[Deck] Aluren

[Whippoorwill]

How was Deathrite for you through the night? Mainly did you think it was worth the inclusion or would you have rather had other cards in those spots?

[Admiral_Arzar]

How was Deathrite for you through the night? Mainly did you think it was worth the inclusion or would you have rather had other cards in those spots?

Deathrite is batshit fucking insane and deserves 4 slots. It accelerates mana, hates on the yard, provides a clock, and just does so many things. My only regret so far is only playing 3 lol.

Anyways, as promised I have a short report from last night. I top 4'd the tournament with a record of 2-1-1. I beat Dark Maverick and U/R Tempo, lost to Canadian Threshold, and drew with Grixis Tempo. This is the list I played:

3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
2 Coiling Oracle
2 Dream Stalker
1 Cavern Harpy
4 Imperial Recruiter
3 Shardless Agent
1 Eternal Witness
1 Parasitic Strix

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
2 Intuition
4 Aluren
4 Force of Will

4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Volcanic Island
2 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Island

Sideboard

2 Surgical Extraction
2 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Bone Shredder
1 Viridian Shaman
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed

The Maverick matchup is quite favored for us. Their clock is slow and their combo hate is more of a speed-bump for us (whereas stack-based combo like Storm or High Tide folds to Thalia, we just get delayed a turn). The version I played against had discard post-board, and wrecked my hand game two. However, my opponent was unable to back this up with a clock, and so I played a bunch of derpy dudes and won by beatdown (!). I killed a Teeg and a Canonist as well, although it ended up not mattering because beatz. Sideboard was -4 Force of Will, -2 Coiling Oracle, +2 Abrupt Decay, +3 Pernicious Deed, +1 Viridian Shaman.

Against U/R Delver I had a very close game one, comboing off at three life while the opponent had active Grim Lavamancer. Cabal Therapy bombardment removed all of his meaningful interaction although I almost died to Delver beatdown. Game two I swept a bunch of dudes with Pernicious Deed and took over the game with more dudes, eventually winning when I ripped a combo piece off the top (so yeah, Dream Stalker is a pretty good blocker against tempo decks with small threats). Sideboard was -2 Coiling Oracle, -1 Force of Will, -2 Intuition, +2 Abrupt Decay, +3 Pernicious Deed (Intuition came out because, as a veteran High Tide player, I fear Surgical Extraction).

Canadian Threshold is a bad matchup. It has a faster clock than the other tempo decks and thus punishes you more for keeping loose hands, drawing poorly, etc. I narrowly took game one by comboing off, but mulliganned for lands in games two and three and got ran over. Sideboard was similar to U/R Delver except I removed another card instead of the FOW.

Grixis Tempo became a grind fest, because the deck is basically U/R Delver with discard. We both Therapied the heck out of each other during all these games, each of us grinding out a win. Our game three went long and we went to time - ending on turn five with neither of us having cards in hand or nonland permanents in play (!). Sideboard was similar to the other tempo matchups except I brought in 1 or 2 Flusterstorm (and cascaded into it like a n00b).

The first lesson I took from this tournament is that dropping to 21 lands was a mistake. I basically never mulled for lands with 22, I mulled for lands at least 4 times out of those 10 games with 21. Deathrite is insane and I am a bad player for only playing three, I will be adding another. Additionally, Shardless Agent is very, very good, and adding it made the deck perform better as well as feel much more powerful. Cascading into Cabal Therapy is insane. Tempo matchups are hard but winnable. Spell Pierce and Flusterstorm have limited utility against them because having that extra mana delays our combo even farther (it's already bad enough we have to pay for Daze). I realized that those cards are mostly there for combo, but I'm thinking of dropping them for discard, which has utility against both combo and tempo. Also, cascading into Flusterstorm is the worst feeling ever. I also want an additional Abrupt Decay or two in the board, this will help the tempo matchup as "Delver, go" is incredibly hard for this deck to come back from. I'm even considering playing a more specific hate card like Carpet of Flowers or Defense Grid for tempo matchups, as my meta is just infested with them right now. Some changes I'm pretty sure I will make before the next local (tomorrow) are:

Maindeck

-2 Coiling Oracle (worst card in the deck and got boarded out continually)
+1 Deathrite Shaman
+1 Polluted Delta/Tropical Island

Sideboard

-2 Surgical Extraction
-2 Spell Pierce
-2 Flusterstorm
-1 Scavenging Ooze

+2 Nihil Spellbomb/Tormod's Crypt
+4 Thoughtseize
+1 Abrupt Decay

We'll see how it goes, hopefully I won't get 75% tempo matchups again.

[swoop]

I love all the love you give to Aluren guys.

I'm really thinking hard about Commune with the Gods http://store.tcgplayer.com/Products....artner=AUTOANY

if you flip it with shardless it's good, better than strix, or oracle. (with aluren active).
it digs 4 deep and goes batshit.

there's a tourney coming up on 19th and I might be not working that say. So if I end up with a 12th weekend in row working (either sun, sat, or both) I might just go there.

[theBloody]

Commune can be good. Problem with cards like this is scenario where you cascade into oracle/strix and draw one (aluren active and you probably don't have mana to hard cast it). I'm going to test it in rec-less build.

[Whippoorwill]

Played against last night, but decided to take the deck in a completely different approach from the usual, partially in part to Admiral_Arzar's reports.

2 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Taiga
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Volrath's Stronghold

4 Baleful Strix
1 Dream Stalker
1 Cavern Harpy
4 Shardless Agent
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Parasitic Strix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Sedraxis Alchemist

4 Ancestral Vision
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Intuition
4 Force of Will

2 Pernicious Deed
4 Aluren

Sideboard:
3 Thoughtseize
2 Swan Song
1 Krosan Grip
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Golgari Charm
1 Plague Spitter
4 Leyline of the Void

After reading Admiral's insight on Coiling Oracle, I decided to drop them completely and go to the full 4 Strix. Getting the land in play isn't as important as having the hidden information from my opponent. Ancestral Vision is to increase the effectiveness of Shardless Agent, especially when trying to combo off. It's also nice to suspend when preparing to go off and helps refill your hand against discard strategies and the card loss from Force (also pitches to Force when needed). Deed and Pulse main are to add a more controlling line to the deck to give me time to set up the win.

The sideboard is still a work in progress. I originally had 3 Decays, but changed 1 to a Grip for the Split Second effect. Charm was for Maverick and such as was Plague Spitter. I went with 4 Leylines because I still don't really feel that Deathrite is fast enough against graveyard based decks like Dredge and Reanimator. Especially when Manaless is running Chancellor of the Annex.

We had 10 people this week, so 4 rounds.

Round 1 vs BJ with Jund Zombie Thing

Game 1: I get mana flooded and his deck does it's thing. He has Lotleth Trolls, Vengevines, Carrion Feeders & Gravecrawlers with Buried Alive.

Game 2: I get Aluren out and he has a Lotleth Troll and Goblin Bombardment. I start to combo and he plays the Gravecrawler from his graveyard. I didn't even notice that or I would have Decayed the Bombardment at the end of his turn before casting Aluren. Thankfully Dream Stalker saves the day by bouncing Aluren with his Gravecrawler on the stack. He Therapies me on his turn but can't remember the name of Cavern Harpy (and I wasn't going to tell him even though he knew everything else about the card), so he names Aluren instead. A few turns later I find another and combo out (possible in response to his Gravecrawler).

Game 3: He Thoughtseizes me on the play taking Shardless Agent (I had 4 lands, Agent, Witness, not the greatest keeper). I eventually Witness back the Shardless to build up my board and draw and play Aluren shortly afterwards and manage to get there due to him not drawing much of anything.

1-0 (2-1)

Round 2 vs Greg (phazonmutant) with Grixis Delver
I knew what he was playing from watching his game the previous round but he didn't know what I was on.

Game 1: He plays land-go and I suspend Vision on my turn. He plays a Delver on his turn 2 and I play a Strix. His Delver flips (I think) and he bolts my Strix and swings for 3. I cast Shardless shortly after and the cat is out of the bag as I reveal Aluren before hitting a Vision. I draw a bunch of lands from the Vision. He ends up Dismembering my Agent so stop my clock while he hits me with his Delver. My suspended Vision resolves and I hit more not-Alurens. They changing point in the game was when I had an Agent on board trying to race his Delver and we were both in top deck mode. I drew Sedraxis Alchemist and bounced his Delver then Therapied it away. From there I was able to win with my Grizzly Bears. Not how I expected to win, but I'll take it.

Game 2: He gets out an early Delver, but it doesn't flip for a few turns. I get a Plague Spitter and his (now) 2 Delvers flip the following turn before I can kill them off. So close. He hits me for 6 and on my turn everything takes 1. I swing back with my Spitter then sac it to Therapy successfully killing off the Aberrations and taking his Young Pyromancer (he didn't have any red mana yet). He draws a red source the following turn (That was close) and from there it was more durdle beatings. Only saw the 1 Aluren in 2 games despite the amount of Visions I resolved. Vision definitely kept me in these games longer than I should have been.

2-0 (4-1)

Round 3 vs David with Zoo
Neither of us knew what the other was playing going into the round.

Game 1: I don't draw much and he has a fast clock that overruns me. I don't think I got Aluren out this game.

Game 2: He keeps a risky hand with 1 land, Gaddock Teeg and some removal I think. He was going to GSZ on his t1, but he decided against it because he boarded out Arbor (he told me after). I Decay his Teeg then a couple turns later he GSZ's for a 2nd one. Thankfully I have removal for that one as well. Vision filled up my hand enough to find Aluren + combo pieces and I managed to pull out the win with him at 19 life and myself at 3.

Game 3: Still haven't seen a Wasteland in the previous games, but I started with a couple basics and fetched a dual at one point. He played a Wasteland shortly after, but by that point my lands were mostly set and I was able to fetch out the rest of the basics. He kept a strong hand against me again and I started with a Strix which got sent to the fields. He played a Nacatl which ended abruptly. From there I build up my hand til I found an Aluren and some combo pieces. I can't remember the exact line of play right now, but I remember casting Shardless Agent and him responding to it. At one point he killed one of my creatures with a Bolt (possibly recruiter with the trigger on the stack) and I ended up Cascading with Shardless into a Brainstorm which found my Witness to allow me to combo off. Really wish I had wrote down the line of play last night afterwards.

3-0 (6-2)

Round 4 vs Thomas with UWr Miracles
He asked if I wanted to play EDH instead and offered to conceed, but I told him we could just draw since I was the only undefeated.

ID

3-0-1 (6-2)

Overall I'm quite happy with the changes. Vision worked out as good as I hoped (even if it was only filtering out dead draws). Never really drew Deed/Pulse when I needed it, so I can't comment on the effectiveness, but I like having them there. I'll likely be cutting the Intuition for something else, not sure what yet. Plague Spitter was great and I plan on keeping it in the 75 since it works well against small creature decks like Elves, Maverick and such. I never drew Leyline in the 1 match I boarded them in, but it also wasn't important enough for me to mulligan further for. Swan Song I still like, but the spots are still open to changes. Same with Charm.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I made top eight at my local on Saturday, but got crushed by Jund and didn't make it any further. I have been unable to beat that deck, it just grinds me out on card advantage and my deck refuses to provide good draws against it. Anyways, I played this list:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
1 Cavern Harpy
2 Dream Stalker
4 Shardless Agent
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Eternal Witness
1 Parasitic Strix

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
2 Intuition
4 Aluren
4 Force of Will

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Volcanic Island
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp

Sideboard

1 Necrotite Spellbomb
1 Relic of Progenitus
4 Thoughtseize
1 Yixlid Jailer
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Bone Shredder
1 Viridian Shaman
3 Pernicious Deed

I lost round one to Infect Stompy. Game one I died to the unblockable dude after my desperation Aluren got Dazed. Game two I killed the first unblockable guy with Bone Shredder but died to the second before I could find another removal spell.

I won the next three rounds, beating Imperial Painter, Dredge, and a third deck I can't remember. The deck performed well overall until top eight, where I drew poorly against Jund (which I have become convinced is a bad matchup regardless). The combination of hand disruption, oodles of removal (which largely nullifies our "beat with derpy dudes" plan B), and massive card advantage is really bad for this deck (postboard Surgical Extraction didn't help either, it's hard to win without Recruiters). I almost want to make room for Leyline of Sanctity or something like Divert or Misdirection in the board. However, playing Ancestral Vision as postulated in Whippoorwill's post above this one might actually be a better solution. In that case, I would go -2 Intuition, -1 Dream Stalker, +4 Visions and just play 61 cards like a noob (or something to that effect). I may not play this deck again for a while though, because absent a solution to the Jund matchup my position is untenable (There are 3+ Jund-playing regulars at my LGS).

[DemolitionColorScheme]

I've been assembling Aluren for a while now since I haven't seen it really being played here in the Netherlands and I'm a big sucker for underdog decks.

Current decklist:

[20] Lands:
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Polluted Delta
2 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp

[16] Creatures:
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Coiling Oracle
3 Shardless Agent
3 Baleful Strix
2 Cavern Harpy (1 could be removed for 1 Eternal Witness main)
1 Dream Stalker
1 Parasitic Strix

[20] Instants / Sorceries:
4 Living Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
2 Intuition

[4] Enchantments:
4 Aluren

[15] Sideboard: (under construction)
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Cavern Harpy
1 Parasitic Strix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Sedraxis Alchemist (which I thank this thread for! Way better than Stern Proctor!)
1 Yixlid Jailer (not only useful for Storm, but for Goyf's as well! ;) )
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Peacekeeper
1 Selkie Hedge-Mage
1 Shardless Agent
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Abrupt Decay

-----------------------------------------------------

First, the maindeck. I haven't seen a lot of lists with Deathrite Shaman, besides in this thread recently (I just noticed), but I feel - in the current meta - that it definitely has its place. It provides us with an extra ramp and it is an awesome utility tool for taking away certain key cards in the graveyard, including responding to a opponent using his DS to swallow a fetch and just steal it so it fizzles or an opponent's Cabal Therapy, for instance. Same goes for its other abilities. It can be a real nuisance! It can also be a game-changer for long and grindy games. DS also gives us a nice 1-drop, which this deck was lacking in terms of creatures. It also gives a surprise factor, throwing people off to what you're actually playing. Sadly, it does not do anything combo wise, so Cascading into a Shaman isn't always neccesarily wanted, though it isn't bad either.

As you can see, I'm not running an Imperial Recruiter main, but simply Living Wish it via the sideboard. I proxied up 4 Recruiters and ran them main and honestly ... they felt like dead draws most of the time and in most cases required running a Taiga (when not having a DS out), which is just asking to be Wastelanded. Cascading into a Recruiter is also a huge bummer and you don't really want it in your hand. It's just asking to be discarded, really. Living Wish -> Recruiter -> Dream Stalker -> Imperial Recruiter -> Cavern Harpy -> Dream Stalker -> Recruiter -> Parasitic Strix is all you really need, honestly. I don't see the use for 4 Recruiters. If the Recruiter gets countered, we'll just go for Eternal Witness. If that fails, it doesn't mean the game is over, you can still combo with the other creatures via Cascading, Intuition or Lim-Dul's Vault. Having 3 DS's out is no slouch as well! Critter beatdown + DS is always an option!

Baleful Strix is also a huge improvement over Wall of Blossoms. Wall of Blossoms can't be combo'd with via Cavern Harpy, Baleful Strix however can be a combo-piece (albeit slow). It's also a huge threat, buying time. An opponent simply won't attack with his Goyf if there's a BS on the battlefield, which buys you a lot of time. If he does decide to attack, you've just gotten rid of a Goyf for 2 + a draw! Most of the time it's a good source for Abrupt Decay / Lightning Bolt, which means it has served its purpose perfectly! I think it's one of the most excellent draws you can get. You're never bummed out Cascading into one or drawing one, since it always pays for itself.

Coiling Oracle; not all of you are super thrilled with this guy, but I love him. He's another potential combo-piece (albeit a slow one as well) and it feels awesome playing it on turn two via DS or a land and then bumping into another land, means we're solid on 4 mana for the next turn. He synergises well with Cabal Therapy, Brainstorm and Lim-Dul's Vault!

Cavern Harp is not only a combo piece, but also a great chump blocker. Just throw it in front of a Goyf or a Delver of Secrets / Insectile Aberration; declare it as a blocker and before combat damage resolves, return it to your hand for 1 life and the combat damage fizzles. You've just bought another turn. It can be a great staller and it's actually a pretty good beater. ;)

Shardless Agent; what can I say ... I prefer it highly over running Recruiters main and it's also a decent beater for the longer grindy games. I would love to run into an Ancestral Vision, but I don't know if the deck can really support it. What would you swap out for it anyways?

Intuition is an awesome card, but I do feel it's the weakpoint of the deck; getting 3 Aluren's and 2 discarded is just asking for it to be extracted via Surgical Extraction, though playing it for 3 Cabal Therapy's is absolutely awesome and can be a huge game-changer. I see it as a back-up plan.

Lim-Dul's Vault is one of my personal favorites. The lists using it varies wildly, but it has saved my ass multiple times, especially when combo-ing with Shardless Agent and just hoping to run into it so you can find a Parasitic Strix (which you can pick up via Coiling Oracle or Baleful Strix) or running into a Living Wish or even early-game when finding Aluren or a Force of Will. It's a solid-cantrip-like-tutor which synergises well with Shardless Agent.

I thought about adding Sol lands (mainly Ancient Tomb), but I feel the deck can't really afford getting it on the draw, since so much is multi-colored.

The sideboard ... it's still very much under construction. Right now it focusses on Living Wish targets for sollutions or ramping (getting some ramping with an Ancient Tomb or possibly another Deathrite Shaman), but it leaves little room for actual sideboarding. I'm thinking off throwing out:
- 1 Shardless Agent
- 1 Selkie Hedge-Mage
Also not totally sure about 2 to 3 Abrupt Decay

I would actually love to incorporate more discard (Thoughtseize) or aggressive removal via Surgical Extraction, since Cabal Therapy can be used agressively in this deck. Surgical Extraction would also give us a Gitaxian Probe-like peek, which I ran before, but often didn't really feel like a draw I wanted. I've also seen lists that included Tarmogoyf, which seems interesting, but I don't think it's optimal. I've thought about adding 1 Vendilion Clique, but I think it would be too random and it can't be tutored by Imperial Recruiter, sadly. Snapcaster Mage could be interesting, but I think it might rip the core of the deck out of its context too hard, perhaps.

Anyways, did a bunch of playtesting recently and am really loving the deck. Yesterday, for instance, I playtested vs. Jund (which seems to be a hard match-up for this deck), but came out 3-1, with turn 3 kills on my side.

Thoughts? I especially want to sculpt the SB further!

[Whippoorwill]

[15] Sideboard:
1 Yixlid Jailer (not only useful for Storm, but for Goyf's as well! ;) )

Unfortunately it doesn't affect Goyf since the cards retain their card types. It just stops things like Flashback, Dredge, Persist, etc.

As you can see, I'm not running an Imperial Recruiter main, but simply Living Wish it via the sideboard. I proxied up 4 Recruiters and ran them main and honestly ... they felt like dead draws most of the time and in most cases required running a Taiga (when not having a DS out), which is just asking to be Wastelanded. Cascading into a Recruiter is also a huge bummer and you don't really want it in your hand. It's just asking to be discarded, really.

I usually won't fetch a Taiga until I have the rest of my mana set or I know it's safe to fetch it. I usually don't care about casting Recruiter anyways until I have Aluren out. Having 2+ in hand just makes it even easier to win since you cast the extras when they respond to your first Recruiter.

Also, Cascade won't draw/cast Recruiter since it has the same cost as Agent.

Baleful Strix is also a huge improvement over Wall of Blossoms. Wall of Blossoms can't be combo'd with via Cavern Harpy, Baleful Strix however can be a combo-piece (albeit slow). It's also a huge threat, buying time. An opponent simply won't attack with his Goyf if there's a BS on the battlefield, which buys you a lot of time. If he does decide to attack, you've just gotten rid of a Goyf for 2 + a draw! Most of the time it's a good source for Abrupt Decay / Lightning Bolt, which means it has served its purpose perfectly! I think it's one of the most excellent draws you can get. You're never bummed out Cascading into one or drawing one, since it always pays for itself.

I agree on all points. Strix is a magnet for removal. I'd suggest going up to the full 4 though.

Coiling Oracle; not all of you are super thrilled with this guy, but I love him. He's another potential combo-piece (albeit a slow one as well) and it feels awesome playing it on turn two via DS or a land and then bumping into another land, means we're solid on 4 mana for the next turn. He synergises well with Cabal Therapy, Brainstorm and Lim-Dul's Vault!

He's nice, but he also gives your opponent quite a bit of information. If you don't hit a land, then your opponent gets to see what you drew which is why I removed them completely and went to the 4 Strix. And just playing it makes it obvious you're playing Aluren (to those know are aware of the deck) since I don't think any other decks play it. Being able to misrepresent your deck can lead your your opponent playing differently which will cause them to potentially misplay.

Shardless Agent; what can I say ... I prefer it highly over running Recruiters main and it's also a decent beater for the longer grindy games. I would love to run into an Ancestral Vision, but I don't know if the deck can really support it. What would you swap out for it anyways?

I would suggest the Intuitions and Lim-Dul's Vaults. But I think it really depends on the complete build since you have much more things to Cascade into. Based on your current list (adjusting 1 Harpy for a Witness) you have 25 cards (9 different cards) that you can Cascade into which would lower the chances of hitting Vision. At that point I don't think Vision is worth running.

Intuition is an awesome card, but I do feel it's the weakpoint of the deck; getting 3 Aluren's and 2 discarded is just asking for it to be extracted via Surgical Extraction, though playing it for 3 Cabal Therapy's is absolutely awesome and can be a huge game-changer. I see it as a back-up plan.

If you expect Extraction you can always side it out after game 1.

Lim-Dul's Vault is one of my personal favorites. The lists using it varies wildly, but it has saved my ass multiple times, especially when combo-ing with Shardless Agent and just hoping to run into it so you can find a Parasitic Strix (which you can pick up via Coiling Oracle or Baleful Strix) or running into a Living Wish or even early-game when finding Aluren or a Force of Will. It's a solid-cantrip-like-tutor which synergises well with Shardless Agent.

Definitely a solid card in this deck.

I thought about adding Sol lands (mainly Ancient Tomb), but I feel the deck can't really afford getting it on the draw, since so much is multi-colored.

Definitely too hard on the mana base since you need access to 3 (sometimes more) colors and the number of cards to actually use the mana on are limited.

The sideboard ... it's still very much under construction. Right now it focusses on Living Wish targets for sollutions or ramping (getting some ramping with an Ancient Tomb or possibly another Deathrite Shaman), but it leaves little room for actual sideboarding. I'm thinking off throwing out:
- 1 Shardless Agent
- 1 Selkie Hedge-Mage
Also not totally sure about 2 to 3 Abrupt Decay

That's one of the biggest downsides to the Wish builds and part of why I avoided it. Plus it makes you want to fit in more and more cards you don't need just because you can. Going to 4 Shardless main is good, no reason to have it in the side really. Selkie I liked at first, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized I didn't need it. The life gain is nice, but why am I gaining life instead of just winning? Maybe if Strix got removed or something, but that should be generally easy enough to avoid since there's no point casting it until we go off. Obviously it can be discarded then removed, so that is a valid concern.

I would actually love to incorporate more discard (Thoughtseize) or aggressive removal via Surgical Extraction, since Cabal Therapy can be used agressively in this deck. Surgical Extraction would also give us a Gitaxian Probe-like peek, which I ran before, but often didn't really feel like a draw I wanted. I've also seen lists that included Tarmogoyf, which seems interesting, but I don't think it's optimal. I've thought about adding 1 Vendilion Clique, but I think it would be too random and it can't be tutored by Imperial Recruiter, sadly. Snapcaster Mage could be interesting, but I think it might rip the core of the deck out of its context too hard, perhaps.

Thoughtseize is definitely good, so I would run those if you have the spots.

I like Extraction, but Extirpate *may* be worth considering over it due to the split second since it is in our colors. There are decks like Tin Fins and Manaless Dredge that can respond to the Extraction. But other times the Split Second won't matter, so it's really a personal choice.

Goyf isn't worth the spots. It just changes the deck to a bad aggro deck since everything else is still a 1/1 or 2/2.

Clique is nice since it has a bit of flexibility in that it can give us information about our opponent's hand, cycle a card in our hands, pitch to Force or help us with the aggro plan. Not being able to tutor for it with Recruiter isn't much of a drawback since there's usually key cards to tutor for instead. More so when only running 1 Recruiter since that Recruiter pretty much has to find Stalker/Strix or something to win the game.

Snapcaster doesn't fit with the deck due to the low number of Instants/Sorceries. Plus Cascading into it with Shardless with no mana open sucks.

Thoughts? I especially want to sculpt the SB further!

My main suggestion is to decide what they key things are that you want from your Wish board then cut all the non-essential things. The deck has a lot of flexibility which makes it easy to go overboard on creatures in the sideboard. You don't really want to get to the point where you have your main deck and just a wish board. I think T.E.S. has a good example when it comes to Wish boards - 7 Wish targets and 8 others. That way you still have a decent amount of cards to board in that aren't dependent on Wish. For those cards, I would suggest 2-3 Abrupt Decay, X Graveyard hate (Deathrite alone isn't enough, Bog is nice in a Wish build though), probably some Thoughtseizes and depending on how many spaces left, metagame calls. Possibly a Karakas if Reanimator/Sneak and Show is big in your meta.


_____________

Again stealing from T.E.S. - What do you guys think of putting Xantid Swarm in the side? It would be mainly for the control matchups but I could see it being brought inagainst decks that can also use Aluren in order to stop them from using Aluren on your turn. Being able to tutor for it with Recruiter is also a plus. I think I might try it out in the Swan Song slot in my most recent list.

[Admiral_Arzar]

Again stealing from T.E.S. - What do you guys think of putting Xantid Swarm in the side? It would be mainly for the control matchups but I could see it being brought inagainst decks that can also use Aluren in order to stop them from using Aluren on your turn. Being able to tutor for it with Recruiter is also a plus. I think I might try it out in the Swan Song slot in my most recent list.

I have considered both Xantid Swarm and Carpet of Flowers (the latter for tempo, getting Aluren Dazed blows). I just haven't tested either of them yet, although they could be good.

[theBloody]

Carpet doing work. Recommended.

[GoblinZ]

I have considered both Xantid Swarm and Carpet of Flowers (the latter for tempo, getting Aluren Dazed blows). I just haven't tested either of them yet, although they could be good.

I tested carpet of flowers before, it can easily ruin a blue based tempo deck on its own. I play xantid swarm in Ant and tes agianst snt decks or reanimaters, but I donnot think it fits aluren very well.

[DemolitionColorScheme]

Unfortunately it doesn't affect Goyf since the cards retain their card types. It just stops things like Flashback, Dredge, Persist, etc.

Ah! I recently read that it affected Goyf as well, though it does actually make sense that it doesn't. ;)

I usually won't fetch a Taiga until I have the rest of my mana set or I know it's safe to fetch it. I usually don't care about casting Recruiter anyways until I have Aluren out. Having 2+ in hand just makes it even easier to win since you cast the extras when they respond to your first Recruiter.

I'll give you that. Having a backup is nice, but it comes at a price (not just financially, but in terms of deckspace as well)

Also, Cascade won't draw/cast Recruiter since it has the same cost as Agent.

My point. It just skips the Recruiter, which is a key-piece that I want out. If Recruiter had a CMC of 2, I would - indeed - play 2 main, or even 4.

I agree on all points. Strix is a magnet for removal. I'd suggest going up to the full 4 though.

(Regarding Oracle) : He's nice, but he also gives your opponent quite a bit of information. If you don't hit a land, then your opponent gets to see what you drew which is why I removed them completely and went to the 4 Strix. And just playing it makes it obvious you're playing Aluren (to those know are aware of the deck) since I don't think any other decks play it. Being able to misrepresent your deck can lead your your opponent playing differently which will cause them to potentially misplay.

Giving away the intel, that is a downside, I do agree, but you could say the same for Dark Confidant. ;) The thing is, Oracle gives a huge advantage vs. combo's like ANT/TES and OmniTell, whereas I'd probably even side the Strixes out for discard / hate if I encounter those. I agree that the element of surprise is a nice thing, but it'll last you for 1 round of even shorter; the opponent just needs to Probe you / cast a discard and they'll probably know what you're all about once they see an Aluren and a few 2 / 3 CMC creatures.

I would suggest the Intuitions and Lim-Dul's Vaults. But I think it really depends on the complete build since you have much more things to Cascade into. Based on your current list (adjusting 1 Harpy for a Witness) you have 25 cards (9 different cards) that you can Cascade into which would lower the chances of hitting Vision. At that point I don't think Vision is worth running.

Agreed. I don't think Vision has its place, sadly.

(Intuition) : If you expect Extraction you can always side it out after game 1.

Agreed. It'll probably always be the first thing to go when sideboarding.

That's one of the biggest downsides to the Wish builds and part of why I avoided it. Plus it makes you want to fit in more and more cards you don't need just because you can. Going to 4 Shardless main is good, no reason to have it in the side really. Selkie I liked at first, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized I didn't need it. The life gain is nice, but why am I gaining life instead of just winning? Maybe if Strix got removed or something, but that should be generally easy enough to avoid since there's no point casting it until we go off. Obviously it can be discarded then removed, so that is a valid concern.

Yes, agreed. I've already adjusted the sideboard to focus less on Wishing creatures. I also feel the same way regarding Selkie. It just stalls and it's basically a wasted Wish.

Thoughtseize is definitely good, so I would run those if you have the spots.

They're in the SB right now. How about removal, like Abrupt Decay?

I like Extraction, but Extirpate *may* be worth considering over it due to the split second since it is in our colors. There are decks like Tin Fins and Manaless Dredge that can respond to the Extraction. But other times the Split Second won't matter, so it's really a personal choice.

While I agree that Extirpate is better on paper; having Aluren ready to cast with 4 mana and having a Surgical in hand gives us the ability to pay the 2 life; perhaps even remove a Force of Will. If that gets countered, we've gotten rid of a counter, if not, we've just extracted FoW. If there's nothing of importance to extract, we can still peek their hand and see if we can go off. So, I feel Surgical takes the crown for that application! We are piloting a combo deck, so, speed is in our interest - so is our manabase.

Goyf isn't worth the spots. It just changes the deck to a bad aggro deck since everything else is still a 1/1 or 2/2.

Agreed. I wouldn't be able to find a place for it anyways.

Clique is nice since it has a bit of flexibility in that it can give us information about our opponent's hand, cycle a card in our hands, pitch to Force or help us with the aggro plan. Not being able to tutor for it with Recruiter isn't much of a drawback since there's usually key cards to tutor for instead. More so when only running 1 Recruiter since that Recruiter pretty much has to find Stalker/Strix or something to win the game.

While I absolutely love Clique, I don't think I can justify the spot. It can't be Cascaded into, it can't be tutored and when not having Aluren out, we're often focussing on ramping and hate. I wouldn't hate drawing it, but it isn't really a suitable combo-piece in this deck. Shardless Agent can finish the game via Cascading constantly, whereas Clique just makes us swap our own cards or discards a card of the opponent and them having to randomly maybe even draw a solution in return. It's a never-ending random loop that I think just doesn't work in this deck - at least, optimally.

Snapcaster doesn't fit with the deck due to the low number of Instants/Sorceries. Plus Cascading into it with Shardless with no mana open sucks.

I agree. We can't miss the mana, so it's kinda dead card mid-combo.

My main suggestion is to decide what they key things are that you want from your Wish board then cut all the non-essential things. The deck has a lot of flexibility which makes it easy to go overboard on creatures in the sideboard. You don't really want to get to the point where you have your main deck and just a wish board. I think T.E.S. has a good example when it comes to Wish boards - 7 Wish targets and 8 others. That way you still have a decent amount of cards to board in that aren't dependent on Wish. For those cards, I would suggest 2-3 Abrupt Decay, X Graveyard hate (Deathrite alone isn't enough, Bog is nice in a Wish build though), probably some Thoughtseizes and depending on how many spaces left, metagame calls. Possibly a Karakas if Reanimator/Sneak and Show is big in your meta.

Absolutely agreed.

The current sideboard is:
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Cavern Harpy
1 Parasitic Strix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Phyrexian Revoker / 1 Ethersworn Canonist / 1 Meddling Mage / 1 Yixlid Jailer / 1 Sedraxis Alchemist (I haven't decided yet which would provide the best hate and buys us enough time)
1 Bojuka Bog (ramp + graveyard hate; useful for Storm, Dredge and even Threshold - can't be countered, only Stifled)
2-3 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize
2-3 Surgical Extraction

Optional (depends on the amount of hate-creatures I put in):
1 Deathrite Shaman (access to ramping and is actually a solid Wish which can probably be played instantly in the same turn as the Wish)
1 Karakas (I had that in, but you brought it up again with good reason! Karakas isn't to be trifled with!)
2 Carpet of Flowers

Again stealing from T.E.S. - What do you guys think of putting Xantid Swarm in the side? It would be mainly for the control matchups but I could see it being brought inagainst decks that can also use Aluren in order to stop them from using Aluren on your turn. Being able to tutor for it with Recruiter is also a plus. I think I might try it out in the Swan Song slot in my most recent list.

I love Xantid Swarm, but it is a dead card mid-combo, sadly. It IS quite handy when drawing it before we hit 4 mana and Aluren, though after that it is completely useless, sadly. I would hate Cascading into it when comboing with Shardless Agent. I wouldn't know where to place it ...

[DemolitionColorScheme]

Alright, a little update regarding the current sideboard:
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Cavern Harpy
1 Parasitic Strix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Meddling Mage
1 Sedraxis Alchemist
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize
3 Surgical Extraction

Couldn't really find an optimal use for Karakas here. Show and Tell is actually quite an easy match up. Or you play Meddling Mage or you drop an Aluren with his Show and Tell. He drops Omniscience. You take priority with your Flash creatures and keep priority via the creatures and cascading. This works, right? I mean, even the Cascaded cards, even though they're Sorceries, are just triggered via the Cascade, correct. I retain priority. He can drop an Enter the Infinite or 'Kul, but not at instant speed, which means I can keep bouncing a Harpy and an Agent.

Meddling Mage provided to be a winning condition vs. ANT as well. Just name Infernal Tutor. Those were reasonable easy matches, especially after sideboarding more discard and Surgicals. Cabal Therapy on Infernal Tutor, Surgical on Tutor. GG. Cascading into a Surgical is ... haha, so awesome.

[Darkenslight]

Demolition: either way, you can go off in response to their casting the spell if you have the parts in hand, so you could theoretically win with their wincon on the stack. In addition, how useful is Coiling Oracle here with the Harpy?

[DireLemming]

In Shardless Wish version there is no point in playing Strix main. Also, the utility of Recruiter is so marginal that it does not outweigh the 2 slots (Stalker main and Recruiter in SB) it takes. I'm having decent results with:

2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Polluted Delta
3 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp

3 Coiling Oracle
4 Shardless Agent
4 Baleful Strix
1 Cavern Harpy
1 Eternal Witness
1 Vendilion Clique

4 Living Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Lim-Dul's Vault
2 Intuition
4 Aluren
2 Chain of Vapor

Sideboard:
1 Cavern Harpy
1 Parasitic Strix
1 Sedraxis Alchemist
1 City of Traitors
1 Bojuka Bog
10 meta

The Clique and (at least) the second Chain are marginal but I haven't found anything I like more in those slots. If this were about half a turn faster, it would be a real contender.

[DemolitionColorScheme]

Demolition: either way, you can go off in response to their casting the spell if you have the parts in hand, so you could theoretically win with their wincon on the stack. In addition, how useful is Coiling Oracle here with the Harpy?

Exactly. Like I thought.
Coiling Oracle is simply a ramp, sacrificial food for Cabal Therapy and is a possible combo piece. It's an early drop that can speed things along. If the Oracle might be all I have at the moment with a Harpy, it can still get me Shardless Agent or something else.

[DemolitionColorScheme]

In Shardless Wish version there is no point in playing Strix main. Also, the utility of Recruiter is so marginal that it does not outweigh the 2 slots (Stalker main and Recruiter in SB) it takes.

I disagree. What if Shardless Agent is all you have at the moment and you happen to Cascade into a Living Wish. You'd pick Harpy to get going and hope to Cascade into another Wish or a Lim-Dul's Vault.
I had the exact same feeling you did, that Recruiter didn't do much, but without it, we are gambling quite a bit with Lim-Dul's Vault and Cascading. I've also had times that I could drop out Aluren (after peeking the opponent's hand, seeing that I was free of counters/discard) and just did so to have it out there safely (knowing they can't remove it on the board), having a Living Wish and a few lands in hand, no creatures. Next turn would have to be a Wish for Recruiter which would start the entire chain. If I wished for a Harpy ... that's all I would have, 1 Harpy. You can't do jack with 1 Harpy. ;)

The downside of a list without atleast 1 Recruiter is that the Harpy -> Shardless Agent loop is a life-clock waiting to hit something. It can work, and it has worked, but trying that vs. something more burn/aggro based is a BIG no-no. You can't permit to gamble that life away and being burned down to 5 or so just leaves too much gambling room you can't afford. At least, that's my experience.

Getting 1 Recruiter instead gets you:
Recruiter -> search Dream Stalker -> Bounce Recruiter w/ Stalker -> Recruiter again -> search Cavern Harpy -> Play Harpy w/ Bounce effect -> Dream Stalker -> Recruiter Bounce via Stalker -> search for Parasitic Strix -> end. The upside is that you can even get Eternal Witness and bounce that to secure victory, depending on your Graveyard. Get a Cabal Therapy back (which you can even loop, depending on your open mana) or a FoW, Surgical Extraction or whatever.

Recruiter basically needs 1 Wish, whereas Shardless is random. Playing 1 Harpy main means you probably won't pick it up fast, so you need 2 Wishes; one for Harpy, one for Strix. If one of your Wishes gets countered or the Strix or Harpy gets countered, you're pretty much screwed. I also see you run 1 Eternal Witness main, without Stalker you can't even bounce it. It's a one time play, might work, but ... how do you get it? You can't Cascade into it, so you just hope to Lim-Dul's Vault it and then pick it up with Baleful / Oracle. Very random and you just can't depend on it, if you ask me.

If this were about half a turn faster, it would be a real contender.

Deathrite Shaman ... ;)

[DireLemming]

If you go off right it's very unlikely you will fizzle. Even the original version with Man o'War and Raven got there consistently. You just have to be careful with the little things like how to stack cascade and draws, the interplay between Oracle, BS and Shardless, how to maximize CoV chains, ...

You can still recur Witness in my version via Sedraxis Alchemist (but it might be, a second Witness main is warranted) and the Recruiter version is just as soft to counterspells.

Deathrite helps you play Aluren faster, but for the price of consistency later, which might be why we differ as to the necessity of Recruiter.

Also I don't see the point of Stalker with only 1 Recruiter. MoW can at least tempo the opponent.

[DemolitionColorScheme]

If you go off right it's very unlikely you will fizzle. Even the original version with Man o'War and Raven got there consistently. You just have to be careful with the little things like how to stack cascade and draws, the interplay between Oracle, BS and Shardless, how to maximize CoV chains, ...

You can still recur Witness in my version via Sedraxis Alchemist (but it might be, a second Witness main is warranted) and the Recruiter version is just as soft to counterspells.

Deathrite helps you play Aluren faster, but for the price of consistency later, which might be why we differ as to the necessity of Recruiter.

Also I don't see the point of Stalker with only 1 Recruiter. MoW can at least tempo the opponent.

Raven had the ability to at least dig deeper, so that 1 life you paid for Harpy became less of a risk. You can't deny that Shardless Agent and its Cascading is a gamble, always. I mean, I can't see you disagreeing with that, right? It's not consistent and it's very much luck-based, until you hit a Lim-Dul's Vault (which needs life as well) or a Living Wish, soon. I love it and it works, but it is always a gamble which you need to pay for with life. It's my backup plan.

I love Sedraxis, but it doesn't work for me main, at least not with my Recruiter-Wish-build. I need a blue permanent next to it to work. I do have it sided for Leylines, etc.
I prefer Dream Stalker over Man-o'-War due to the CMC of 2 (can be Cascaded into, which gives you a free Shardless once more), its 5 thoughness (can't be bolted away, or no Grim Lavamancer can burn it) and while Man-o'-War is useful; in the meta of Goyfs, Dark Confidants, Stoneforge Mystics, Nimble Mongooses, Shardless Agents and Delvers (which is useful to bounce if its flipped), etc. bouncing creatures with Aluren out is absolutely useless because they can instantly just drop them back on the board ...

Also, all I need is one Stalker, so not sure what's not to get of running only 1 with 1 Recruiter. 4 Recruiters is therefore pretty much a waste for me. Single chain once more:
Wish -> Recruiter -> Play Recruiter for Dream Stalker -> Play Dream Stalker and bounce Recruiter -> Play Recruiter for Cavern Harpy -> Play Cavern Harpy to bounce Dream Stalker -> Play Dream Stalker to bounce Recruiter -> Play Recruiter to find either Eternal Witness (if you need to re-use stuff from the Graveyard) or end it directly via looking for a Parasitic Strix.

I'm not seeing your point regarding losing consistency with Deathrite Shaman? It actually ups the consistency of the deck and in the current meta it can be a HUGE game changer. It can stall the opponent, eating their fetch so they can't accelerate with their own DS, it can accelerate our own gameplan so we can drop an early Living Wish or whatever, it can remove stuff like Life from the Loam, for instance. It makes the back up plan of stalling with critters and shooting with Shamans viable.

[theBloody]

I prefer Dream Stalker over Man-o'-War due to the CMC of 2 (can be Cascaded into, which gives you a free Shardless once more)...

Shardless is still on stack so you can't use Dream Stalker to return him.