because of 3 MD Thalia's, but also strong against early RUG, BUG, TUG, MUG...uh, all the midrangy decks because of the Tarfires. He seems to be missing a number of important pieces such as the 2nd bomb, Skirk, and shatter goblin, so a question I have is how useful is it to have all those useful early answers and are they worth putting in at the expense of, for example SGC.
Also, in talks about PD...I used to run 4, now 3 and even though some lists are cutting it to 2, Driver is good at randomly sneaking in a win. When he has been best for me is when I got, maybe 2 dudes and suddenly PD lands and hits for 5-7, thus bringing the game really close to being over. An aggressive ability like that is really hard to pass up...any thoughts?
Another thought on Krenko that doesn't get mentioned a lot I think...he is a 3/3 making him the biggest creature in the deck, bigger than a lot of other creatures and out of Pfire range. He is one of the better guys to have out if you only have 1 guy since hitting for 3 is relevant.
Last edited by Potdindy; 08-12-2013 at 01:25 AM.
Completely agree that Tarfire gives you early-turn interaction against the aggro-control/midrange decks, which is something that Goblins has sorely needed for a while now. Goblins is a weird sort of deck that has control-ish elements and basically a long-game win strategy, but Gempalm Incinerator, while he's an excellent card and not one that I'd ever consider cutting to fewer than 3, is just so weak against a T1 Shaman (which in the current meta is probably the single most common T1 play). More efficient removal is just a must, and there's basically nothing in existence with better synergy and efficiency than the tribal shock. IN my testing the card has been such a welcome addition that I wish I could run more of them.
Re: Piledriver, I think it's basically a case where people are trying to cut a little bit of the fat in favor of some other things, and PD has just become less and less relevant. Against Merfolk he's a house, and he's also pretty solid against the BUG lists, but he just dies to so many things and really, he's a pretty terrible draw when you don't already have a comfortable board presence. Because he's at his best in the later turns, the theory goes that you can cut him to 2 because you can draw him naturally at some point in the late game. As for combo, he's definitely your best beater against those decks, but that's just one piece of the meta, so 2-3 maindeck seems fine to me--it's hate cards + Lackey that will get you there against them as much as it is PD.
I've had the same thought as you about running bombs that are out of PF range. One reason SGC feels so iffy is that he dies to pretty much everything. Half the time when I drop him he just dies anyway and all I get for my effort is a few tokens. So I've been finding that running 3/3 bombs like Krenko/Crafter/Auntie puts my wincon a little bit further in range. There aren't all that many creatures in Legacy with 3+ toughness, so it's definitely nice to have (especially when a Chieftain hits the board). Still, I just love flinging guys with SGC and it almost feels like I'll have to get back on that plan sooner or later.
I think Piledriver is losing slots for the same reason folks stopped playing Zoo: Pure aggro is too limited in Legacy. You can't use Piledriver to control the game at all. While a Lackey on board forces your opponent to keep a blocker back, lords make you explosive, matron and ringleader put you ahead, utility gobbos answer your opponents plays, and MWM robs them of an attack phase, all Piledriver can do is increase the clock. So it makes perfect sense that driver sees less play as the format opens wider.
Im looking forward to playing again. Gonna get back on the Rw bandwagon. And I gotta pick up a set of Wear // Tear. PoP be damned! Lets get that manabases good n' greedy again.
I think this analysis is pretty valid. The only architype I always really want Piledriver against is Combo, and guess it is not worth that many slots anymore.
Giving a go with 1 Lightning Crafter md next time then!
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Or maybe just Sparksmith? Keep the curve lower.
I'm not running SGC, so having a goblin that can cause dmg to the face can help me get out of some situations I think.
Also, am testing a overload of 4cc dudes (2x Krenko, 2 Liege, 1 Crafter post SB) to see how BGx decks deal with them.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
How's that working out for you?
How essential is Rishadan Port to the deck (asking with respect to budget on mtgo, I don't want to pay for it if I don't have to)? If it were to be cut, would it count as utility and thus, maybe add 3 mountains in response and another goblin?
It makes up a strong part of the control aspect of the deck. In a meta filled with 3 colour decks being able to tap down colours of your choice is handy. With the rise of 1 drop mana creatures it actually gains power. Because if you force them to depend on their creatures for mana they can not block with them.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
Port is essential for giving goblins the tempo edge so Vial and Lackey can do work. If you're not running Port then you ought to be running Plateau and Thalia, so there goes your budget option. If you really want to go monoR without Ports then you should probably run an ultra-aggressive list with Warren Instigators and Chrome Mox. ScatmanX has posted some of those builds on here that he's been quite successful with. You have options.
Yeah, I agree on ports in monoR or splashing white.
What I'm wanting to find is the convergence of lists that lets you run Port in the Thalia list, since the effects complement each other so well. Is the secret that you just have to give up on RIP as being too unreliable to cast? Or maybe run two and two relics?
Here's a manabase that I am thinking of (23 lands)
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port
1 Karakas
4 Arid Mesa
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Mountain
2 Plateau
That gives us 1 + 7 + 2 = 10 sources of white, which just lets us reliably cast RIP T2. And it gives us 4 + 7 + 5 = 16 sources of red mana. So we are comfortable for RR cards.
I'm giving Chieftain/Krenko a try in the 2 SGC slots.
Last edited by magicmerl; 08-17-2013 at 03:35 AM.
Hi,
I'm running this version:
Deck: Goblins
//Lands
10 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
//Artifacts
4 Ęther Vial
//Instants
2 Tarfire
//Creatures
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Mogg War Marshal
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Stingscourger
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander
//Sideboard
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Pyroblast
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Goblin King
Display deck statistics
I can't get enough money to buy duals at the moment because I'm buying some cards to Modern decks. What do you think about this list? Would you change something? Has anybody tested Goblin Diplomats?
Regards.
Top 4ed a legacy tournament with 40 players. Good enough for 150 bucks of credit. I'll post a report later because I'm at outback on my phone.
Diplomats are terrible.
If you are locked in to monoR, then I like CotV and Mindbreak Trap as SB cards. Boartusk Liege is better than Goblin King vs Engineered Plague since it dodges Abrupt Decay.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
