I'm the one who played the BUG Pod list in Baltimore. Started 4-0 beating 2 Shardless BUG, 1 MUD, 1 Deathblade, then the wheels fell off, so to speak. Lost to Miracles, 2 ANT, 1 UWR Delver. Here's the list:Originally Posted by Tao
MAIN:
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Baleful Strix
2 Coiling Oracle
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Thragtusk
1 Acidic Slime
1 Shriekmaw
1 Grave Titan
1 Deadeye Navigator
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Birthing Pod
4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Underground Sea
3 Forest
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
SIDEBOARD:
4 Force of Will
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Golgari Charm
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Baleful Strix
1 Pernicious Deed
I will be the first to admit the deck is somewhat loose, and the sideboard is sort of thrown together. I also know I broke a cardinal rule in cutting GSZ, but i wanted to try something different. Since I have sweet blue and black creatures i want to get, and because Birthing Pod is my favorite card, I wanted to try that. Deadeye Navigator is almost always a win-more card, but it did win me a game against Deathblade when I paired it with a Strix. Usually you just get Grave Titan and call it a day (this is how I most commonly won my games). Both of my ANT matches went to 3 games, Glen Elendra was nearly unbeatable for them if when I could get it in play in time.
Highlights:
-Beating Josh Cho with Volrath's Stronghold recursion
-Beating Ali Aintrazi's MUD when he had Chalices on both 1 and 3 (Podding up the Chain...)
-Sliming a Jitte that was preventing my Grave Titan from attacking
-Podding a Thragtusk beast token into Veteran Explorer before Deeding
Some Cons:
-Deck mulligans and general consistency (I mulliganed a lot and it definitely cost me one match). Brainstorm and cantrip creatures help with this somewhat, but not having GSZ obviously is a factor.
-Combo matchup is not great game 1. Therapy, Clique, Glen Elendra, and Venser can help in this endeavor.
-Playing Pod means you have a lot of strange one-offs that are insane in certain situations and can be complete bricks in others. Also requires you to have a creature you want to sacrifice.
The deck was a lot of fun to play. I don't know that I would necessarily recommend it as a viable option, and certainly it could use some tweaking.
Thanks, Zach! I guess I'll share too.
Went 3:3 at SCG Baltimore and then dropped mid game in round 7 because my EDH pod was called, (won EDH with Arcum Dagsson shenanigans).
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Baleful Strix
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
1 Simic Sky Swallower
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Ponder
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
Sideboard:
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Damnation
2 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Golgari Charm
1 Krosan Grip
2 Notion Thief
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Vendilion Clique
Wins:
Skyler with Pox
Best match of the day, every turn was a slug fest. Primeval Titan took game 1. Lost game 2 to absolute mana denial. Won game 3 with Thragtusk + Volrath's Stronghold.
All spells (can't find opponent's name)
Win game 1 due to opponent mulligan. Lose game 2. Win game 3 with Thoughtseize, Force of Will, and Scavenging Ooze
Todd A. with Reanimator
Game 1 lost to Tidespout Tyrant. Win games 2 and 3 with heavy discard.
Losses:
Zack M. with UWr Miracles
Lose game 1 to Entreat the Angels. Lose game 2 because I misplayed but was probably going to lose anyway to a Jace, the Mind Sculptor ultimate.
Travis B. with Omniclash
Game 1 I die very early, Omniscience --> Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Game 2 I mull to 6, have a hand with Thoughtseize, Thoughtseize, and Cabal Therapy. Opponent starts off with Leyline of Sanctity.
Scott H. with GU 12-Post
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
The list is really fun. The cantrips and Green Sun's Zenith made it consistent. Planeswalkers give you another way to win if your creatures can't stick.
I came to this event to fight 3-color good stuff (shardless/deathblade/etc.), tempo, aggro, and other mid-range. Through play testing I found that this list is favored against these strategies.
Final thoughts:
Simic Sky Swallower should be cut but I won't because it's too funny. I'll probably replace it with a Theros god card.
Primeval Titan + Creeping Tar Pit / Volrath's Stronghold = nuts
Notion Thief is awesome. I might cut one from the side for Thoughtseize or Envelop.
Carpet of Flowers should probably be in the sideboard. Veteran Explorer triggers are bad against Omniclash/Sneak Show and Miracles. If Nic Fit isn't ramping then it's not doing anything.
Welcome and thanks for contributing!
I've been experimenting with Pod quite a lot recently so I know your struggle. On the one hand Pod is basically unbeatable once it gets going, on the other hand it restricts the deck severely. GSZ has been going in and out for me too, the mana curve is tough to balance and finding the right ratio of spells to creatures isn't easy either. And you always walk the line of win-more. Building a dedicated Pod list is certainly challenging. I think you did a quite good job, I like your list, like you said it needs some tweaking. More tomorrow.
How do you feel about the viability of rector with these creatures enchantments of Theros?
EDIT: now that i have a little more time to dedicate to the post, let me make a decent one.
Hey guys, there has been a long time that i don't post, but i'm always reading the thread. Grats on the great work for this wonderful and fun to play deck that made me enjoy the legacy format. The above question is because white would be my favorite splash, but since rector was falling to a lower tier of the archetype, i went to Honey T's punishing build and been having tons of fun with it (great job). Could it be that Rector makes a return with Theros? And, Arianrhod, could you see it back on your thunian build (BTW gratz on the awesome build)? I would love to see a thunian and rector together. I know it still lacks lacks THE creature enchantment of the right color, but sure looks promising, doesn't it?
PS: I'd like to try a beginners shot on the scapeshiftless BW build brought by Qweerios. Abstractly, i think that is a brilliant approach. But I agree with everybody that said that would consider the punishing fire package. By my miserable experience (Legacy is not that popular in my city, and i just get to play against an incomplete Pox and StoneBlade, a Green 12 Post, an Affinity and some modern decks) with the PF build, what i always most miss is the versatility main board to maybe snatch some G1s from poor matchups, and feel like burning wish can just do that and, by that, increasing greatly the possibilities of victory against those decks. And you still have access to red awesome sideboard spells, like Qweerios stated. But i know how devastating the PF package can be and the value it brings against some matchups, so i wouldn't go without it. On the other hand, i admit the it would require to cut some of the MB discard, so it would be weaker against combo, and i guess that's not what Qweerios want.
So from the most recent list that Honey T posted, i would go -2 maelstrom pulse and - 1 punishing fire for + 4 burning wishes and 61 cards (which i think it wouldn't be a problem due the versatility of both BW and GSZ). I would love to find room for volrath's stronghold and a savannah for Tegg, as well as to a 1-off Thoughtseize MB, but i can't see how. As for the non wish sideboard, assuming 7 cards as the way to go, it could have 2-3 carpets/REB, 2-3 surgicals and 0-2 thoughseizes (bisides one to the wish) and 0-2 slaughter games, or something like that.
Of course, since i'm kind of a noob on the deck, i might just have said a lot of dumb stuff. So please tell me what you think so i can be closer to the mastery of the piloting and thinking of the deck and the legacy format. Thank you all in advance and for the great work you are doing, and forgive me if i have given wrong credit or have missed someone.
Last edited by Nithkar; 08-28-2013 at 12:44 AM.
I tested Wish Fit today at a local tournament (around 15 players), and tied for first place. Here's a short report:
2-1 vs. Reanimator (double Deathrite did a lot of work)
SB: -4 Decay, -3 Deed, +2 REB, +2 Pyro, +2 Surgical, +1 TS
2-0 vs. Shardless BUGw (Wished for Innocent Blood)
SB: -3 TS, -1 Explorer, +2 REB, +2 Pyro
1-2 vs. UWr Miracles (Wished for Slaughter Games on Jace, Reverent Silence on CB/RiP, and Tsunami) - very close games overall, could have won if I found a Wish for Pulse/Deed/Thragtusk.
SB: -4 Explorer, -4 Therapy, +2 REB, +2 Pyro, +2 Surgical, +1 TS, +1 Teeg
2-0 vs. Zombardment (Wished for Massacre and Pyroclasm in G1, and Reverent Silence on Humility in G2)
-3 TS, +2 Surgical, +1 Innocent Blood
The deck ran very smoothly all night. It is also very convenient how the entire Burning Wish package was relevant. The only change I made to the original list was to replace Huntmaster with Thrun. Teeg is still in the sideboard and I do have 1 Savannah mainboard. The card I am most likely to cut for MD Teeg is the 4th Explorer. 2 Explorer is all you will ever need or be able to get value from during a game and drawing multiples can be really detrimental. Going down to 3 seems reasonable, but at the same time, it is an Explorer.dec...
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
Oh god, it seems crazy to do so.
Hi,
I am new to this Forum. But I read regularly, especially in this Thread.
I would like to know, if all of those Wishtargets are necessary? Maybe you can go down to like 5-7 Wishtargets and get more cards to board in.
What do you think of the following Wishtargets as a core and then add some sideboard cards depending on the meta:
1x Haunting Echoe/somekind of finisher
1x Innocent Blood
1x Slaughter Games
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Thoughtseize
1x Pyroclasm
As a finisher maybe you can try Call the Skybreaker, although it produces tokens. Bad with deed and abrupt decays. Other cards not mentioned so far could be Green Sun's Zenith(good with the maindeck creatures) and Diabolic Revelation.
What do you guys think?
Thanks, Dennis
If you have questions about the Burning Wish list Qweerios is your man. I was also just giving random ideas. I have not much experience with BW in Nic Fit.
I was experimenting quite a lot with White Pod list recently. In the end I couldn't find a good enough list despite trying but if you like brewing there is definitely some potential, both in blue and in white. Rector for Deed and Primeval Bounty or Conclave's Blessing, and saccing Reveillark to Pod is pretty nuts. Sin Collector, Pridemage, Teeg and Orzhov Pontiff are good White SB cards. Murderous Redcap, Entomber Exarch, Stoneforge Mystic and Sea Gate Oracle are also cards worth looking into. Cutting GSZ in Pod lists is certainly a viable option to free slots. I am not saying that Pod isn't viable, it has a lot of power. I just couldn't get it to work (yet) but I wouldn't be surprised if someone showed up with a sick Pod list.
For the question if Bestow (Enchantment keyword from Theros) might make Rector viable again, that might be possible. The Archon isn't powerful enough but a similar card could be. You just have be dead sure to be able to kill Deathrite Shamans if you plan to play with more than one Rector, for example 4 Decay and 3 Deed should be the minimum. I'm really curious if Theros brings us some good stuff, powerful Legends and GSZ go well together. I'd love something good to get on 2 or 3 Mana.
Punishing Fire lists just gave me better win rates with their straightforward game plan compared to my Pod attempts. This is my current Fire list. It is well tested and I am happy with it, MD and SB. It plays enough disruption to win first games against all types of matchups and thanks to Fire-Grove and Thrun-Run has still enough gas. Liliana is sick in Fire lists. Good synergy with Fire, fixes the Tombstalker problem and is awesome against Combo and Control.
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Swamp
2 Forest
2 Bayou
1 Badlands
1 Taiga
1 Mountain
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
4 Punishing Fire
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Golgari Charm
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 1 Huntmaster of the Fells
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 Grave Titan
Last edited by Tao; 08-29-2013 at 01:24 AM.
It seems Caleb had posted a BUG pod list we may be interested in.
http://tinyurl.com/pz4ndlx
What I like about his list is:
- 4 Strix
- less than 4 GSZ
- 3 DR Shaman (you want them in Pod lists)
What I don't like:
- the high amount of mediocre, underpowered 1-offs: Varolz, Finks, Redcap, Deceiver Exarch, Glen Elendra Archmage, Phantasmal Image, Shadowborn Demon, Shriekmaw, Dryad Arbor, Scavenging Ooze. They can be solid value creatures but there are just too many of them.
- I don't care who tells me why Brainstorm is bad in this deck. If you don't play Brainstorm in your blue Control deck with dozens of Shuffle effects and silver bullets, a need to find sac outlets for Explorer and to shuffle away your bad 1-offs and a need to find Pod you are doing something wrong, period.
- the way he approaches the Combo matchup. If you are telling yourself that Mindbreak Trap and Arcane Lab are good against Show and Tell decks you are lying to yourself.
This is freakishly similar to the list I've been working on the past several days. I was going to post it yesterday for discussion but something came up. It's only like 6 cards difference from Caleb's.
About Caleb's deck:
He states that you want a critical mass of creatures, and he includes 24 (including dryad arbor...which seems terrible as one of your land slots -- and he's running 21 lands the way it is). This is also his justification for not playing brainstorm. However I've found that the card is just so powerful in Pod decks, letting you put away and shuffle your bricks, put away creatures you want to pod into, or finding your non-creature spells like Deed. Caleb doesn't include Deed at all in his list, and while you don't necessarily want to be deeding away your Deathrite Shamans, I have found the card to be so powerful that I don't think I want to play without it, especially since you very rarely blow it for more than 3, you never hit your own Pod or the creatures with which you're going to win the game. Also, brainstorm is crucial in helping you find your hate cards in games 2 and 3. You'll notice that my Pod list has 21 creatures (which i think is a critical mass...) and has made room for 4 brainstorms and 2 Jaces. It's just a matter of what you want to do with those extra slots.
All of this being said, I definitely want to try adding Deathrites. I will also say that there are times when you really wish you had a Deceiver Exarch to go from 2 to 4, particularly in situations where you need to get Glen Elendra online.
This. I like some of the silver bullets, but your deck doesn't need to be only silver bullet one ofs.
Brainstorm seems very powerful in a deck where a lot of the time you arent even casting the creature as much as you are podding into it or green sunning it in.
MBT is an awful awful card. Arcane lab is a little bit better, but MBT is BAD. Just play more Blue spells and play force in the board
I think that if I was going to go all-in on Pod like Caleb did, I would run maybe 1 Green Sun as a "5th" pod. Either way, you should only need 5 creature search options....maybe a Diabolic Intent if you can make room for it. But like 3 Zenith/2 Pod, 2/3, 4/1, or 1/4 should be your configuration, IMO.
Ordinarily I dislike Brainstorm in blue Nic Fit decks, but for a Pod based list, I agree that it's pretty important.
I read his article as him specifically trying to avoid lumping the deck in as another Nic Fit variant (even though it obviously is), which is one reason he chose not to run Deed. He said something to that effect about how "Nic Fit runs Deed, but we don't."
I've come to hate Grave Titan. Most of the time it just isn't good enough. I'd rather see that be a Consecrated Sphinx or a Frost Titan. Glen Elendra is a reason to run blue, and I could see an extra copy or two in the sideboard. Card is nuts.
I was shocked when Caleb said that Thragtusk has been underperforming for him. Just absolutely stunned. Thrag is consistently one of the best cards in my deck, regardless of which version I'm playing.
Yes, a lot of his decisions appear to be from theorycrafting rather than actual playtesting.
I think it is because he does not run deed or decay. So that 2 drop creature everyone plays is always going to have much greater game impact than a thragtusk since by the time thrag comes out goyf will probably be a 5/6 at least.
I like the idea of pod decks. They look fun. But I think this is probably true. Pod decks look really good on paper, but in reality they force you to play a bunch of terrible cards with no spots open for enough removal, tutors (GSZ, wishes, etc) or cheap filter cards (top/BS). If you ever manage to survive to point in the game were you are going threw a pod chain, you probably already won and you could have just played Jace (a card that doesnt force you to run terrible cards) and won with his card advantage or -12.
I think we agree that the list is not the way to do it. Not being able to kill things like Revoker, Mindcensor or Jitte is a pretty big deal, it lacks a game plan against Show and Tell decks and it also can't ever beat Elves. Nothing against Caleb, but this article was a bit rushed I think.
For blue decks I have come to like Envelop more than FoW. FoW has been too incosistent because you don't always have the blue card and on top of it it often leaves you with very little after you pitched your good blue card for it and then the opponent can just draw himself out of it.
Envelop counters most things you want to FoW, too - Infernal Tutor and Burning Wish against TES, Natural Order and Glimpse against Elves and Show and Tell against Omnitell and SnT. I have not tested it against Shardless yet but it might be worth boarding it to counter Hymns and Visions.
Not hitting Ad Nauseum seems poor. I mean it might be that Envelop is good enough against everything else that it's okay to still lose to AdN, but I dunno. Why not just Negate? Seemed like Negate was doing everything we needed it to for the blue versions.
/barn or whatever re: Negate.
It counters everything relevant without needing another blue card. Counters enchantments too a la Dream Halls and Sneak Attack. It's just better than Envelop for what it's needed for.
My sig list has a 3/2 split between Envelop and Negate at the moment. Envelop can counter on your first turn and also the difference between keeping open one mana and two mana feels very important so you can spend more mana during your turn for discard and threats.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
