I'm looking to buy a Dredge deck; however, I don't have $400 to drop of LEDs at the moment. (Yes, I realize that the resulting deck will be suboptimal - however, things like bills and car payments need to come first.)
After playing a bit on Cockatrice my opinion is that the 60 should contain 0 Dread Returns and (obviously) 0 reanimation targets. The SB should have 2-3 Dread Returns, 2 Ionas, and 2 Elesh Norns. If either of those opinions are incorrect, please let me know.
Does anybody have any suggestions on a 75 that *could* perform decently, and easily switch over to a standard LED build after I have the disposable income?
when I didin't had the LEDs I used 3 firestorm and an fourth breaktrough instead, and my sideboard was:Originally Posted by Pandemic21
1- elesh norn grand cenobite
1- Iona shield of Emeria
1- ray of revelation
2- ancient grudge
2- Dread return
2- Ashen ghoul
3- thoughtseize
3- chain of vapor
It was decent at the time but I will admit that firestorm is a SB card and not a main deck one, and can be a dead draw sometimes (mainly against decks that run no creatures at all such as storm or belcher) but IMO it's the best repleacement for LED at the time, try it out! and good luck with the deck mate!
So i finally caved in and got some LED's
Can someone tell me how this should effect my sideboard? My current sideboard looks like this (without LED's):
Sideboard (15)
1x Ashen Rider
2x Chain of Vapor
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4x Firestorm
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
4x Nature's Claim
2x Pithing Needle
Also, if possible, please explain why and when the cards are needed
Another thing also. What is the reason for Flayer as DR target instead of Zealot/Griselbrand (My current 'package')?
Thanks in advance! :)
Flayer + 2 DR + Troll (or 2nd Flayer if you are playing two) allows you to kill your opponent on the spot without having to rely on attacking with your horde of zombies. You reanimate Flayer (dome opponent for 4), then reanimate Troll (you can sac Flayer for DR, doming opponent for additional 5). Troll enters the battefield, dome opponent for millions and win.
I got that part :) But i'm just not sure if it is better (i.e. faster) than Zealot/Griselbrand? Which situations is it that hinders our attack?
Also, do you have any recommendations for my sideboard?
You need to get enough zombies for the zealot rush to be lethal, with flayer you can kill with only one bridge in the graveyard. Flayer also works if opponent has something like Elephant Grass or Peacekeeper in play.
As for the sideboard, if you want extra help with the reanimation plan and battling against Surgical Extractions, I recommend trying out either Nether Shadow or Ashen Ghoul. I am at work so cannot write long posts, might write more in the evening if I have time. HammafistRoob had a good looking sideboard posted with commentary a couple of pages back.
Okay.. I'm convinced ^^
How does this look then (both Main and SB):
Creature (23)
2x Flayer of the Hatebound
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
3x Golgari Thug
3x Ichorid
4x Narcomoeba
3x Putrid Imp
4x Stinkweed Imp
Enchantment (4)
4x Bridge from Below
Artifact (4)
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
Sorcery (17)
3x Breakthrough
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Careful Study
2x Dread Return
4x Faithless Looting
Land (12)
4x Cephalid Coliseum
4x City of Brass
4x Gemstone Mine
Sideboard (15)
1x Ancient Grudge
3x Chain of Vapor
1x Dread Return
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3x Firestorm
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
2x Nether Shadow
3x Thoughtseize
If you like the Dread return package the deck is really good,, but I would go - 1 flayer of the hatebound and + 1 rainbow land (tarnished citadel or undiscovered paradise) for added consistency (less mulligans), your sideboard is really good, I like it a lot
Has anyone here tried Forsaken City recently? The only person I know of that has tried them is Parcher and that was over a year ago. It has the same awkward drawback of undiscovered paradise in that it sometimes can't be used for a turn 2 Coliseum activation. My first thought is that it's probably bad, but Citadel hurts a lot when you're trying to race Delver+ disruption.
About sideboarding, I don't believe I've seen an optimal sideboard yet. Every card at our disposal either slows us down or is to narrow for my liking. Where's my Leyline of the Grave wizards?
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It's painfully slow though, and having two lands after a mull or two is pretty hard. If it was one mana, it'd be borderline broken in this deck.
Team Hammafist-We don't take kindly to those who don't take kindly."Got any trade boogas?"
I'd agree with this advice for your list, you only actually need one dread return target in your main if you run it at all, the deck is still a a walking dead overrunning machine. 1 flayer and 2 dread returns keep the consistency at a level where both plans are viable and provides you a mide game moment where you say "oh, i win now"
the only diff between your main and mine is that i run three lootings instead of four and four putrid imps instead of three, i do that only since i'd rather dredge into looting then have it in my hand with a cephalid coliseum as my only land but this choice is stirctly personal preference.
i think you can cut the thir dread return in your board and ad the fourth breakthrough for your combo matchups, i've only ever wanted two and your deck is fast enough to get to one if your boading into either elesh or iona. i've never tested thoughtseize in the baord so i can't comment on that, but i love nether shadow in the board
I will definitely cut the third DR in the SB. On Nether Shadow, i've actually not tried them yet, just put them in there on a friends advice. But i've yet to figure out which MU's they are going in against :D
Dredge's sideboard is a hard matter to discuss as we don't build our sideboards like any other deck in the format does.
I've seen some crazy stuff like Stiffle and ground seal in some sideboards and the ppl who used them could swear they worked fine, I've never tested them myself but I don't think they will be any good in dredge, normaly dredge sideboard is composed of:
Extra parts of the deck: It's normal to find the fourth or third piece of breaktrough, Ichorid or cabal therapy sitting in the board for especifc matchups
Dread return/ DR targets: Ppl who don't use dread return main can use then as a plan B in the sideboard and those who use it main deck often have some extra targets in the board
Anti hate: This varies from player to player, many don't even use anti hate at all, and others like me likes to have some anti hate to combat the increasing "dredge hosers", normal pieces of anti hate are:
Pithing needle (permanent)
Nature's claim (artifacts and enchantments)
Ancient grudge (Artifacts, has flashback)
Ray of revelation ( Enchantments, has flashback)
Ingot Chewer ( Artifacts, dodges chalice and spell pierce among others)
Wispmare ( enchantments, dodges chalice and spell pierce among others)
Chain of Vapor ( any nonland permanent,but it can be chained back)
Disruption Thoughtseize, duress and unmask can make some appearances should the player need a proative answer to hate or combo
Removal to take out scaveging ooze and DR shaman, normally firestorm fills the slot but darkblast can show up too to destroy a sick shaman or X/1 creatures
extra creatures Ashen ghoul and nether shadow can fill the slot should surgical extraction/ extirpate threatens to take all your recursive creatures away from you, they also compliment the Dread return plan.
grave hate It's normal to dredge players to dedicate some slots in the sb for grave hate, it normally varies from light hate ( purify the grave, memory's journey) to Leyline of the void
The post was long but it's normally the pattern I see when searching for dredge lists from recent top 8s.
I'm well aware of what pieces people have used, I just question the effectiveness of them is all. Diluting the deck by siding in a bunch of anti-hate has never really worked out for me, and siding in only 4 pieces doesn't really get you anywhere consistently.
Also, somebody said they play 3 Lootings? That is definitely not correct, having 8 cards that draw and discard is undoubtedly the way to go. Pimp is fine, but the only thing he does is discard, and feed Ichorids, but I've never had a problem feeding them with 3 or 2 Pimps. Even when I had no Imps main, very rarely did I have trouble bringing back Ichorids. Your focus shouldn't be on bringing stuff back, it should be on getting to that point in the first place, i.e dredging a fuckton of cards.
Team Hammafist-We don't take kindly to those who don't take kindly."Got any trade boogas?"
putrid imp does that by putting dredgers in your graveyard, acting as a body to sac to cabal therapy, and allows you to play around gravehate... so saying his only focus in the deck is to bring back ichorid is wrong. and saying his only use is to discard is kinda redundant ... being able to discard our hand is actually a pretty relevant ability ... i'd rather use ichorid to set up a careful study or breakthrough then use a careful study to put my dredgers in the yard... especially when the goal is to dredge a fuckton of cards since you've effectively saved your draw spell to dredge.
got your point, but draw spells are the premier targets for discard and counterspells,and Pimp is horrible in multiples (draw spells on the other hand are awsome), but you definitely got a good point, Pimp can work well in the graveyard (ichorid food) is cabal therapy food and is a repetitive discard outlet and beater, I wouldn't run any less than 3.
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I agree about Dread Return being a matter of opinion > Quadlaser works fine without them after all.
For me, before I got the LED's, I tested a few different options, including Tirless Tribe, Street Wraith & Gitaxian Probe.
All three had merit, although Street Wraith being an uncounterable cycle/Dredge had a slight edge I think, considering it works well with Ichorid also.
Regarding fighting hate;
I find this is very opinionated, and since we're all facing a variety of different hate depending on where you are, player preference and of course what decks are popular around you;
I don't think there will ever be an *optimal* jack-of-all-trades sideboard. Ever.
While this is true, when you compare the recent results of the deck ( the one using the same list, or similar list) it's visible that we are getting somewhere of a pattern in our sideboards. I still belive that there's a card in this enormous pool that will solve some of our problems but we didn't found it yet
BTW we are back in DTB! I don't know if this is good for us tough, but it's a sign that all this hate isn't pushing the deck back!
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