[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

[Will_L]

Hey can anyone help me round out my sideboard? I'm playing 16 cantrip in an unknown (but probably very fair) Meta

3x Abrupt Decay
1x Tropical Island
1x Empty The Warrens
2x Chain of Vapor
2x Xantid Swarm
2x Massacre

I think Dread of Night is a better anti hate bear card than Massacre. Massacre can't be cast with Teeg out, and him, Thalia and Canonist are the 3 most important hate bears against us. The only problem I see with Dread of Night is you need two to kill Gaddock Teeg or Ethersworn Canonist, which could be annoying. One Dread of Night kills Thalia, Mother of Runes and tons of other stuff though.

If you don't like of Dread of Night and want to kill Gaddock Teeg with one card I would reccomend Infest. It is definitely expensive as a 4 mana sorcery but it's everything you want in a board wipe I think. I usually switch between Infest and Virtue's Ruin in my SB

Also if you expect a lot of Deathblade, Shardless BUG or RUG (all fair decks) then you might want to consider Carpet of Flowers for your SB.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Why Dread of Night over Disfigure? Discard? One-Time Use? I don't know about Infest, I used to try to play it when teeg first came out and it was always so lack-luster and hated the high cc. Rushing River is better in my opinion simply because its better against more things. It can handle a Teeg AND a Thalia at the same time just as Infest, but bounces a Counterbalance/Rest in Peace too. Storm has very few slots available, and the best way to win is to have well-rounded answers that can deal with one situation as well as 3 others. Just my opinion, and I know how my opinions seem to be received on this thread and apparently the website as a whole, but I still feel as though they still hold meaning.

-ABC

[Tombstalker]

Why Dread of Night over Disfigure?

mom + thalia is why I play it. Teeg is an annoyance once the other two are dealt with since he can be bounced/killed during the combo turn. Plus 2 dread is very hard for decks that run those creatures to come back from, even shutting off QPM for maverick.

[Patrunkenphat7]

A combination of Dread of Night and Disfigure is solid. Right now I am dropping a Dread of Night for a Karakas because it is still good against Thalia with a Mom board, and it deals with Teeg which is just as common in Mav. I also think the additional hate against Reanimator for their Iona is quite good. The M14 changes make it less of a liability to hold it up for EOT action.

Running Disfigure in general is important because in addition to Maverick-style decks, Deathblade generally brings in Meddling Mages, and the Disfigures hit Meddling Mages and Deathrite Shaman (which is a very good target). I wouldn't leave home without a couple Disfigure in my board.

I also think that not enough people are playing Needles. It's very good against Shardless and Jund. Hitting Spellbombs, Deathrites, and Lilianas with Needle is one of the best things you can be doing against them.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

I already thought about Needle, but then I decided I want to play Inquistion of K., because it hits the annoying cards and builds thresh. Otoh, IoK does little against cards that are already deployed (maybe not Lili, but DRS, Spellbombs, etc. are fast) and they will not bring artifact hate against us, so the Needle might survive.
How many Needles you play?

[Patrunkenphat7]

I already thought about Needle, but then I decided I want to play Inquistion of K., because it hits the annoying cards and builds thresh. Otoh, IoK does little against cards that are already deployed (maybe not Lili, but DRS, Spellbombs, etc. are fast) and they will not bring artifact hate against us, so the Needle might survive.
How many Needles you play?

My SB looks like this:

1 Tropical Island
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Echoing Truth
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Disfigure
1 Karakas
2 Pithing Needle
1 Inquisition of Kozilek

The Swarms/Truth are pretty specific hate for the Show and Tell matchups playing Leylines post-SB. I run Past in Flames/Empty main with no Ad Nauseam (my list is 15th place at the Somerset Open on the SCG site), and the only change I have made since then is to swap out the Dread of Night for a Karakas. The Inquisition does a few things for me. It's good against decks like Jund as well as hatebear/permanent hate decks, but it also swaps out my singleton maindeck Thoughtseize against RUG Delver. The 2 Pithing Needles are the best cards in a couple matchups, and I really like them.

[JanoschEausH]

My SB looks like this:

1 Tropical Island
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Echoing Truth
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Disfigure
1 Karakas
2 Pithing Needle
1 Inquisition of Kozilek

The Swarms/Truth are pretty specific hate for the Show and Tell matchups playing Leylines post-SB. I run Past in Flames/Empty main with no Ad Nauseam (my list is 15th place at the Somerset Open on the SCG site), and the only change I have made since then is to swap out the Dread of Night for a Karakas. The Inquisition does a few things for me. It's good against decks like Jund as well as hatebear/permanent hate decks, but it also swaps out my singleton maindeck Thoughtseize against RUG Delver. The 2 Pithing Needles are the best cards in a couple matchups, and I really like them.

Judging from your sideboard you not seem to have any troubles with discard heavy matchups. I'm playing 2 SDT's in my sideboard for those matchups and swapping them with Ignorant Bliss sometimes. I often find myself having troubles against Hymn to Tourach than against Liliana. What do you do against those matchups?

Regarding Disfigure, i prefer Dread of Night because they answer Thalia preemtively. It's especially good against D'n'T, where they can bounce their own Thalia with their Karakas in response to spot removal.

[Sloshthedark]

Ok, no need to heaten up previous discussion however funny read that was, just to shortly react... I have no need to zealously defend no basics, gemstone or DRS paradigma(s), although GM is obvious (tested, no animals harmed, just idiots) and DRS is sole reason one would have general problem with hymn or Liliana, reading post above // obv. TES doens't give a shit about DRS...The basics, it's something from gaming xp in my metagame, not general rule to follow and I don't use it all the time, but 2 basic islands, what can you say, gives me the creeps same as Prosacks haircut online... Btw. before you frivolently consider embarasing cards like disfigure without warning let my introduce you to my oldschool favourite - Lightning bolt - Killing players and inferior creatures since 1993...

[Vandalize]

Judging from your sideboard you not seem to have any troubles with discard heavy matchups. I'm playing 2 SDT's in my sideboard for those matchups and swapping them with Ignorant Bliss sometimes. I often find myself having troubles against Hymn to Tourach than against Liliana. What do you do against those matchups?

Regarding Disfigure, i prefer Dread of Night because they answer Thalia preemtively. It's especially good against D'n'T, where they can bounce their own Thalia with their Karakas in response to spot removal.

Against Discard heavy decks, you sandbag a Past in Flames and win. That's the strategy.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Btw. before you frivolently consider embarasing cards like disfigure without warning let my introduce you to my oldschool favourite - Lightning bolt - Killing players and inferior creatures since 1993...

Martin, I love you.

So, looks like I may find soem time to try ANT on Mon, and I'm really interested how the Needle sb will work. But... I'm still undecided, and maybe I'll keep the IoK instead.

[Patrunkenphat7]

Judging from your sideboard you not seem to have any troubles with discard heavy matchups. I'm playing 2 SDT's in my sideboard for those matchups and swapping them with Ignorant Bliss sometimes. I often find myself having troubles against Hymn to Tourach than against Liliana. What do you do against those matchups?

Regarding Disfigure, i prefer Dread of Night because they answer Thalia preemtively. It's especially good against D'n'T, where they can bounce their own Thalia with their Karakas in response to spot removal.

There isn't a lot of SB "hate" for discard because your PiF engine is designed to be effective against those decks. The Inquisition is swapped in for a Cabal Therapy against non-blue discard decks. Ignorant Bliss doesn't actually do anything 95% of the time, and I continue to be surprised that people run that card. It never stops their turn 1 targeted discard (unless you are on the play and blow a Lotus Petal for it). It only stops their Hymn if you are on the play AND leave up a whopping two mana, one of which is a red source that you will have to fetch for. The card is just super awkward.

[Tombstalker]

Play SDT its king against discard and with cards like LDV they are even better.

[Patrunkenphat7]

Play SDT its king against discard and with cards like LDV they are even better.

I mean SDT is mediocre against discard. You need a combination of several cards to win with this deck, and floating a card on top is both inefficient and just mediocre in general. It obviously plays very well with LDV though, and I would probably fit it in somewhere if I played that card. Right now I simply prefer to have more tutors (Grim Tutor) for the consistent Past in Flames kill.

[Tombstalker]

Fair enough, I have never committed to purchasing grims so I've only experienced BW and LDV.

[DireLemming]

I mean SDT is mediocre against discard. You need a combination of several cards to win with this deck, and floating a card on top is both inefficient and just mediocre in general. It obviously plays very well with LDV though, and I would probably fit it in somewhere if I played that card. Right now I simply prefer to have more tutors (Grim Tutor) for the consistent Past in Flames kill.

It's not just about floating cards on top, it's also about developing your mana. Once you have 4+ lands and a couple of mana rocks out, you no longer need a combination of cards to go off but a single tutor or engine card.

[Lemnear]

It's not just about floating cards on top, it's also about developing your mana. Once you have 4+ lands and a couple of mana rocks out, you no longer need a combination of cards to go off but a single tutor or engine card.

on opposite, those are the exact conditions in which DRS eats you alive: Without a hand, in topdeck-mode

[Patrunkenphat7]

It's not just about floating cards on top, it's also about developing your mana. Once you have 4+ lands and a couple of mana rocks out, you no longer need a combination of cards to go off but a single tutor or engine card.

Actually when you have 4+ lands and a couple "mana rocks" (does this mean Lotus Petals?), the only card that is relevant by itself is a natural Ad Nauseam unless you have a bunch of rituals, maybe some Probes, and a tutor in your GY for a natural Past in Flames. You could Infernal for an Ad Nauseam and cast it with no mana floating with 5 land and 2 "mana rocks" in play, but that is pretty poor. There aren't many decks in the format that you can still Ad Nauseam against on turn 6+.

SDT is a fine card with LDV, but it is mediocre in non-LDV situations.

[Tombstalker]

SDT is a great card better than the alternative preordain IMO. Opponents hate seeing it and I do too when across from me. Synergy with LDV is obvious but it's also very welcome when discard takes your cantrips or for digging you out of bad situations in general. It's also good at drawing out FoW on turn 1 occasionally, something no other cantrip will do. I played it in the past with burning wish and thought it too slow but dropping wish for vault has made me really grow to appreciate it. It can also make hands keepable that wouldn't otherwise be with only a single cantrip instead. It can even build its own storm if you have the mana. Very versatile but often at the expense of speed .

[Patrunkenphat7]

SDT is a great card better than the alternative preordain IMO. Opponents hate seeing it and I do too when across from me. Synergy with LDV is obvious but it's also very welcome when discard takes your cantrips or for digging you out of bad situations in general. It's also good at drawing out FoW on turn 1 occasionally, something no other cantrip will do. I played it in the past with burning wish and thought it too slow but dropping wish for vault has made me really grow to appreciate it. It can also make hands keepable that wouldn't otherwise be with only a single cantrip instead. It can even build its own storm if you have the mana. Very versatile but often at the expense of speed .

I definitely dislike Preordain, but Top is 2 mana to Ponder that doesn't have a shuffle option without a fetch. Obviously it's more complicated than that because it gets insane the more mana you have, but if you are playing this deck efficiently you shouldn't be putting 3+ mana into one card unless you are winning or tutoring for exactly what you need. I see how this is sweet with Vault though. I think there are enough good card options in Storm to not need significantly worse cantrips past the Bstorms, Ponders, and Probes. Like if you aren't skimping on discard and tutors there's probably not space.

[Tombstalker]

I am actually skimping on discard (6) and tutors too I guess since I'm absolutely done with wish and don't own grims so I run IT and 2 LDV. I must admit though that card is seriously underrated. The more I play it the better it is, just takes a little getting used to. It's like a UB ad naus EoT and I love how it can bait out counter magic if needed or just win plus any cantrip in hand basically turns it into a grim tutor. Can't believe I dismissed this card at one time with limited testing.

On SDT again, are you saying you would choose more discard over 2 tops? 7 felt fine before SDT + LDV when I dropped to 6 comfortably. 8 always felt like overkill. That said heavy disruption like jund and thresh is a pain at times.