@ door
Congratulations on your finish! And it's great to read your thoughts and insight behind your card choices.
You didn't play against any of the S&T based combo decks (Sneak and Show or Omni-tell). How do you feel about these matchups? and could you go over your boarding strategy?
I'm playing in a large tournament this weekend where I expect a lot of combo ( Storm, omni, sneak n show, elves) rug delver, punishing jund,some esper blade I have this list and wanted some input on it
4 savanna
4 windswept Heath
1 verdent
2 forest
1 plains
4 wasteland
1 dryad arbor
1 horizon canopy
2 cavern of souls
1 maze of ith
1 karakas
1 geaa cradle
1 sylvan library
4 green sun
2 jitte
4 swords to plowshare
4 noble
4 mom
4 knight
4 Thalia
1 teeg
2 pridemage
2 aven mind censor
1 scryb ranger
2 revoker
2 scavenging ooze
1 sylvan safekeeper
SB: 3 oring
4 canonist
2 path
2 rip 3 choke( maybe Armageddon?)
1 flex (bog, harmonic sliver,angel of dispar,linvala
Maverick for life
I wouldn't be too keen to run Maverick in such a meta. Those combo match-ups are mostly terrible (Storm when they win the dice roll, Omni and Elves are horrible, Sneak and Show is ok unless they get one of those nut hands) and Punishing Jund is going to ruin you as well. You have been warned.Originally Posted by blackdiamonds
2 Cavern of Souls seems excessive, especially if you want to to cast stuff like Teeg or Pridemage. Maybe you should run another fetch instead.
You're quite heavy on combo, so I would also recommend a second Teeg in the MD.
Since you run Cradle, I would try to fit in a Sigarda as well. She's a huge bomb and if you're up against DRS, KotR isn't that hot as GSZ target.
Personally, I'm a huge fan of Bog in the sideboard.
4 Canonists and 3 O-Rings in the board seem excessive. I would cut two Canonists and at least one O-Ring for 2 E-Tutors and a Tormod's Crypt.
I took Mav to Cleveland this weekend and my first 4 rounds were Lands w/ P-Fire, Punishing Jund, Punishing Nic Fit, and Goblins. It was like my worst nightmare realized.
Someone posted somewhere he did some initial testing with a full playset of Elvish Spirit Guide some time ago.
Maybe it's just me being impatient, but against quite a few archetypes out there Maverick feels to slow. So I played about 20 games with ESG and came to the conclusion that she deserves further testing.
Enabling turn_1 Thalias, SFMs, Gaddocks, Canonists, Vial+MoR, Safekeeper+Wayfarer, Turn 1 Bird+Mother-->turn 2 protected KotR, etc. felt actually quite powerful. Needless to mention her bear body is underwhelming, which is why I recommend maxing out on SFMs and thus increasing the chance to be able to pimp her via equipment if you draw her in the mid/late game.
Has anyone given her a spin? What were your findings?
Last edited by klaus; 10-10-2013 at 04:34 AM.
You are just telling the best case scenarios and i see only the bad ones. It is one time "consumable" mana source which means you got 1 card less than your opponent and please dont talk about its body, vanilla 2/2.. Imagine you use this to cast 2nd turn KotR and it gets fowed or dazed, you are royally screwed. Against aggro decks the card advantage is the key, not the fact that you have something fast in the table. I mean compare this to a BoB, well im not even gonna do it.. And as for the early hate against combo decks, if you play 1st turn hatebear with this it again means that you have 1 card less and it couldve been another hatebear and in my experience usually how i win combos is to have either turn 1 discard followed by hatebear or 2 x hatebears. Cause they can easily kill 1 hatebear.
You make it look like a bad Lotus Petal, while its vanilla body can indeed become a threat when equipped. As I mentioned before, ideally the SFM count would have to be upped +1/+2 to pimp those midgame 2/2ers more reliably.
It's funny how you bring up Daze as a counter argument, since ESG is awesome at dodging these.
Being able to counter strike your Aggro opponent with a Jitted critter one turn earlier can actually make the difference. You have to acknowledge that the MtG cosm is not as black and white as you want to make it appear. Maverick is a super flexible deck and can adjust to the game better than many archetypes.
Being able to disrupt your Combo opponent via discard on turn is beneficial, however I had a straight GW list in mind when posting my thoughts on ESG - my bad: should have specified. One of the main reasons I started testing ESG is that hating combo on turn 2 (especially when on the draw) can be too late.
Let's be realistic here:
ESG is only worth testing in pure GW since combo can stomp it on the play before it can get any hatebear online. And that happens quite alot. Since GW Maverick has no access to T1 discard, it might a possible workaround, even if it isn't ideal.
Of course it's an underwhelming draw later on, but the main problem I could see with it is the card disadvantage.
As far as running into Daze is concerned, if you misplay it like that, you deserve to lose. It actually counters Daze if played correctly.
In the end, ESG might not be worth it, but testing can't hurt, can it?
PS:
On a not so serious note if one wants to be flashy: Chancellor of the Tangle + Fauna Shamans for hilarity. Makes me wish SotF wasn't banned.
Went 3-3 at the Gpt in La. Beat dredge, maverick, and esper blade. Lost to tin fins, painters servant, and goblins
I'm heavily leaning back to Maverick in recent weeks. Part of it is because I'm sick of these motherfucking Delvers messin up my tournaments. Have y'all seen tge top 16 from Milwaukee? Six Delver decks in the T9-16. Ridiculous!
What has been people's impressions with the black splashed Maverick for DRS?
Has Thoughtseize proved useful vs Combo? Does it matter vs Control?
How shaky has the mana base been?
Which Planeswalker is the best in the main? Which planeswalkers have been best post board? One or two?
Has reliance on KotR been sidelined?
Is RIP worth including if it shuts off Knight and DRS?
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
I went 4-2 at Jupiter I think I played pretty well I like the list and will tune it for GP DC
[DECK]
4 savannah
4 windswept Heath
2 misty rainforest
4 wasteland
1 plains
1 cavern
1 horizon canopy
1 maze of ith
1 gaeas cradle
2 forest
1 karakas
1 elspeth knight errent
4 swords
4 gsz
1 sylvan
1 jitte
1 batter skull
1 sword of fire and ice
4 noble
4 knight
4 mom
4 Thalia
2 sfm
1 sigarda
1 teeg
2 pridemage
1 scryb ranger
2 ooze
SB
2 enlighten tutor
1 oring
1 angel of dispar
1 canonist
1 dragons claw
1 harmonic sliver
1 crypt
1 rip
1 linvala
1 thorn of amathyst
1 revoker
1 jitte
1 graffdiggets cage
1 path
[/DECK]
R1 mana less dredge 2-0
R2 maverick 0-2
R3 pyromancer opposition 2-1
R4 maverick 2-0
R5 TES 0-2
R6 TES 2-0(
Over all is cut it to 61 and put more anti storm cards in SB
Maverick for life
Since the MODO metagame still sucks for Maverick, I'm currently experimenting with a modified list of Fabian Görzgen's GP list:
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
2 Taiga
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Plateau
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Mother of Runes
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Punishing Fire
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Stony Silence
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
PF is for fighting off Jund, BUG Shardless and Planeswalkers. Debateable - could be and Abrupt Decay/Bob package as well since GWb would have a more stable mana base.
Double Teeg + third in the board is for Miracles and various combo decks. Safekeeper is there to seal the deal vs. Miracles and other control decks.
Elspeth and Garruk are for the fair match-ups like Jund, BUG and Miracles. Xenagos in the board might be interesting, too, or Sorin, Lord of Innistrad if I go for GWb.
Needle over Revoker because creature removal sucks, especially against Miracles.
Grafdigger's Cage is against GY decks and Elves.
Grip against Miracles and other stuff you're going to hate to see, like Painter. Has been pretty good so far.
Extraction against PF, super-fast GY decks and random combo.
I'm not sold on Stony Silence and E-Plague in the board yet and need to see them in action first to make a verdict on them. I'm also not really comfortable with the lack of fast anti-storm answers and MD Bog is debateable.
Personally, I like the black splash. DRS provides lots of utility and T1 discard is pretty relevant vs combo.
The manabase is pretty stable.
Can't really answer the PW question since I only recently bought a Garruk.
You can't rely on KotR as your main threat anymore since RiP and especially DRS makes her his bitch. RiP also hurts, so including it yourself is a bad idea. I like a 3/2 split between KotR and Ooze as main threats with Sigarda as GSZ target (totally doable since the GWb build can afford to run Cradle).
I sleeved up a GWb list with bobs and deathrites and found the mana wanting. There's a few turn 1 plays that you want to make with a turn 2 followup:
Turn 1 mom, mana dork, GSZ
Turn 2 bob, thalia, teeg, mana dork (if the turn 1 play was mom)
All of this while being aware of Wasteland (and now blood moon, I guess). Playing Scrubland is really bad even though it enables turn 1 mom and turn 2 bob but it doesn't cast any green spells, which the deck is based around. In the same vein, Bayou can't cast Mom on turn 1.
If your metagame has a minimal number of wastelands and blood moons then you can probably afford to be greedy. I question whether or not black is REALLY needed. Why not another Sylvan Library or another way to get card advantage such as with Elspeth or little Garruk?
I'm back to my usual GW(u) build.
♀
I'm meh on the black splash for DRS. While it gives you additional reach, lifegain, and mild mana stability, I've always preferred a more stable initial manabase versus the reach/answers that access to another color gives you. That said, I haven't tested extensively with a solid black splash, but I feel like a tuned G/W list is just as good against combo as a G/W/B list would be.
Elspeth is best in the main for straight G/W. Relentless is probably better for trip-color builds. I've considered boarding a second elspeth, but one feels like enough for most metas. I've toyed around with Primal Hunter out of the board in G/W with Cradle, and he's such a house. If you're anywhere close to an even board, he'll either stall and help you stabilize puking out 3/3's, or he'll let you bury them in card advantage if you have a huge knight or ooze out. I think having access to two postboard is good for the control/midrange matchups. Primal Hunter especially since his beasts survive Punishing against Jund, Shardless against BUG, and will trade for most creatures that you will encounter.
I think KoTR is still a really good card, but she's not the huge beatstick she used to be. I wouldn't count on finishing games with a 10/10+ knight smashing through with the same regularity as in the pre-DRS/RiP era. She's a lot more useful for utility, and I think ooze is one of the deck's main beatsticks now, as he multitasks shutting of DRS/shrinking goyfs while getting huge at the same time.
RiP is totally worth it. Opposing DRS can be a huge problem for a deck with only 4-5 point removal spells, and being able to shut them off with additional splash hate against some of the format's combo decks (Reanimator, Fins, Dredge, Storm) and fair decks (RUG/Aggro Loam/Jund/Shardless) is enormous. If you really are pressed for spots while boarding, you can side out knights in favor of RiPs, but I don't think there's anything wrong with having both.
"Swiggety Swagtusk, Here comes the Thragtusk!""The last top 8 slot went to the winner of that Death and Taxes mirror, or as I like to call it, the White Supremacy Mirror.
In response to "What's the best replacement for Force of Will?"
To be fair, you don't run a black splash because DRS is a funny guy, but because most fast combo will assrape you on T2 if they win the dice roll, hence the need of T1 discard because your T2 bears won't matter if you're already dead.
I'm interested how exactly you plan to survive that with GW, except hoping for a combo-light meta or winning the dice roll. Do you run Leyline of Sanctity or Mindbreak Trap in the board?
RiP works in KotR-light builds, but Ooze also gets hit by it, so calling it the main beatstick now is a bit of overstatement. There are still lots of creature-light decks out there and some just don't put anything into the GY to feed it, like Miracles.
The black splash has been working pretty great for me so far. The reach of DRS, options of Abrupt Decay or Thoughtseize MB, and having access to more SB hate like Engineered Plague and Zealous Persecution in the SB have all proven useful so far. Having a lower amount of X/1s to soften the Golgari Charm blowout is relevant as well. Even though DRS blocking Lackey is a meme at this point, Goblins has been becoming more popular in recent months.
Thoughtseize definitely feels important to live long enough to get hatebears online. As far as control goes, I've only brought them in to replace some of the dead cards and it's been working pretty well. Mostly only applies to Miracles though.
Only mana problems I've ran into is not being able to use DRS for ramping. Some combination of not having fetches in hand, them holding up a fetch until my EOT, quickly running out of lands, or even opposing DRS have been the most common scenarios.
My 75 now only has 1 and it's a Garruk Relentless in the side. Fits the mana base better, kills problematic creatures like Baleful Strix or Painter's Servant, defends itself through the token army better, shuts down most midrange decks with the flipped token army, and can tutor up finishers to end the grindy games. Jumping Knights just isn't enough for me as long as Strix is everywhere.
I've found KOTR to be even more important as far as sending creatures into battle goes. Dropping my exalted creatures from 6 to 3 has made my bears become a lot less intimidating.
RIP just doesn't feel as necessary with DRS being able to nail an important card in the same timeframe. Ooze and Bojuka Bog/Crypt are enough against decks like Loam, Punishing Jund, and RUG Delver.
I have done some semi-extensive testing with Elvis Spirit Guide (about 50 games) over the past week or so.
..and I've fallen madly in love with her. I ain't shittin ya: we're beyond dating at this point - yes, you heard me right: she proposed and I said yes.
At first I was like: I hate losing to Oops-I-Win.decs and included her to power out hate bears on turn 1, which indeed worked out nicely, so we went for dinner quite frequently and hung out a bit more and soon I realized she's more than just a fling. Turns out T1 Thalia is a beast against numerous archetypes, gotta love the synergy with Wayfarer too and going to town with Jitte/SoFI one full turn earlier is nothing to sneeze at - trust me, the look on my opponents' faces was priceless everytime an equipped dude comes rushing in (pun intended) - Elvis helped me become the beatdown against archetypes against whom GW Maverick commonly plays the control part.
It's true, the Faerie Queen of Rock'n'Roll means card disadvantage, however Maverick can easily get away with that due to the sheer amount of C/A spells: SFM, Revoker, SoFI, Jitte, Wayfarer, KotR, Mother/Safekeeper (oftentimes 2for1s), and Gaddock.
As suggested earlier I upped the SFM count to employ a higher equipment density making up for her lameness after the early game.
Here's my current list for reference:
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Mother of Runes
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Weathered Wayfarer
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Vial
4 Windswept Heath
4 Savannah
1 Plains
1 Forest
2 Karakas
4 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Pithing Needle
1 Krosan Grip
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 SoLaS
I've actually tested something similar, and it works out quite nicely. At the very least the guides pick up equipment.
@klaus what's the reason you dont run any Scavenging Oozes? I saw another similar list that top 8'd that too didn't have any Oozes MB nor SB. How do you win against graveyard decks?
He has 6 ways to tutor for the bog in the mainboard (wayfarer and knight), as well as the extractions in the side. The coolest thing about his particular build is that it forgoes the zenith garbage all-together.
<3 you Klaus, finally someone that tests things to determine whether or not they like them, as opposed to just doing whatever some other guys says.
I had actually cut revokers to keep zeniths in, although since you cut arbor, the card seems to get worse and worse. I think I actually like revokers and the second canopy over an arbor and the zeniths.
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