Without Wastelands, 16 lands seems fine to me.
I feel the Clout is pretty terrible though. I guess that should be one additional guy and one additional burn.
I have been playing pretty similar list with 17 lands for long time, you occassionally get 0 landers, so I have been feeling like not going to 16.
Clout is fine as long as there is no Liliana in your near future, you just have to draw them into same hand with Delver or Nivmagus, since they are not very nice topdecks late in game, I made top8 of Finlands biggest Legacy tournament with two Clouts, but have been riding without them since and being playing Diverts on side because they do more things and flip delvers. Not gonna start about mising away games where I need two damage and topdeck a grim Lavamancer in the hand with to this point totally useless Clout and haste Mancer for win, because that's just not real life.
Also playing two maindeck stifles for keeping people at their toes and stifling all kind of important things like Liliana -2 or Mystic Triggers. Cannot say that if I have big Magus beating and stifling their second turn fetch means postponing Decay & Liliana by full turns that I won't do that too.
Grats for Top16 placing with Nivmagus.
Cheers
Jani
I've gotten wrecked by Clout so many times I'm convinced it's great.
LOL I have never had Kendrick wreck me with Clout...
All it has done is pitch to Force against me although given my addiction to combo (and sneak and show as of late) what else would it likely do?
Either way congrats to Kendrick.
Well no shit; it's not meant to beat sneak and show..
LOL I know. Either way it makes me smirk every time it pitches to Force.
I am considering going UR delver to a tourny tonight, but im not incredibly experienced with the deck, so I would appreciate any suggestions or help you guys might have:
MD
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Brainstorm
2 Chain Lightning
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Ponder
2 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
4 Daze
2 Price of Progress
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Force of Will
SB
2 Electrickery
2 Pyroblast
3 Relic of Progenitus
1 Price of Progress
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Submerge
Vortex is for griselbrands, jittes, batterskulls.
Electrickery I am not sure about, but would help against elves and tokens where opponent have more dudes than I remove.
PoP is awesome and I like having a 3rd for extra damage against UWR delver, etc
Relic for RUG with Goyfs and Mongoose especially.
I am very fond of Zoo but have been having trouble everytime I face combo or miracles, so I was thinking that the fast damage of UR delver and supportive counterspells would be better for these matches.
Thanks!
Hello, everyone. It was me, who piloted this deck to the finals in Milano, hope it is not too late for a small summary.Originally Posted by FANAttIC
I got pretty lucky in match-ups, as I played against blue decks and combo mostly - 2 Merfok, 1 BUG Agent, 1 BUG Aggro, 3 Storm combo (one loss), 1 RUG Pyromancer and 1 Solidarity, the other decks were Mono-R stompy and Jund. The worst match-ups for this build are probably Death and Taxes, Miracles and Jund decks.
Before Ovino I playtested this deck heavily, here are few things I want to mention based upon my experience:
1. The removal pakage is fine, though it may seem reasonable to add Chain Lightnings instead of Probes. I decided to leave Probes for the Ovino as I expected a lot of combodecks. For the creature matches I left three Grim Lavamancer (those small wizards are really good right now with all that Shamans, Mystics, Strixes, Delvers e.t.c running around) and hoped it would be enough. I don't like Thunderous Wrath as it usually sits in a hand doing nothing until you topdeck a brainstorm or die trying.
2. Goblin Guide is probably the weakest card in here, but this deck really needs a fast cheap creature (delvers and mancers are not enough) to deliver damage before the middlegame. I tried almost all the possible variants during tests and left guides as a result. Nivmagus Elemental has to be played with Flusterstorm to become good (and I don't like Flusterstorms as it does not counter Walkers and other stuff), Vexing Devil can not be trusted as it becomes creature or burn depending on your opponent choice, Cosi's Trickster is just not that good. I was worried about Goblin Guide/Wasteland/Stifle problem, but it is the necessary evil for extra haste damage. And it does not punish you that bad because the deck can kill very quickly.
3. I also playtested Grixis builds with Dark Confidant, but it is way slower and can be damaged easily with opponent's Wastelands. The deck I played is wasteproof with 2 basics and 4 stifles to protect the manabase. It also sometimes shows very highspeed hands with multiply guides and delvers during first three turns easing extra land drawback.
4. I can not play Snapcaster Mage with 18 lands (taking into account wastelands) and grim lavamancers. Snapcasters are good in traditional UR Delver lists, which run Price of Progress and have more stable manabase. Those lists however are not good against Mirracles, while list with Stifles can better struggle against it (though match-up against Mirracles is still very tough).
5. Speaking about sideboard - one of the four blasts can easily be cut out to add extra card against bad match-ups (third Electrickery against D&T/Maverick, Sulfuric Vortex/Pithing Needle against Mirracles or something else). Other that that I do not know what to cut, all other cards look solid to me.
Anyway the deck is really good in correct meta and I enjoyed it a lot during testing and Ovino tournament (hope the video replays of games in top8 - top4 will be available soon).
All that is written above is my own opinion based upon the experience I got with this deck.
Vladimir
I think that wasteland/stifle and price of progress can not coexist because they are part of different philosophies of play.
In relation to this I play two different lists:
1) Very similar a Vladimir's list
UR Tempyro
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Island
1 Mountain
3 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
3 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
3 Gitaxian Probe
3 Ponder
Sideboard
2 Electrickery
1 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Smash to Smithereens
3 Submerge
2) Hot Delver
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Flooded Strand
2 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Goblin Guide
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
2 Fireblast
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Price of Progress
2 Spell Pierce
3 Chain Lightning
3 Ponder
Sideboard
3 Flusterstorm
1 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Surgical Extraction
What do you think?
I like the last list.
How is fireblast working out for you? Im not sure whether to run it or thund. wrath or both. (atm 1 wrath, 2 fireblast).
I like having wrath as they almost always can take care of a goyf that is in the way.
I use fireblast as finisher with Pop. I add 2 mana, sacrifice 2 lands and I play a fireblast. than I play pop whit a mana added.. is possible to make 8-10 deals...
Inviato dal mio GT-S7500 con Tapatalk 2
Running 18 lands or?
yes 18 lands.. 10 fetch, 4 base land and 4 duals
Inviato dal mio GT-S7500 con Tapatalk 2
Last night I took these 75 to a 16man double-fee event:
1 Arid Mesa
1 Flooded Strand
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
4 Brainstorm
2 Chain Lightning
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Ponder
2 Spell Pierce
4 Daze
2 Price of Progress
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Force of Will
1 Fireblast
2 Thunderous Wrath
2 Electrickery
2 Flusterstorm
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Smash to Smithereens
2 Sulfuric Vortex
2 Submerge
R1 reanimator
G1 i have early GG and I think delver. I counter his attempt to reanimate. G2 I cast early sulfuric vortex and it beats him down quickly alongside delver and all my burn.
1-0
R2 Jund
having played jund a while I know this deck quite well. I summon early pressure and fireblast make quick work of him. G2 he gets down early deathrite and goyfs and I have to trade my dudes to them. Deathrite was a pain, but i failed to draw bolt or such. G3 I remember him playing t1 deathrite, I ponder, and see second daze and submerge and spell pierce. I keep submerge and puts his dude on top (great feeling right there!). He relays it and says go. Im 1000 years to find creatures but eventually get out grim lavamancer and goblin guide. At some point I miracle into wrath, then go. He casts 3rd goyf attacks with two and I have to block, block and shoot with Grim. Then fireblast him to death.
2-0
R3 UWR
This matchup is a nightmare?! I go double delver and they get bolt+sword. He wastes me and I cant come back. I think i won G2 with dudes. G3 i keep killer red hand with 1 mountain, ponder and snap. shouldn't have.. I never draw another land and GG just goes farming..
2-1
R4 Storm
G1 he is down to 2 and suddenly makes 14 goblins. I miss a bolt here. G2 i go turn 1 delver and he goes turn one kill.. Had no force in hand. Actually Ad nauseam got him down to 1 without having any petals to generate mana (he already played land) so has to continue digging. The next card is a Lotus Petal!!
2-2
R5 OmniShow
I try and counter he he has more counters than me and kills with grape shot. G2 I got him down to 9 with delver and triple bolt him but he counters one and emrakul shows up.
2-3
So great start, but luck suddenly turned. But I had some great plays which I learned a lot from. MVP was fireblast and wrath.
Im thinking of going 2/2 with these by cutting 1 snapcaster as they often just sat in my hand looking slow.
Thanks for reading.
Is this the sturdy 3 drop we've all been waiting for?
Count me out. I don't want a 3 drop.
Re: Eldritch Moon and Emrakul
Neffy: nice list, too bad you couldn't finish off the Storm.deck though. Always frustrating these MUs when they are potentially dead on bolt but you don't have it.
Regarding Patriot, the MU is tough, it's true, but imho UR Delver is better: You have more burn spells than him, even to more counterspells and if you manage to counter Geist, his means of victory are really slower than you. Plus PoP is quite often a huge threat to him (playing Tundras, Volc and Plateaux... he's exposed to take a lot on the first PoP coming or to waste himself). True thing though, Stifle and Wastelands are the things to be careful about when playing against this deck.
About the Nemesis, I don't think UR Delver wants this kind of creature. CCM3 is already a pain and if any, for this price, I'd rather play Clique over this one (despite its own awesomeness, that is).
m2c
Yes that was a pain in the a. Even his gobbos wasnt a problem for one turn for me to draw something, but just couldnt. The geist killed me game one. I tried to block one with GG, but he just plays another one second main.. I also guess storm shouldnt be that hard?Neffy: nice list, too bad you couldn't finish off the Storm.deck though. Always frustrating these MUs when they are potentially dead on bolt but you don't have it.
Regarding Patriot, the MU is tough, it's true, but imho UR Delver is better: You have more burn spells than him, even to more counterspells and if you manage to counter Geist, his means of victory are really slower than you. Plus PoP is quite often a huge threat to him (playing Tundras, Volc and Plateaux... he's exposed to take a lot on the first PoP coming or to waste himself). True thing though, Stifle and Wastelands are the things to be careful about when playing against this deck.
About the Nemesis, I don't think UR Delver wants this kind of creature. CCM3 is already a pain and if any, for this price, I'd rather play Clique over this one (despite its own awesomeness, that is).
m2c
UR Delver lacks a resilient creature like Nimble Mongoose, so I wouldn't dismiss True-Identity-Nemesis so easily, despite it being a 3-Drop. Sure, it works better in a Blade-Shell (UW/r is going to be nuts), but even as an nearly unkillable 3/1 it's going to win you lots of games. Don't forget it's unblockable.
It sure as hell needs testing and I wouldn't be surprised if black decks start packing (more) engineered plagues.
For those playing Young Pyromancer and/or Nivmagus Elemental, have you considered Ensnare against creature matchups? It's a "free" spell that lets you tap all creatures during your opponent's beginning combat phase (or EOT if you are not worried about his attack, but are worried he will play creatures post-combat). It generates Elemental tokens, and adds to Storm to play a big Flusterstorm later during his turn to boost your Elemental. You can then attack with all your creatures while your opponent's creatures are tapped out.
You can also play it for free and eat it with Nivmagus if you don't need the tap effect, generating tokens in the process.
It's also great in response to a Wasteland, or to bounce back non-basic lands before a lethal Price of Progress.
Credit to David Gearhart and his friends for the tech: http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...with_davi.html
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