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Thread: Pactman (UWR Delver tempo)

  1. #1
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    [Deck]TitanPact Delver

    I developed this deck after realizing how powerful the Pact cycle could be if you could get around their upkeep triggers. Pact of the Titan, Slaughter Pact and Pact of Negation at the end of their turn (optimally in multiples) can be a backbreaking tempo play, and well worth the card and the 1 mana used to get by the triggers (Angel's Grace). Young Pyromancer ties the whole package together with a way to trade cards for an often overwhelming board advantage on turn 2.

    *updated list*

    Delver of Secrets x4
    Young Pyromancer x4
    Snapcaster Mage x4

    Angel's Grace x4
    Pact of the Titan x4
    Pact of Negation x2
    Slaughter Pact x4

    Serum Visions x4
    Gitaxian Probe x4

    Trickbind x2
    Lightning Bolt x4
    Spell Pierce x2
    Snapback x1

    Scalding Tarn x4
    Arid Mesa x4
    Steam Vents x3
    Watery Grave x1
    Hallowed Fountain x4
    Plains x1

    Trickbind is also useful at stifling a pact trigger in a pinch, and has other applications across different matchups. However, 2 mana is stretching it, and I've been happy with just a pair in my testing so far.

    All of your important interaction is going to be in the first 3 turns of the game. Spell Pierce is very strong here because you mostly don't care about the creatures they play, because yours has evasion, or are much bigger at that stage of the game, or you outnumber them by a large margin (or all 3). Slaughter Pact and Bolt playing creature control means you really only have to worry about their spells. Pierce is a 1-mana Negate for their removal spells, Pyroclasms, and planeswalkers.

    30 instants and sorceries mean that Delver flips very often, and Serum Visions help set up the top for when you don't blind flip them.

    The singleton Plains and Island are there because of Blood Moon and Ghost Quarter. If they deprive you of a way to make white after you've cast your pact(s), it's game over. Hedge against those situations with a basic.

    Hallowed Fountain is your most desired first turn play (or access via fetch) because it plays Delver or Serum Visions, and gives you the option to Angel's Grace on your following upkeep if you lucked into a pact or 3 in your opening hand.

    Be very careful of when you play the pacts. If at all possible, wait until the end of their turn so they can't strip the Angel's Grace in your hand with hand disruption causing you to lose in a most embarrassing fashion.

    Other spells that are currently on my radar:

    Remand
    Vapor Snag
    Noxious Revival
    Gut Shot
    Peer Through Depths
    Mutagenic Growth
    Grim Lavamancer
    Boros Charm

    Lacking a true gauntlet, the sideboard is very general. Especially since my focus thus far has been tuning the main.

    Boros Charm x2
    Surgical Extraction x2
    Wear // Tear x2
    Rest in Peace x2
    Stony Silence x2
    Pact of Negation x1
    Burrenton Forge-tender x2
    Torpor Orb x2

    If you have any suggestions or thoughts on the deck, I'm always welcome to different viewpoints. Thanks for taking the time to read to read this!
    Last edited by Fortunae; 08-23-2013 at 05:42 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: Pactman (UWR Delver tempo)

    This is a wicked cool idea, but I question how reliable it is. You're running 10 spells that are completely unplayable without Angel's Grace, or at the very least not great (since Trickbind kind of allows for some redundancy, but only lets you use one Pact at a time and costs twice as much). A counter on your Grace kills you. Not drawing a Grace kills you. Not drawing the "right" pacts kills you, since you're stuck with too many dead cards. Not leading off with a Pyromancer really turns your ideal win into a crummy, "gee, I hope Delver gets there" sort of thing that you're not supporting with more than a couple counters and 4x Lightning Bolts.

    Granted, you're running pretty much the maximum amount of cantrippage allowable in Modern, but still.

    Why the 2x Snapcaster instead of 4? If you're all-in on the Pact plan, consistent Snapcasters give you an absurd amount of extra pressure.

    Turn 2 Pyro
    Turn 3 Titan, Snapcaster, Titan
    turn 3 Angel's Grace, swing for what...12?

    Snapcaster gets you more dig, more chump blockers, more counters, more removal...he seems too good not to max out on.

    I'd look into 4/2 split for Slaughter and Negation, too. Negation relies on them doing anything, Slaughter clears blockers.

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    Re: Pactman (UWR Delver tempo)

    Quote Originally Posted by evanmartyr View Post
    This is a wicked cool idea, but I question how reliable it is. You're running 10 spells that are completely unplayable without Angel's Grace, or at the very least not great (since Trickbind kind of allows for some redundancy, but only lets you use one Pact at a time and costs twice as much). A counter on your Grace kills you. Not drawing a Grace kills you. Not drawing the "right" pacts kills you, since you're stuck with too many dead cards. Not leading off with a Pyromancer really turns your ideal win into a crummy, "gee, I hope Delver gets there" sort of thing that you're not supporting with more than a couple counters and 4x Lightning Bolts.

    Granted, you're running pretty much the maximum amount of cantrippage allowable in Modern, but still.

    Why the 2x Snapcaster instead of 4? If you're all-in on the Pact plan, consistent Snapcasters give you an absurd amount of extra pressure.

    Turn 2 Pyro
    Turn 3 Titan, Snapcaster, Titan
    turn 3 Angel's Grace, swing for what...12?

    Snapcaster gets you more dig, more chump blockers, more counters, more removal...he seems too good not to max out on.

    I'd look into 4/2 split for Slaughter and Negation, too. Negation relies on them doing anything, Slaughter clears blockers.
    Thanks for the input! Reliability is the only problem, but so far I have to mulligan to 5-6, or "fizzle" in 2 out of 7 goldfishes, which isn't that bad. Also, keep in mind that Trickbind and AG both have split second, so you'll never have a situation where a counterspell makes the pact triggers kill you.

    It seems like a Magical Christmas Land scenario, but you'd be surprised at how often you have turn 1 Delver, EOT Pact of Titan, Angel's grace on upkeep, and swing for 7 on turn 2. It happens to me once every 10 games I goldfish. I'm most concerned about Inquisition, as forcing me to discard a key component on their first turn can literally destroy any chance I have at victory. Redundancy is a good way to fight that, but IDK if Trickbind is good enough to warrant more than 2-of.

    I'll test with 4 Snapcasters as well. Your assertion is correct, and only having 30 instants and sorceries isn't going to affect Delver's flip rate too much.

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    Re: Pactman (UWR Delver tempo)

    I'll take a shot at it once I get back to my laptop, but I cannot approve of the name, since this is the name I gave Hive Mind.

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    Re: Pactman (UWR Delver tempo)

    Thanks for the suggestion about running a full 4 Snapcasters Evanmartyr- the threat density feels much more comfortable now. Pact of the Titan + Snapcaster is 10 damage swinging on turn 3 for the low cost of just 3 cards and 2 mana. Talk about tempo!

    As to the name of the deck, alas I thought I was being clever and original The only other name I've considered (but rejected because Pactman is such a sweet name) is Titanpact Delver.

    Ugh. I need to convince my playgroup to play less Standard and more Modern. I'm itching to take this to a tourney, no matter how small.

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    Re: Pactman (UWR Delver tempo)

    Great idea here. Really liked.

    Somethings you might consider:
    - You really don't need all the 4 Fountains and Vents. I'd consider running 2 more fetchs (1 R and 1 W) in place of one one each.
    - With that change, you'd be up to 10 Fetchlands. That means that, in a tempo oriented deck loke yours, Steppe Linx would be awesome. If you change 1 of your lands into a Sacred Foundry, then even the Scalding Tarns would be able to cast him.
    - Are 4 B Pacts really necessary? What non-black creature do you really need to kill that fast? I'd suggest cutting at leas 2 of those for 2+ Vapor Snag. It does pretty much the same in a fast deck like this, ping for 1, and can be Snapcasted (and can sometimes save a dude you really want to be saved).
    Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.

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    Re: Pactman (UWR Delver tempo)

    Quote Originally Posted by ScatmanX View Post
    Great idea here. Really liked.

    Somethings you might consider:
    - You really don't need all the 4 Fountains and Vents. I'd consider running 2 more fetchs (1 R and 1 W) in place of one one each.
    - With that change, you'd be up to 10 Fetchlands. That means that, in a tempo oriented deck loke yours, Steppe Linx would be awesome. If you change 1 of your lands into a Sacred Foundry, then even the Scalding Tarns would be able to cast him.
    - Are 4 B Pacts really necessary? What non-black creature do you really need to kill that fast? I'd suggest cutting at leas 2 of those for 2+ Vapor Snag. It does pretty much the same in a fast deck like this, ping for 1, and can be Snapcasted (and can sometimes save a dude you really want to be saved).
    The manabase does need work. I'd like to add 1 Watery Grave so that I can actually pay for Slaughter Pact, as that has come up on a few occasions. Steppe Lynx would be a good turn 1 threat for the deck to have, it's just a matter of finding room while not eating into the instant/sorcery count too much. I've also considered some kind of forest shockland to run Loam Lion so Pyroclasm doesn't completely wreck you. It'd probably have to be Stomping Grounds since Turn 1 you need UW, and turn 2 you need access to red for Pyromancer and Bolt.

    Honestly the only reason why Slaughter Pact isn't Vapor Snag is that costing zero mana is such a huge deal. Clearing blockers while tapped out is something the deck needs to do in order to put maximum pressure on the opponent as early in the game as the cards allow. SP allows for playing your turn 1/turn 2 threat, while simultaneously reducing their board presence.

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    Re: Pactman (UWR Delver tempo)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortunae View Post
    It seems like a Magical Christmas Land scenario, but you'd be surprised at how often you have turn 1 Delver, EOT Pact of Titan, Angel's grace on upkeep, and swing for 7 on turn 2. It happens to me once every 10 games I goldfish.

    The math says it should only happen 2.88% of the time, or one in every ~35 games (without worrying about flipped delver). For tournament play, that's not very likely to happen even once.

    Oh, if you want a flipped delver along with those cards it's down to 1.55%, or once in every ~64 games.

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    Re: Pactman (UWR Delver tempo)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    The math says it should only happen 2.62% of the time, or one in every ~38 games. For tournament play, that's not very likely to happen even once.
    My sample size is around 50, which is way too small to draw any conclusions. I was just pointing out anecdotal evidence that it does occur. That's also roughly once every 15 matches. So once every 3 tournaments or so you'll get a free win. *shrug* I'll take free wins where I can get them- it's always nice to play a deck that picks up free wins out of nowhere.

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    Re: Pactman (UWR Delver tempo)

    That was for an unflipped delver, I edited in the relevant new information.

    Also, while attacking for 7 on turn 2 is good, it isn't game over for many decks. If they have 2 Path to Exiles within the first 4 turns, they can get out of that situation fairly unscathed (this happens 12.5% of the time, if the deck is running 4 Paths, higher if they use cantrips). It's like 10 times more likely that they get 2x Paths than you get that one situation to occur.

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    Re: Pactman (UWR Delver tempo)

    More importantly, Delver dies to Bolt and other burn and 4/4 Titans can just get chumped or die to ground creatures like Goyf or Ooze or Knight. Not really a "free win". More like "a turn 4 goldfish", which is not exactly that broken in Modern.

    A "Free win" is more like drawing 28 cards and attacking for 21 on turn 1. Oh wait, Koby's deck already does that:
    2 SSG + fetchland + Faithless Looting + Goryo's Vengeance -> Griselbrand --> attack -> draw 21 --> Fury of the Horde --> attack -> draw 7 --> Fury of the Horde -> attack

    While that's not very likely to happen, there is a video of that happening in a major tournament against a flabberghasted opponent.

    The T2-T3 win is much much more likely (just needs 2 lands + Vengeance + Looting/Thoughtseize + Griselbrand). It is also a 3-card combo but Looting digs you deeper and this doesn't require a flipped Delver, so it's actually more likely than your Pact scenario and just flat out wins you the game on turn 2.

    To paraphrase a common beer commercial, "I don't usually attack for 7 on turn 2, but when I do, I draw 21 cards and do it 2 more times."

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