Kudos for artifact mutation. It is instant speed and gives us 5 1/1 tokens versus batterskull. great stuff. However it is not discard proof like grudge and cannot be used twice. Grudge dodges counter magic, too. But Artifact Mutation is a close second. good sideboard tech.
Compost isn't too slow. It is boarded in grindy matchups that tend to go long. The card advantage wins us these games if our tempo plan does not finish the opponent right from the start.
This is the current list I'm testing:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Wasteland
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Young Pyromancer
SB: 2 Fire Covenant
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 3 Submerge
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 1 Cabal Therapy
Young Pyromancer is the shiz! I hated Goyf as it made the deck too GY reliant. I tried playing 3 YP (-1 FoW to the board) but it felt too clunky. Contrary to popular belief, YP does not suck in top deck mode. It gives us 1.5 cards per top deck and yes, the deck doesn't run YP as Grixis Tempo or other "dedicated" YP lists but when both you and your opponent are in top deck mode YP gives us the edge we need. WTH, I think it's worth testing.
Bad day for bUrg..
2-3-1
Draw against ant...he was thinking so long and without the timeout i would winning this match. 1:2
Lose against maverick..shouldn't happen make a very bad stifle missplay..1:2
Win against esper rip top random deck^^2:1
Lose against loam pox..mull to 4 and with 1 land a good start hand but don't find a land with cantrips lol. 1:2
Win against a new player with reanimate 2:0
Was playing against a friend with youngmancer grixis tempo. 1:2
Was the best game for today. I still think it's a good match up.
I will now playing 2 fire conventants. It's to good.
Shitty day and my badest results.But happens.
Bad day for bUrg..
2-3-1
Draw against ant...he was thinking so long and without the timeout i would winning this match. 1:2
Lose against maverick..shouldn't happen make a very bad stifle missplay..1:2
Win against esper rip top random deck^^2:1
Lose against loam pox..mull to 4 and with 1 land a good start hand but don't find a land with cantrips lol. 1:2
Win against a new player with reanimate 2:0
Was playing against a friend with youngmancer grixis tempo. 1:2
Was the best game for today. I still think it's a good match up.
I will now playing 2 fire conventants. It's to good.
Shitty day and my badest results.But happens.
@pdingo: No problem :-) that can happen. My last tournament was 2-2-2. Sometimes it becomes clear that there is a certain variance.
@ Young Pyromancer: Sherko7, your decklist is almost the same as my stock list but with the difference of YP instead of Goyf. So let us discuss that topic.
Young Pyromancer is better than Goyf...
... in the early game - he is good for speed starts and competes with Shaman, Delver and Wasteland/Stifle in that game state.
...versus Lilliana decks.
...versus decks that rely on Swords or Decay as main removal.
Goyf is better than YP...
... in the late game - therefore we can only run 2 of him as we only need him end game to seal the deal.
...versus tribal.
....versus Punishing Fire decks.
So you see, Goyf has some huge benefits. Goyf is not too bad in the situations where YP shines, it is ok. YP is really bad or not so great in situations where Goyf shines. As you see, playing Goyf is a more balanced approach. As we only have two slots Goyf is superior because YP loves to be a four-off. Furthermore YP stretches the mana base (you need red instead of green in contrast to all creatures besides the blue Delver). With YP you will get moren often mana screwed.
To sum it up:
Goyf is still the way to go.
I agree with most of your points. However, I feel like YP is much more versatile mid-late game than Goyf. I am planning to put the 3rd YP back in, maybe in place of the 3rd Snare and go up to 14 creatures. I am still unimpressed about Goyf, and how GY-reliant it makes the deck. I feel like DRS + Goose is enough. Cliques might even be better. YP also does good to satisfactory work against Tribal. It creates chump blockers, and sometimes that's more than enough to stall the game and win with Delver/DRS.Originally Posted by Sasan
I have some decent results with this decklist http://czeternal.cz/2013/09/legacy-5-kolo-brno-2/ (my deck is 2nd place). Enginereed Explosives in side was actually Enginereed Plague (metagame call). I already swapped Plague for another Thoughtseize and I am really happy how deck perform. My biggest enemy now is UWR Delver. After SB they have Submerges, Swords, Lightning Bolt and Rest in Peace and I feel like my only chance is counter Rest in Peace and get threshold for Mongoose. In traditional RUG the best side option against them is Rough/Tumble, but due to Shamans I dont like it in BURG and Covenant cant kill Geist and also is pretty bad against tempo decks, mby Pyroclasm can be way to go. Next thing I am considering is adding second Ancient Grudge, because 1 in SB is little bit random and resolved Batterskull is usually game over for us. Grudge can be useful against Shardless Bug too.
Hi! Im a fan of the deck. This is my list with some explanations:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Tarmogoyf
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Wasteland
3 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
2 Spell Snare
1 Life from the Loam
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
SB: 2 Fire Covenant
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 3 Submerge
SB: 2 Dread of Night
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
Misdirection: I know 3 FoWs are ugly but I like how Misdi protect us against super cheap removal like Bolt, Decay and StP, a well timed Misdi can change the game. Its also good vs Tourach and A.Vision.
LftL Maindeck: I seriously think that LftL is broken in this deck. Its synergyc with Wasteland, Goyf, DRS, Goose, Fetchs, even Brainstorm and Ponder, we have DRS so we can cast it more often than RUG and we always side in it against tempo and midrange decks anyway. Having it in G1 imho is pretty strong.
2 Dread of Night: I hate D&T and Maverick. I always want to have one in play every game so 2ofs is necessary.
What I want to try now is -1 Volcanic Island +1 Scalding Tarn. I think that we don't really need the third red source because we never side in both Pyroblast and Fire Covenant. When I have Taiga and Underground Sea in play I always fetch for Tropical, actually for me Volcanic is the worst land and Im never happy when I see two of them. I can't even think of a situation where I need two red source at the same time in play. 8 fetchs give us a little more chance to have both Taiga and Sea in play as fast as possible and the extra shuffle effect in a deck with 8 cantrip is always good.
My 2 cents.
Last edited by Jax-; 09-01-2019 at 11:03 AM.
I agree about the three red sources being an overabundance. The one more counter that can be fit in is much more relevant and so are fetchlands for optimal probability of choosing what land you want.
Rest in peace, Grandpa Morphling.
Nemeses Slain:4
You'll be needing Goyf versus Punishing Fire.decI agree with most of your points. However, I feel like YP is much more versatile mid-late game than Goyf. I am planning to put the 3rd YP back in, maybe in place of the 3rd Snare and go up to 14 creatures. I am still unimpressed about Goyf, and how GY-reliant it makes the deck. I feel like DRS + Goose is enough. Cliques might even be better. YP also does good to satisfactory work against Tribal. It creates chump blockers, and sometimes that's more than enough to stall the game and win with Delver/DRS.
Nice list, it is not so different from the stock list, especially in the main deck.
The UWR Delver matchup is totally winnable. It is a matchup where Snare shines - perhaps you want to play three main deck just like me ;-).
For all of you having probls in this matchup I want to introduce you a new secret tech:
Troll Ascetic.
it is the little brother of Thrun. The latter is better but not castable. Troll Ascetic gets the job done, too. It is Mongoose 5 without relying on the graveyard, it can block and kill Geist and regenerate - it is the creature that gives UWR massive headaches besides Mongoose. Troll Ascetic is also good versus all control decks and a resolved Troll against Deathblade
means that they cannot win anymore - a resolved batterskull will end in a draw due to the chump blocking ability.
Thanks for your input. It is a list that has some tweaks compared to my list so let us discuss them.
I would strongly advise you to play 2 Flusterstorms and only 2 Pierces in the SB. Flusterstorms are stronger versus combo as Pierce. We need to have a good matchup versus combo even after they board their hate.
Otherwise: Good sideboard. I envy you that you have the space for the second Dread but this is achieved by
... adding Loam to the main deck. I agree that Loam gets sided in so many times in the current meta. It is certainly a card that can win some matchups on its own. It also stabilizes our sometimes greedy mana base. But you achieve that interesting inclusion of Loam to the MD by cutting a Snare. That cannot be right. Snares are super good these days and hit nearly every key spell. We need three.
If you play in a midrange meta, Snares are the last things to cut. Normally you can cut one Force and add it to the sideboard in a meta like this one. As you only play 3 Forces Misdirection should get the axe. It is nice but too situational. As a one off it is never there when you need it. RUG Delver players opted for diverts after the printing of decay but they soon abandoned that idea due to the limited success.
Last edited by Sasan; 10-12-2013 at 08:13 AM.
I did -1 Misdi +1 Snare. Now I have 4 Daze 3 FoW 3 Snare MD, in the sideboard I did -1 Pierce +1 Flusterstorm.
Im keeping LftL MD. With the current meta I like to have a little more strong matchup vs tempo and midrange in G1.
I really want to MD the 4th FoW but I don't have any slot.
My mana base right now is: 8 fetches 2 Seas 2 Tropicals 1 Volcanic 1 Taiga. Its feeling good.
The deck feel strong in general. Its really powerful and I feel confident in any matchup. The sideboard is IMHO the best set of cards I ever seen, with a lot of 2x.
This deck is 7-0 right now, gonna make Top 8 of SCG Milwaukee. Piloted by Ed Leung
Yes! He made top 5 with a list that is 74/75 the same as the one in the primer. He played with my old list where I played Clique in the SB instead of Dread/Compost.
Here is his list:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=59863
Congrats to Edman :-) Perhaps he can write a tournament report. Is he member here in the forums?
Last edited by Sasan; 10-14-2013 at 03:12 AM.
Thanks Sasan! This is Edman, I just registered ; )
I've been away from the game for about four years and I just started playing again this spring with some prodding (and cards!) from a good friend. I was active in the Vintage scene from about 2003 through 2009 but I've never really played much Legacy so this was an excellent result for me. I've been testing with your version of BURG tempo (great deck!) for several weeks in preparation for SCG Milwaukee and it definitely paid off. I ran Vendilion Clique over Dread of Night or Compost because the hate cards seemed excessive to me. I felt that Vendilion Clique's versatility was more relevant than the dedicated hate since Fire Covenant is already so strong against Maverick and Death and Taxes. Though I used your sideboarding plan as a guide (Stifle out against aggro, removal/creatures out for combo, and Daze out for slow combo/control) I ended up running my sideboarding based mostly on instinct throughout the day.
I did not take any notes or life totals during the tournament (MTG Familiar FTW!!!) so any tournament report would be from memory and generally lacking in detail but I did play against almost the entire Legacy metagame over the course of the Saturday Trial and the Sunday Main Event. My only match loss over 11 rounds of play was to Dredge in the top eight of the main event. Frankly, one piece of dedicated grave hate and three Deathrite Shaman are not enough to beat that deck with any consistency. I decided to make that concession before the tournament and I paid for it. Such is life.
There is quite a lot of play to the deck and there were several absolutely critical decisions (not Stifling fetchlands, not using a fetchland to pump Mongoose, etc.) that won me games throughout Saturday and Sunday. I think that I played very well throughout and that I was rewarded by the deck. Since I don't own cards, I don't know how much Legacy I'll play in the future (I do get an invite to the SCG Invitational...) but I think I will stick with this deck for the near future. Spell Snare is incredible, fooling the opponent on your color and card combos is incredible, Deathrite Shaman is incredible, Abrupt Decay is incredible, etc.
Big thank you to the Germans for developing such a powerful and fun deck!
I like the idea of running baby Thrun. Are you proposing running one or two? The difficulty is in choosing something to side out, I suppose.
Rest in peace, Grandpa Morphling.
Nemeses Slain:4
Hey mog,
Could you please say what decks you played and your record against them?
Thanks!!
A one off in the usual flex slot of Clique/Dread/Compost in the SB.
Hey,
You can check against the standings to confirm my game records, but this is what I remember:
Saturday Trial
Round 1: 2-0 against RUG Delver. He played well but waited too long with a Submerge on my Tarmogoyf (he wanted me to fetch/pump Mongoose and Submerge in response).
Round 2: 2-1 against Merfolk. Tidebinder blows me out game one but I won games two and three with creatures and counters.
Round 3: 2-1 against Omnishow. He killed me with Emrakul game one but put me on BUG and boarded in Leyline against me. His draws weren't great games two and three.
Round 4: ID against Big Red. I beat him in the fun games 2-1. Kept a bad hand game one (didn't know what he was playing) but get him with counters and Ancient Grudge games two and three.
Sunday Main Event
Round 1: 2-0 against Jund. He walks into Stifle four times. Too many habits from playing Modern.
Round 2: 2-1 against Grixis Delver. I got a game loss on deck registration error. He plays double Force of Will to protect Bob and kill Delver and I get there with Deathrite and Tarmogoyf.
Round 3: 2-1 against Jund. He beat me game one with four Tarmogoyf. We each had two active Deathrite in game two but mine come out on top. Game three had a lot of Wastelands on both sides. At the end, he has Deathrite, Bob, and Tarmogoyf but I ramp to five mana and hardcast Submerge on Bob two times to lock his draw. His only mana were Deathrite and a Wasteland.
Round 4: 2-1 against Sneak Show. He kills me with Emrakul game one but he has slow hands games two and three. Game three he had answers to my Delver but they are red and he only has blue. I think a greedy fetch for red early in the game would have beat me.
Round 5: 2-0 against Death and Taxes. Game one is close since he has Spellskite, Thalia, and active Mangara with Karakas. I flood the board with creatures and just attack through. Game 2 had lots of Mom but I again just flood the board and attack through. Flying is amazing.
Round 6: 2-0 against Shardless BUG. I beat him game one with Deathrite, Mongoose, Wasteland, and Stifle. Game two I had three Wastelands and he had two Wastelands so we stare at each other for a while and discard cards. I draw out of it faster and get Delver on the table and some Stifles on his fetches, Spell Snares on his guys, etc. He really did not like Spell Snare after trying so hard to play around Daze.
Round 7: 2-0 against Patriot Delver. This is recorded at SCG. Game one I just have all the cards. Game two, I sandbagged a Stifle to use with Force on his Geist and Cliqued a Batterskull. That feels so good.
Round 8: ID against Reanimator.
Round 9: ID against Pod Fit.
Quarterfinal: 0-2 against Dredge. I counter his first two plays, Wasteland him, and get Deathrite active, but he draws Careful Study into Breakthrough and chain dredges three Stinkweed and he hits a Narcomoeba and three Bridge. He gives me an out when he Flayers my Deathrite exiling all his Bridges. Of course, he hits his last Bridge on the next draw. Game 2 I Waste him twice and counter his play but he has more lands and more plays.
Except for Dredge, I had a great tournament. It is a terrible feeling to lose to a bad solitaire player.
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