[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

[bjholmes3]

Against Thalia, you can't even use this card's effect until turn 5, unless you're willing to blow some acceleration on it. How's that for effective?

[ivanpei]

Is the volcanic absolutely necessary?

I'm playing this:
4 Delta
3 Tarn
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Sea
4 Gemstone Mine

I prefer more rainbows because after board the green splash is important. I like having 12 green sources postboard. Red is for past in Flame. And I think 4 Led 4 Petal and 4 Gemstone is enough.

If you are that late in the game where you can go for Past in Flames win, you will definitely have drawn one of your 12 rainbow sources. I feel the md volcanic is a waste and could be better as a rainbow.

[bjholmes3]

The primary benefit for the Volcanic over more rainbows is that it is searchable by any of your fetches, and more resistant to Wasteland, among other things. The same logic applies to a boarded in Tropical Island.

[ivanpei]

I don't see how volcanic helps against wasteland. Anyway my logic is, I'd rather have more green than the red sources because red is only needed during the combo turn and can be produced of led and Petal. Green is absolute critical in the first few turns postboard to cast abrupt decay and xantid swarm. Cracking petals for swarms/decay is suboptimal while using petals or led for the red during the combo turn is totally fine.

[bjholmes3]

I repeat, the duals see more use than rainbows because of the fetches. That's what makes them more Wasteland resistant, and that's what makes it viable to run singletons (of the duals, as opposed to multiple rainbows). Rainbow lands are not as viably tutorble, and are thus not as readily available. You say you want 12 green sources postboard, how about 16? That's how many you can have with a single Dual and 7 fetches.

All I'm saying is, I believe you would be more satisfied with your mana base if you ran 3 rainbows and 1 Volcanic (SB -1 rainbow +1 Tropical) than if you ran the 4 Rainbows.

[ivanpei]

I am still running tropical in the board.

I'm saying that I don't need red except on the combo turn so I don't need the volcanic. The 4th rainbow gives me an extra green source after board:

-1 island + 1 trop
4 rainbow, 7 fetches, 1 Island, 1 Swamp, 1 Sea, 1 trop

Basically I'm just saying that I want as much green as possible post board. And even though you keep a volcanic in the deck . Have never tutored for it with fetches because it simply isn't needed until the combo turn. I will always have either a sandbagged rainbow or led/Petal for red.

Since I have never fetched the volcanic, why not just run a rainbow over it so I have easier green postboard? Easy green is more critical than easy red imo. In my list, I don't run empty the Warrens or wishes so past in Flames is literally the only red card. I run 7 green cards in the board and they need to be cast prior to the combo turn which makes green much more important than red.

Anyway it's not critical since its just a minor tweak to the manabase.

[Bed Decks Palyer]

Against Thalia, you can't even use this card's effect until turn 5, unless you're willing to blow some acceleration on it. How's that for effective?

It removes all the hatebears. Yes, Infest/Massacre/Virtue's Ruin does the same, but it can't be played preemptively and does not kill equipped dudes/Teeg/Ooze. also, it may remove Trinisphere, while Infest/Massacre/Virtue's Ruin can't.
Just saying. Not that I think it's the best answer to everything, just that it's pretty versatile.

[bjholmes3]

In a hateful matchup, I'm a big believer in Slaughter Pact. The only times I hear of people losing from its drawback are from missed triggers and from times when they had to use it where they would've lost either way. The latter has been primarily my experience, once I started using the thing properly. It has proven to be incredibly useful to me, and it is theoretically one of the best single creature removal options available to our deck.

[lordofthepit]

How many of you guys have tried ANT with Lim-Dul's Vault, as Carsten wrote about recently? It seems like a potentially powerful addition, but one that changes your lines of play (and would be one of the more skill-testing cards in the deck)?

[Lemnear]

How many of you guys have tried ANT with Lim-Dul's Vault, as Carsten wrote about recently? It seems like a potentially powerful addition, but one that changes your lines of play (and would be one of the more skill-testing cards in the deck)?

Dunno, how proactive sorcery discard plays with the eot-nature of LDV. Will watch Carsten today in Berlin

[Kid]

Hey there!

Got a question about a situation :

Is there any play to avoid a fizzle when someone is hitting your LED before cracking it (with a Tear/Wear or an Abrupt Decy for instance) ?
Is my question clear? Because in any case when you put your LED he can just AD it and you can't play your tutor coz it's sorcery speed...

Thx for the answers!

Kid

[Holly]

After LED resolves you have priority, so before he can destroy it with anything (even with Krosan Grip) you can cast your tutor, hold priority and sac the LED.
So it does only work with 1 LED since the time you play the second, your first one can get destroyed in response.

[Tombstalker]

Nope unless you have another avenue like PiF in hand/yard for the mana, or LDV + brainstorm for sheer desperation. I'm assuming your facing jund or similar where you are playing out your IMS to avoid discard? It's kinda as damned if you do damned if you don't. Playing them out is usually the safer bet though IME since they have more discard then artie removal.

Edit- I may have misunderstood the situation. If your playing as your going off holly has it right. I thought you were playing them in advance to dodge discard.

[bjholmes3]

Holly is correct. To clarify, the play looks like this:

1.) Stack is empty, turn player (aka you) has priority
2.) You play Lion's Eye Diamond. It is put on the stack.
3.) You have the opportunity to play Instants or activate abilities. When you're done, you pass priority.
4.) The above, for your opponent. AD only affects permanents, so he obviously can't play it while LED is on the stack.
5.) LED resolves and enters the battlefield, and the turn player (aka you) gets priority.
6.) You cast Infernal Tutor. It is put on the stack.
7.) You have the opportunity to play Instants or activate abilities. You activate LED. When you're done, you pass priority.
8.) Your opponent may now play Instants or activate abilities. If he has countermagic, he could use it here. AD has no effect.

[Kid]

Thanks you guys for the answers! Mystery solved for me!

Really appreciate it! :)

Thanks again!

[BrettF]

In a hateful matchup, I'm a big believer in Slaughter Pact.

Have you tried/compared Disfigure?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Against Thalia, for example, Disfigure is a Terror. Pact is a Sensei's Top. Pact, any day.

-ABC

[Tombstalker]

Cabal pit is pact that kills thalia under moms watch.

[bjholmes3]

Not quite. Pit essentially costs BB to cast, one for the cost and one for the land itself, so under Thalia, it's pretty much Disfigure through Mom. And let's not forget Threshold. Our deck has an easier time getting to it, but it's honestly not always there.

The main minus for Pit is that you can't go using it willy-nilly like you can with other creature-removal options. Karakas is permanent, unparentable removal, and Slaughter Pact is free, on combo turn, and slightly expensive otherwise. Other options have been discussed, like Massacre, Disfigure, and all the other goodies, which are all cheap or free, and you don't need threshold and an open land drop to play them.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Cabal Pit won't help your storm count, and it will make your mana base (in all probability) worse.

-ABC

EDIT::: I think Massacre is crap. It is stopped dead in its tracks by Teeg. Not the most threatening of Hate-Bears, but when it needs to be gone, Massacre is a massive let-down that is totally dead.