Commander 2013 discussion

[lyracian]

I'm interested to see whether or not Maro answers my question how this ended up blue instead of white, given that protection is white's domain and blue is the color with the least protection creatures (yes, even red has one more, I counted).

The only reason I can think of why the best White Knight ever is not Blue is becuase it is part of a cycle (like the Curses) so every colour gets one of these...

[DLifshitz]

It's actually not that good.

It is, though. In many respects it's better than Geist, and Geist is pretty solid already. I am certain it will end up in control sideboards and probably in some in Merfolk and tempo mainboards. Team America could probably use it to replace Tombstalker. It's also an uninteractive, inelegant, color-pie-breaking design, and an obvious ploy to get Legacy players to buy 3-4 copies of EDH decks. I expect Maro will soon tweet some inane explanation of why it's blue.

[TsumiBand]

It's actually not that good.

I don't think the complaint is its playability, I think the complaint is "why in the living shit isn't this White"? I don't have to tell you that most Eternal players have a sore spot for the "Blue can everything because Blue" logical fallacy. When Green cards tutor better than Black cards, it's noted; when Blue cards do anything "non-Blue" better than other colors, it's noted but it just rubs a lot of people the wrong way, because even though WotC has more or less washed their hands of the past and aren't going to let "sins of the past" color their current thinking with Blue design, they still let the color do things that maybe it shouldn't because Blue is the color of hacking Magic: The Gathering to get it to do what it needs to do.

The only reason I can think of why the best White Knight ever is not Blue is becuase it is part of a cycle (like the Curses) so every colour gets one of these...

I am sort of hoping against hope that this is the case as well, because it's almost the only way that it even makes sense. Why else would Blue get such an efficient protection creature unless every color was getting an analog? Not that Black or Red is amazing with universal protection either; I mean the board state you create with a bunch of protection from opponent guys is just awkwardly non-interactive attacking, and I just don't quite think that they really want to take the game to that level of hurp durp just yet. I can't help but think though that if this exists in a cycle then the person who spoiled this is uber-trolling because surely they knew that a Blue hate-bear as a standalone would make people quibble.

[Koby]

I don't think the complaint is its playability, I think the complaint is "why in the living shit isn't this White"? I don't have to tell you that most Eternal players have a sore spot for the "Blue can everything because Blue" logical fallacy. When Green cards tutor better than Black cards, it's noted; when Blue cards do anything "non-Blue" better than other colors, it's noted but it just rubs a lot of people the wrong way, because even though WotC has more or less washed their hands of the past and aren't going to let "sins of the past" color their current thinking with Blue design, they still let the color do things that maybe it shouldn't because Blue is the color of hacking Magic: The Gathering to get it to do what it needs to do.

Basically this. When Blue does something non-Blue it's being Blue and hacking shit unfairly. When other colors do something outside their color-pie it's novel, because for the most part those colors are underpowered.

[GexxX]

The worst thing with this card is the lack of care. It doesn't care about the gamestate, the opponent or anything else. It doesn't even need to adapt like f.i. Morphling or Tarmogoyf. It doesn't require design like Delver (to some extend) or Nimble Mongoose. It doesn't even require a splash like Geist. I hope they just printed a giant middle finger on it, because thats what this creature feels like.

[GoblinZ]

what wotc really cares is using these fucking cards to fuck this game.

[Tombstalker]

Wow this thread degenerated quick! Its good but its not like its mental misstep. Besides SFM and fish hes a 3/3 for 3.

Now that said I am getting 4... just in case.

Edit- also I think it might have been more powerful in white.

[Sasan]

Wow this thread degenerated quick! Its good but its not like its mental misstep. Besides SFM and fish hes a 3/3 for 3.

Now that said I am getting 4... just in case.

Edit- also I think it might have been more powerful in white.

a 3/3 with landwalk for all colours, that can nearly not be destroyed and a 3/20 wall in one ... yeah very average card *sarcasm*

Come on even non-targetted removal does not work that good. How will Maverick, Jund, Goblins, DnT be ever able to remove that guy - ok the white creature decks can play wrath of god and harm theirselves and Jund can hope for Lilliana and a hopefully clear board besides that Merfolk. Otherwise: No chance for these decks to fight that creature. Especially in combination with Delver and on the play blue decks can out-clock the midrange decks easily now.

[Zombie]

Everyone that was involved in designing Commander 2013 and everyone that thinks this card is sensible at all should be shot in the face with guns and cannons.

FTFY, and agreed.

[nedleeds]

Awesome, and it doesn't target the player it's raping in the mouth.

[Tombstalker]

a 3/3 with landwalk for all colours, that can nearly not be destroyed and a 3/20 wall in one ... yeah very average card *sarcasm*

Lol no definitely not average. Its a great creature and very powerful, just saying. Not like emrakul cares or other combo or anything with evasion of similar or greater power when racing. I'll be trying to incorporate it somewhere but I mean for 1 mana more you get real progenitus and most people dont even play that.

Its also not uncounterable so when goyf is dodging daze this isnt.

[Dice_Box]

In a commander situation, its not that broken. After all its a one off and others can kill it. In legacy tho, its nuts. I mean Fish are going to go nuts pumping this thing and slaming it into people. Makes me glad I am only 50 buck off finishing Fish. Well I was, now this is going to add to the price.

[Sasan]

Lol no definitely not average. Its a great creature and very powerful, just saying. Not like emrakul cares or other combo or anything with evasion of similar or greater power when racing. I'll be trying to incorporate it somewhere but I mean for 1 mana more you get real progenitus and most people dont even play that.

Its also not uncounterable so when goyf is dodging daze this isnt.

Yes, this makes Daze a great card again. Daze lost some value in the Shaman meta but Daze will make a good comeback as well as the neglected REBs. But I really think that midrange creature decks will suffer a lot if a certain amount of tempo decks and control decks will play that guy. We can only hope that only Merfolk players sleeve this card into their decks.The format needs to stay healthy.

[Sasan]

The worst thing with this card is the lack of care. It doesn't care about the gamestate, the opponent or anything else. It doesn't even need to adapt like f.i. Morphling or Tarmogoyf. It doesn't require design like Delver (to some extend) or Nimble Mongoose. It doesn't even require a splash like Geist. I hope they just printed a giant middle finger on it, because thats what this creature feels like.

you are so right. We do not need to build decks around that card like we needed with Delver/Pyromancer/Stoneforge. As long as our mana curve and color we play affords it we can play that guy (if we are not combo players).

[Aggro_zombies]

This card is good, but I don't know that it's losing-our-shit good. Invisible Stalker has both of the two relevant parts of "protection from your opponent", costs one mana less, and has not been historically playable in the format. An extra mana for +2/+0 and a relevant creature type is fine and all, but this guy is basically vanilla besides that. For the same converted mana cost, you can get Clique (has a relevant triggered ability, evasion), Kira (protects your team, evasion), Geist (splits into two bodies in combat for extra damage), and that's just in blue. There's also Lingering Souls (four bodies reduces the impact of removal, all four have evasion), Knight (incredibly large, has a useful tutor ability) and a host of other creatures that are niche-playable.

I will say that it's amusing this card is in the Commander release because it's not really good in that format. It feels a lot like Flusterstorm: a real headscratcher within the context of its release, but an obvious plant for other formats.

[Valtrix]

This card is good, but I don't know that it's losing-our-shit good. Invisible Stalker has both of the two relevant parts of "protection from your opponent", costs one mana less, and has not been historically playable in the format. An extra mana for +2/+0 and a relevant creature type is fine and all, but this guy is basically vanilla besides that.

This is a terrible "comparison". The difference between 3 power and 1 is huge. That's a 6-7 turn clock compared to an 18+ one. Also, three power means you kill most things in the format. Secondly, hexproof is not even close to protection from your opponent. Did you read what that does? It means that they can't block with creatures they control, any source they have that would deal damage (creature damage, pyroclasm, etc.) doesn't hurt this guy either, on top of being untargetable. Huge, huge difference.

That said, I know this card will see some play, but it's difficult for me to say how much. It might be quite a bit, or it might not--It will probably take the format a little while to decide.

[Dice_Box]

Invisible Stalker does not have 3 power, the ability to block without taking damage, full immunity to burn sweepers and does not get buffed by a deck that's whole game plan is to do nothing but drop lords and break face.

Think about this, Merfolk just got a playable card that can hit ANYONE. Not just those with Islands.

[Zombie]

That also synergizes nicely with Phantasmal Image.

[Benjammn]

lol

All of this clamoring over "there needs to be eternal staples in Commander 2013" and I'm not surprised that one of them happens to be a little out-of-pie and too powerful. Scavenging Ooze wasn't a good experiment; that card is very nearly better than Tarmogoyf. I hated getting my first 2 for $30 a pop and then getting boned a year later when they printed them in M14. I'm convinced that us Legacy players didn't know what we wished for when we consider WOTC's track record on printing cards directly for eternal formats (looking at you, Mental Misstep). Please don't do shit like this anymore, WOTC. Just give us our 8 mana 7/7s.

It's nice that Merfolk gets a good bump, I guess. I'm trying to think if this card will get played in other decks...pairing this with SFM/Jitte seems pretty awesome and dumb at the same time. You guys thought Nimble Mongoose was bad.

[Gheizen64]

lol

All of this clamoring over "there needs to be eternal staples in Commander 2013" and I'm not surprised that one of them happens to be a little out-of-pie and too powerful. Scavenging Ooze wasn't a good experiment; that card is very nearly better than Tarmogoyf. I hated getting my first 2 for $30 a pop and then getting boned a year later when they printed them in M14. I'm convinced that us Legacy players didn't know what we wished for when we consider WOTC's track record on printing cards directly for eternal formats (looking at you, Mental Misstep). Please don't do shit like this anymore, WOTC. Just give us our 8 mana 7/7s.

It's nice that Merfolk gets a good bump, I guess. I'm trying to think if this card will get played in other decks...pairing this with SFM/Jitte seems pretty awesome and dumb at the same time. You guys thought Nimble Mongoose was bad.

Yeah you know, Staples that aren't uninteractive cards, but MAYBE new cards for red and black maybe? A new counterspell? A new LD spell efficient against non-basics? A new creature that need a bit of a buildaround?

What the fuck is this 3 mana emrakul. Cut of the same cloth, fuck you WotC and your shitty non-interactive designs.

This is a 3/1 creature that red can't remove with any of the card he has except apocalypse, what the hell. And we still didn't get a decent red aggressive creature in years. Have fun playing against this shit the next years and have to side infest and shit like that or play combo. Sigh.