[Primer] Elves!

[nudon]

yeah, there was another one about 2 weeks ago as well. I wasn't able to make it yesterday due to work, though. Out of curiosity, what is your LGS? I'm down in Tustin, and the MTGdeals events are pretty much the only tournaments available to me.

I wasn't able to go to the one 2 weeks ago due to family errands. My LGS is actually MTGDeals but I am unable to go often due to work and other things.

[Lemnear]

Can't get over it: some of us face mana-issues with 18 lands and you tell me there's a player that goes 6-1 with 8 Basics + 3 ESG's + 1 Arbor

That's 2 less IMS (sans Arbor and Cradle) compared to 18-lands, with 3 IMS being one-shots. Considering mulligans and removal against ESG -> Llanowar openings, I suspect a few sleight of hands to make up for that.

[th3 w1z4rd]

Won a small 4 round event with the little green guys today. I had won with Elves three weeks previously, then had two awful tournaments with ANT and MUD, so I switched back to my favorite combo deck for today.

4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Birchlore Rangers
3 Quirion Ranger
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Regal Force
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Joraga Warcaller
1 Priest of Titania
1 Llanowar Elves

4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order
3 Crop Rotation

2 Bayou
1 Savannah
3 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaea's Cradle
8 Fetches

SB

2 Surgical Extraction
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
1 Ruric Thar
1 Priest of Titania
1 Emrakul
2 Scavenging Ooze



Round 1 vs. Eric with Deathblade

Game 1 Eric plays a Thoughtseize, a Stoneforge Mystic getting Batterskull, and cheats in the skull. That's about all he did this game. I play some guys, do a bunch of tricks with Wirewood Symbiote, Elvish Visionary, and friends, and NO into Hoof for the win. No contest.

Out 1 Priest of Titania, 1 Elvish Visionary, 1 Something Else, In 3 Abrupt Decay. For some reason I did not bring in the 4th NO and Prog.

Game 2 I play conservatively to not get blown out by Perish or Engineered Plague. The TO was being incredibly pissy all day because he wanted the rounds to go fast so he could leave. Normally he's a chill guy but today he was a complete jerk. He gave me shit about forgetting to attack for a couple extra points of damage during this game, not that it mattered. Even had I wanted to take notes it would have been a huge pain because the TO would have gone ballistic if I was taking even more time writing notes. Eric played a Sword of Feast and Famine and I decayed it EOT. Other than that he got out a DRS, Stoneforge Mystic, and Batterskull. At one point I tried to play Regal Force but a well-timed Wasteland on my Dryad Arbor left me with only 6 mana so I was forced to pass the turn like a chump as my hand was Regal Force, Craterhoof Behemoth. I won next turn through Eric's Mystic, DRS, and Batterskull. Well I would have but time was called and Eric conceded. The TO once again was a jackass and tried to record it as a 1-1 draw somehow, but when pairings were up my second round opponent thought a mistake was made and his hunch was right so everyone got re-paired.

1-0 2-0

Round 2 vs. Scott with Twelvepost

I love playing against this guy because I am always using a deck with a good matchup against him. However, Game 1 as I NO into Hoof for lethal, he responds by spinning his Sensei's Divining Top to get a Crop Rotation, plays it using a DRS (wtf?) and gets Glacial Chasm. In the following turns while I durdle unable to damage him, he plays Thespian Stage copying Chasm and plays Venser bouncing Chasm to his hand. I concede to this bullshit and we're on to Game 2. This was the only time I ever lost to Scott playing Elves. Fortunately, this is exactly the kind of thing I stuck Emrakul in the board for.

Out 1 Viridian Shaman, 1 Elvish Visionary In 1 Emrakul, 1 Priest of Titania

Game 2 I mulligan to 5 and I and worried at this point because I might actually lose a very easy matchup. Luckily my 5 is excellent. I play some guys and NO into Hoof while Scott has no mana open.

Game 3 I play double Glimpse on turn 2 off Cradle. The first gets Flusterstormed but the second resolves and I draw some cards and play some dudes. Next turn I play a Joraga Warcaller kicked a few times and swing for lethal.

2-0 4-1

Round 3 vs. Ryan with Punishing Jund

Game 1 is absolutely ridiculous. Ryan sets up the Punishing Grove combo turn 2 and starts burning my elves. Luckily he only has Grove for red mana for a little while. He hits me with a couple Hymn to Tourachs and eventually kills all my guys between Fires, Bolt, Decay, and a Maelstrom Pulse. However, he has no threats for a long time. Eventually he plays a DRS and a Goyf. I topdeck Glimpses and lands for a million turns until I have no fetchable lands left in my deck. I finally draw a creature and go off with double Glimpse. I draw a lot of cards and win. I count my graveyard after the battle. Final death tally: twelve (!) elves, a Symbiote, and Dryad Arbor. Damn! Elves sure can recover awesomely.

Out 1 Viridian Shaman, 1 Priest of Titania In 2 Scavenging Ooze

Game 2 Ryan mulls to 5 and his only land for a couple turns is a Bayou. He hits me with an Inquisition of Kozilek and later a Hymn to Tourach but it doesn't matter because I go off with Glimpse to refill my hand and fill the board and I NO next turn for the win.

After I finished this round (Game 1 took a million years) others are still playing because there's a person playing Hide Tide and he is not very familiar with it. The TO complains a lot about shit taking too long, blah blah blah. We tell him to chill out but he won't. He threatens to make the turn time limit one minute when active player is called. One other guy besides me, Mike, is undefeated so we know we're going to play. I jokingly ask him if he wants to go get some drinks when the High Tide player begins his combo turn. He goes "Drinks? Really? What kind of drinks?" We actually considered it for a second but it was too early in the evening.

Round 4 vs. Mike with RUG Delver

These games aren't even close. Game 1 he Gitaxian Probes me turn 1 and I'm like shit it's combo but then he fetches a Volcanic Island and plays a Delver. He cantrips a couple times, Delver refuses to flip for him, and he Stifles a DRS activation (lol). I play some guys and wait. Mike soon plays out his whole hand of threats, I believe double Goyf and a Mongoose after bolting a Symbiote and Forked Bolting a Visionary. Seeing only one card in his hand, I play Natural Order, hoping that one card isn't Daze. It isn't.

Out 1 Viridian Shaman, 1 Priest of Titania In 2 Scavenging Ooze

Game 2 Mike has a really slow clock with only a single Nimble Mongoose. I play some guys and he kills a couple with burn and cantrips a couple times into another Mongoose. I make a bunch of mana and play Scavenging Ooze when Mike has two cards in hand since I have some creatures in the grave and Mike has exactly threshold. The cards turn out to be Force of Will and Delver. I make more mana and hardcast Hoof for the win.

When places are announced, the TO once again annoys me by saying "And Tom got first. I don't know how that happened but whatever." I was like "By only losing a single game all day, that's how." Jerk.

Props:
Drawing my one-of Gaea's Cradle almost every game, and having a Crop Rotation the couple times I didn't
Natural Order of course
My opponents being good guys and making the games fun
Comboing out and winning against Jund after he killed 14 of my creatures

Slops:
The TO for being a douchebag
High Tide for taking forever as always

Thanks for reading!

[Koby]

Can't get over it: some of us face mana-issues with 18 lands and you tell me there's a player that goes 6-1 with 8 Basics + 3 ESG's + 1 Arbor

That's 2 less IMS (sans Arbor and Cradle) compared to 18-lands, with 3 IMS being one-shots. Considering mulligans and removal against ESG -> Llanowar openings, I suspect a few sleight of hands to make up for that.

You only need one land. Mulligans to five can still win games. Also winning games without casting a spell are en vogue these days.

[Lemnear]

Jep, 8 lands for T1 plays are the real deal /sarcasm

[Dice_Box]

Elves finished 5th: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=58806
Thats a fairly traditional build. Something I would have expected more of at the start of the year.

Edit:
Here is the "11 land" build. Finished 33rd. http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=58818

[Lemnear]

4 Priest, 4 Archdruid, 4 DRS, 1, Llanowar, 4 Fetches ... come on ... I can't even imagine him generating 2 mana on a constant Basis to cast any of his mana-Lords.

[Koby]

4 Priest, 4 Archdruid, 4 DRS, 1, Llanowar, 4 Fetches ... come on ... I can't even imagine him generating 2 mana on a constant Basis to cast any of his mana-Lords.

The best part was only playing 3 Wirewood Symbiote. Don't you wish you had an opportunity to play in SCG Opens like this? Even a terrible list can cash!

[Dice_Box]

I wish I could. We have one, just one, GP a year here. No SCG, no IQ. Nothing. Then I watch games like that and scream. I am jelly because I want to play more. Maybe I should move...

[lordofthepit]

Round 5 - No show (2-0) :\

Are you talking about the Natural Order Show and Tell of two years ago, or did your opponent just flat out not show up?

[Lemnear]

The best part was only playing 3 Wirewood Symbiote. Don't you wish you had an opportunity to play in SCG Opens like this? Even a terrible list can cash!

I wish i could attend bigger tournaments. I can't even make it to Bazaar of Moxen this year :/

[Dice_Box]

How do people feel about using this as a cheap Cradle? I mean once know some of you run under 4 for cost reasons, do you see yourselves running this?

[Zombie]

If it's the devotion land, then no. Too clunky. Has an activation cost and doesn't even produce green. It would be fine if the deck had less one drops, but it has a crapton of one drops.

[Dice_Box]

While that is true I would not be as quick as to say no. It makes green and has an ability that reads "Add {G} to your mana pool equal to the number of creatures you control -2". I mean it's a dead opening draw, but we mostly go off turn 3 and have a large amount of creatures in play at this time. Even on a slow run it would tap for 3 on turn 3.

Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.

[Mr. Froggy]

Elves finished 5th: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=58806
Thats a fairly traditional build. Something I would have expected more of at the start of the year.

Edit:
Here is the "11 land" build. Finished 33rd. http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=58818

Budget deck is budget.

[Lemnear]

There you have it: it's a Cradle which produces less mana and needs mana to activate it. In a shitload of scenarios between having Symbiote, Visionary, Quirion and Nettle this thing creates 0 mana because you lack the initial mana. It's worse than a forest

Budget deck is budget.

Budget is one thing. Likely having to manipulate your draws to make archdruid playable off that manabase is another. I ran a simulation today for starting Grips which turn Priest/Archdruid live ... devastating. I can't explain the result.

[nudon]

While that is true I would not be as quick as to say no. It makes green and has an ability that reads "Add {G} to your mana pool equal to the number of creatures you control -2". I mean it's a dead opening draw, but we mostly go off turn 3 and have a large amount of creatures in play at this time. Even on a slow run it would tap for 3 on turn 3.

Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.

Crop rotation.

You wanted some tourney reports to help you with certain match-ups. There's been several in the last few pages, including mine, if you're still interested.

[Dice_Box]

I am, I am going to sit down and take notes on each one this week. The reason I have not commented on them at all is because I am mostly on via my mobile and have limited time to read. Granted I did spend last night watching the stream so...

I did some play testing last week with a friend, this coming week we have two more friends coming to test with us so I want to test. I will read up before that point.

The cards I am most interested in testing are library and choke. If the deck did not main 8 or 9 fetches I would run Root maze. I am paying some real thought to seeing what happens against my playgroup if I cut back to mono green and ditch the fetches for it. Likely not a great plan but I will have fun testing it all the same.

About the new land. Not going to run it myself, was just putting my thoughts out there. I think in budget builds it could find a place, but I will drop the topic because this is not the place for it.

Lastly, thinking about what I have seen happen on SCG of late. Mostly the decks that are pushing cantrips to abuse Young Pyromancer. I am giving some serious thought to putting a Hoof side and Thar main. The defence against Delver is just icing. Still undecided though and the meta hear in Australia is likely to be different. Mostly because things don't change as fast here due to not having large events to push a strong need to adapt.

Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.

[PendelSteven]

Crop rotation.

Don't get me wrong: I love the once-banned-in-Legacy (!) Crop Rotation. Actually, I don't get why most people play 4 Cradle. I won't say that I don't want another Cradle, but I never, I repeat, never want a 4th Cradle in my deck. I know CR can get countered on the downside, but you can play CR after you've played a land this turn, which is the upside apart from that it's wasteland-protection and in a pinch can even help against Spreading Seas (although you have Quirion Ranger for that problem).

But... Cradle is not strictly better than the Nyx-land. By the way, since we now have a semi-reprint of Glimpse and a semi-reprint of Cradle, we just need a new Symbiote and Quirion and we can basicly play this, or a Simic variant of this deck in Modern.

The Nyx-land is actually not tapping for NumberOfCreatures-2, it's tapping for GinCastingCost-2.

Multani's Acolyte therefore actually makes it tap break-even. An Elvish Archdruid provides the same advantage.

Maybe suboptimal Elves with multiple G in their cost include:

Elvish Archdruid (Priest-variant)
Multani's Acolyte (Visionary-variant)

(the banned Rofellos)
Glissa, The Traitor (actually playable now with most Elves deck running DRS, Birchlore Rangers and Bayou)
Norwood Priestess (not even always strictly better than Natural Order for 2GG)

Elvish Champion

Deranged Hermit (actually not quite bad with Craterhoof in your deck)

Mul Daya Channelers

Gilt Leaf-Archdruid (alternate win-con: I'll steal all your lands. Thank you)
Wilt Leaf-Liege (already a sideboard-card in Death & Texas, mind you)

(Ambush Commander)

Eledamri, Lord Of Leaves
Viridian Corrupter (alternate Viridian Shaman)

(Thelon of Havenwood)
Lys Alan Huntmaster (again: not bad with Craterhoof in your deck)
(Allosaurus Rider)
Nissa's Chosen (excellent sacrifce target by the way)
Jagged-Scar Archer (can potentially tap to destroy an Iona)
Glissa Sunseeker
Jarad (can actually sacrifice a Craterhoofd to "deal" the last 5 damage)

Voice Of Woods (old-skool wincon ftw!)

(Ezuri's Bri... not in this deck, thank you)

Viridian Zealot
Yeva
Ezuri (an actual wincon btw)

(Masked admirers - cute with Cabal Therapy though)

and Elvish Soultiller



And... Can Joraga Warcaller and Treespeaker cost more than G with Multikicker?



While this looks like a list of Elves that didn't make it to the team, if you focus on the Cradle 2.0 it might actually be as good as the current build. Keep your eyes open, people!

[PendelSteven]

I wish i could attend bigger tournaments. I can't even make it to Bazaar of Moxen this year :/

Define "bigger". I remember the Legacy side-event on sunday in Utrecht was more than 100 players. So I'd advise you to go to GP Antwerp and hope you've been to GP Prague.

But if you mean money-wise, yeah, I know what you mean.