Oddly enough, where the hell did you get that epic avatar? ^_^ It's been bugging me...Originally Posted by mujadaddy
Planeswalkers die to some basic Pox weapons as is. Pithing Needle from SB, Cursed Scroll, The Rack (you did include Oppression, Necrogen Mists, Liliana right?) and Ratchet Bomb. Yes that's right, in top deck mode, excluding some minor card goofiness, of which needs to be top decked anyway, you CAN BOMB THE JACE! ^_^
Yeah, I dig that avatar too.
I think the benefits of having 4 Urborg Tombs in the deck outweigh its negatives. I hate not having 2 Black to cast a Hymn or Sinkhole, which happens on uncommon occasion with 8 colorless mana in the deck. Also, remember that with the new Legend rules, Urborg falls under what shall be henceforth known as the Cradle Clause: Tap Legendary land for mana. Float it. Play new Legendary Land, sac the already tapped one, as is your choice. Tap it for another mana.
I ticked one up to 10 once (you know how grindy Pox can be) waiting in order to Bomb an Omnicience, but he Cunning Wished for a Trickbind. Oh well.Oddly enough, where the hell did you get that epic avatar? ^_^ It's been bugging me...
Planeswalkers die to some basic Pox weapons as is. Pithing Needle from SB, Cursed Scroll, The Rack (you did include Oppression, Necrogen Mists, Liliana right?) and Ratchet Bomb. Yes that's right, in top deck mode, excluding some minor card goofiness, of which needs to be top decked anyway, you CAN BOMB THE JACE! ^_^
Sadly, when the deeds were printed, there was no planeswalker yet, and hence the wordings on the card didn't hit any planeswalker and hence your lili is safe :D but so does opponent's jace =(
Oh, that's right, my bad. Scroll, Rack, Needle, yeah. I like being prepared.
Good point on the New (Old) Legend rule for Urborg, too, Beez; they keep going back & forth on that!
And I made the avatar back 6 years ago myself, G.O.B. from Arrested Development; "Illusions, Michael..."
I am thinking maybe i should remove the negators and add a fourth Tombstalker. That way I drop to 60 cards.
4 Tombstalker
4 Nihilith
4 Bloodghast
4 The Rack
4 Smallpox
4 Pox
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Darkblast
4 Shadow of Doubt
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
20 Swamp
3 Dakmor Salvage
That would make the most of the cantrip effect of the Shadow of Doubt.
I run the AD because is versatile. For JSM i have to deal with him post-SB.
I use Deeds as the sweeper usually. I was thinking of putting 1 Damnation in the side though. the extra 1cc is worth it.
4 Urborgs I believe is a must, for the reasons Beez mentioned.
I disagree about the LD path. I'd like to go as far too add the 4th Sinkhole along with a Nether Void. I'm not too sure what too cut to make the space.
@Hardcore Have you thought about running a few fetchlands for the shuffle effect to clear out deaddraws that might be floating top deck with the top
@Dwell
Should I choose to run more tops that would be something to consider. However that would be to commit myself financially in a way I can't afford right now.
This is because should I run fetch lands then I would be on the path to build pox with devastating dreams.
So that would mean buying at least four fetch and four Badlands just because I want to shuffle my deck
Pretty sexy list man. IF ONLY the card said "or sideboards" it would be really powerful
@Dwell, "I disagree about the LD path."
Yeah, it's really a philosophical difference. I reason that mana curves are ridiculously low, and I find Black's version of Control is too passive for my preferred play style. But success is success, so keep grinding 'em out!
Replace Nihilith with Nyxahthid. 1 more cmc for almost double the damage. Seeing as you're running the Rack, you get to increase the synergy using Nyx. What's more, when you topdeck Nihilith, you feel kind of sad inside. When you top deck Nyx, you smirk and be glad that he eats any Tarmogoyf like a sandwich!
Trust me, evasion isn't worth it's ineffectiveness when both players are in topdeck mode, I tested Nihilith a while ago and unless you're gonna hardcast him [yow], then I find it too awkward.
@OmniStrata
Although I agree about the evasion being only a bonus, Hardcore's list doesn't seem like it runs quite enough discard to take full advantage of Nyxathid. In his list, The Rack seems like something that the opponent slow-plays to avoid, which of course is great tempo for Pox. Just an observation that Hardcore's list goes for critters as opposed to LD or HD. You're right about topdecking, though. I'd test a 2/2 split were I him, actually.
It is true I haven't tested Nyxathid but Nihilith simply has better abilities.
It has fear. This mean only black and artifact creatures can block him, and they are all smaller (except for batterskull).
Blockers like Lingering souls just linger helplessly. Fear win me games.
Casting cost of six make him safe from abrupt decay.
He has haste when he enters play from exile zone. This in part compensate for not having the same P/T as Nyxathid.
Also I can only remember one occasion when he was countered when coming into play from suspend. He has been stifled once or twice.
He hides from pox effects, and, because of the wording about suspend on his card, I have control of when he enters play.
And lastly,; people usually have never seen nihilith before and are unfamiliar with his abilities.
Last edited by Hardcore; 08-19-2013 at 01:34 AM.
It isn't critical, but it is good. You can replace them with Cabal Pit and be fine, the deck just lacks a good way to neuter the board and Tabernacle is the best one. It is also interesting to note how Dredge is a joke matchup with Tabernacle. Extract Ichorid and you win...
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
PunishingPox BR
Hello everyone. ( Sry I know my english sux and I'm typing on my iPad :(. )
I needed a New cheap deck. I looked threw my binder and found a lot of the Pox stuff that I played a few years ago. I Ordered a few cards, sleeved up the deck and played just for fun, but to be honest, the Fun aspect on my side wasn't that big. I realized fast why I quited to Play this deck a Long Time ago.
- The deck has Big problems against swarm decks.
- Pox does not Play enough removal against decks like Deathblade, Shardl.BUG and so on.
- Jace the Mindsculptor is very Hard to handle.
- Land destruction plan is Not Good enough, if you can't handle your opponents creatures.
So how to solve the Problems? I found a few lists that splashed Green for Decay and Loam. Problem is, Decay does Not handle Jace, and Loam/Wasteland is just not good/fast enough in every matchup every Game.
So First I looked at the normal Pox lists and tried to Figure out wich cards are strong enough.
First the discard package. A deck without Blue needs discard ;). So 4x Inquisition / Hymn is a nice split.
Scondly Smallpox is an incredibly strong effect if you play without creatures. So 4x.
Then obviously Liliana of the Veil. Removal, discard, all in one. I would Play more than 4 if I could.
So here is the List that I'm brewing the Last weeks:
PunishingPox BR
Main:
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Innocent Blood
2x Dreadbore
3x Sinkhole
4x Smallpox
3x Punishing Fire
2x Chandra Pyromancer
4x Liliana of the Veil
1x Night of Souls Betrayal
1x Nether Spirit
1x Cursed Scroll
3x Sensei's Divining Top
3x Wasteland
3x Groove of the Burnwillow
1x Urborg tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Lawaclaw Reaches
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Marsh Flats
3x Badland
5x Swamp
Side:
1x Red Elemental Blast
1x Pyroblast
2x Slaughter Games
3x Thoughtseize
2x Disfigure
1x Dreadbore
2x Engeneered Plague
3x Nihil Spellbomb
So the Problem with swarming decks is now solved with Pun.Fire and the additional removal.
Chandra is nice as an additional thread, Decay proof, Wincondition, removal and Card advantage with the Top. So far very powerfull.
Until now the deck is very funny to Play. My friends are already pissed when I force them to Test against this list. Testing Partners/Decks: RUG, DeathBlade, Shardl.BUG. All at least slightly favored so far.
Would be nice if more People would Test this List to See if it's strong enough, I'm really satisfied so far :)
The List is far from being Perfect so it needs improvement...........
All this hatred toward LD makes me wish Sinkholes should have plummeted to $5.00 in price. Damn...
Technically speaking, LD and Discard both suffer from the same fundamental flaws. Neither can handle creatures that resolve, neither are strong late game, and neither disruption are considered "worthy" in the face of a game that likes counter spell type cards.
The only advantage I see going hard discard is the sharper edge you have against combo decks. In fact, you can just take the standard 'hybrid' Pox shell and replace all the Sinkhole with Wrench Mind instead. You get STRONG 2 for 1 setups and most artifacts in legacy are fine discards. Wanna chuck your Aether Vial or LED? Be my guest. Fighting Affinity? *doh* AND it matches the CMC curve perfectly and is budget friendly.
LD still does something that pure discard just cannot do. Clog the top deck. When you color screw your foes with Wasteland or Mana-Screw their 3 cmc Knight of the Reliquary, Lingering Souls, Planeswalkers, or Sword of Rape & Pillage, I find LD an absolutely essential facet of Pox that synergizes with the Discard part.
Cursed Scroll with Liliana of the Veil should be plenty of creature kill. Only horde deck I noticed that gave me trouble was Dredge. Goblins get stomped by Engineered Plague along with Elves and decks that try to function off of 2 land CANNOT function in front of wastes and sinkholes. They have low land counts and those are the decks that Pox will devour like a quick snack. Case and point? Threshold.
First of all Discard is much more flexible than LD. Great against combo and basically against every other deck. Not great as a topdeck in the lategame, but still the best if you're not playing blue.
The point about Sinkhole, and don't misunderstand me. I love this card. Just bought a playset a few weeks ago, but please be honest to yourself. How many games have you lost against a creature or planeswalker with a sinkhole in your hand?? I a lot and that frustated me. The argument to colour screw your opponent in a format that is full of DeathriteShamans is not strong enough. A lot of the time I wished the sinkhole was something else, mostly a removal.
About MindWrench. Hmm I don't thinck that this deck needs more discard especially not an additional cc2 spell + the power level of this spell is not strong enough.
I mean there is a reason why Pox is not a viable deck atm. The mono version is such a chaep deck, so even that should be an argument for playing the deck. The problem is that not every card is strong enough if you look at the power level. The cards that are powerfull enough in my opinion are Liliana, Inquisition + Hymn, Smallpox. The rest can be discussed.
I will work on this list the next weeks. Next weekend is a big tournament, maybe I will test it and report my result...................
Yesterday I went 3-1 in the local tourney.
3 Tombstalker
4 Nihilith
4 Bloodghast
4 Order of the ebon hand
4 Smallpox
3 Pox
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Darkblast
4 Shadow of Doubt
4 The Rack
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
19 Swamp
2 Dakmor Salvage
SB:
4 Duress
3 Lightning Greaves
4 Perish
4 Surgical extraction
My first opponent played Counterbalance with RIP and Helm combo as win condition.
It is a slow but potentially lethal deck, and one that I probably never fought before. I am used to Angels as win con, and got a bit shaken here by the novelity and didn't know how to fight it.
Perhaps I was just needing a warm up game.
Anyway I lost 0-2 but felt confident. (Btw, this was also only time during the evening that I cast Shadow of Doubt, but of course my opponent would counter it :P)
An Old Swedish nickname for UW control is "Blue Whore". You know why.
Second game was a Bye. Shit happens.
Next I was paired to fight an elf deck. We both knew what the other played.
He tried to play around my smallpoxes by only playing land on turn one, but got Hymned instead. Since his tactic didn't work, he chose to play an elf turn two. That was when I played my smallpox
In the second duel I was lucky and drew land and perish when I needed it. Or rather; I didn't get stuck on two mana.
So, 2-0 here.
Last opponent played UW Stoneblade with that UW WoG that can't be countered and that I can't remember the name of.
I was a bit worried that he played counterspells, but he had cantrips and jace instead. A bit of luck went my way in duel one when I forced him to discard his batterskull. (But then that is what hymn is all about.) Second game he mulliganed and was mana screwed. It might not have been fatal against other decks, but I started to play smallpoxes
He died to the Rack in both duels...
(well, technically in the second he scooped when I destroyed his lands. But the Rack WAS in play)
It was nice to get a better result than 2-2, or 0-4, and I look forward to next week when my secret tech have arrived by mail!
Until that time I will work on the sideboard.
I'd have to disagree that discard is great against every other deck. When fighting a deck that barfs it's hand with 1 cmc creatures, I find fast use of Smallpox and Sinkhole more effective at stopping their rush then discarding them. I've never had games with a Sinkhole in my hand while facing down a creature or planeswalker. Sinkhole isn't the kind of card I wait on, it has "cast now!" written all over it. My meta also has more basics in it then most being a more budget friendly meta and even in advanced metas, not everyone is going to show up with no basics in their decks. DRS has the same weakness as fighting an elf deck. It's nothing more than a mana dork (albeit with life gain/loss attached). True, it's a black mana dork that makes it hard to kill at times, but it is Perish feed, and us Black Mages love our anti-creature sideboards now don't we?Oddly enough, I have more use for Sinkhole top decked then many other cards. Dying to manlands is a worry for a pox player since they use the same mechanism I use to win [factory] and when Wasteland isn't available, Sinkhole saves me. Control meta hurts
With Liliana as a card that you say is 'powerful enough', why not run good old Cursed Scroll with her? When mana dorks can't live to see past the summoning sickness point, or die as a top deck, things seem to float easier. High land count allows its activation to be more reasonable and I don't mind using it to feed top decked dark rituals to. They're great for it actually.
Big props to your Shadow of Doubt tech. Reminds me of stifle for a lot of stupid tutors and fetchlands and is like an instant speed Sinkhole in a format full of fetchland. I should put them back in my deck somehow.
Isn't order of the Ebon Hand kind of inefficient? I like the rest of the list but this win con is odd. Isn't it mana hungry? Why not run Dark rituals and Nantuko Shades? Pro-white is awesome. I'm led to believe you're in a swords and Souls meta. Stromgald Crusader, Knight of Infamy
Actually the order was a more efficient threat than phyrexian negator, but still only a stop gap until arrival, today, of...
Gitaxian Probe
The next level of development for my deck:
3 Tombstalker
4 Nihilith
4 Bloodghast
4 The Rack
4 Smallpox
3 Pox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Darkblast
4 Shadow of Doubt
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
19 Swamp
2 Dakmor Salvage
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